Jump to content

No-shows on site


Recommended Posts

The CMC opened up their booking system a few days ago for May 2022, some sites are now already booked solid for that month.

Stay safe - Griff.  :ph34r:

Wheels at the front Green Oval Towing Machine

Wheels at the back Bessacarr 845

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 60
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

23 minutes ago, Griff said:

The CMC opened up their booking system a few days ago for May 2022, some sites are now already booked solid for that month.

 

If the sites end up fully populated during those times then (as a business) the CMHC have no problems, they are obviously doing something "right" to attract the customers.  If, however (as per the intentions of the original post) the sites end up with a significant number of "no-shows" then they clearly have an issue that needs addressing.

 

I have no idea as to how prevalent this problem is across both clubs, but the feedback comments relating to the Castleton site were an eye-opener.

 

I think it'll be another couple of years before the caravan-boom will start to fall back down to where it was pre-Covid.

2018 Volvo V90 and 2018 Swift Sprite Quattro EB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, JCCD said:

I once had to cancel on the day of arrival, due to vehicle fault. I cancelled the booking online, and to be polite I rang the site to tell them, and apologised. The warden was very snotty with me, and it did at the time make me think that if I ever had to cancel at short notice again, I probably wouldn't bother ringing the site to inform them. In fact the way they spoke to me made me wish I hadn't even bothered to make the online booking cancellation.

I too have experienced a similar response from some site owners, site wardens etc., thankfully they are few and far between and the majority are friendly and understanding people. I have a contact list for sites we like to visit, and over a lifetime of camping and caravanning we've only blacklisted a couple of sites as places to be avoided, compared with the huge number that remain on the wish list.

 

10 hours ago, P101 said:

. . . now block book en-mass and cancel nearer the time as plans firm up. Always greater than 72 hours of course.

Sadly that's the ONLY way to book stays spanning a weekend...

9 hours ago, JCCD said:

That's exactly what I do, make lots of bookings that I intend to arrive at, and then cancel any nearer the time that I discover I can't get to.

I have to say in all honestly I could not do that with a clear conscience, and what is happening is a clear argument in itself for having a non-returnable deposit system.

Gordon 

 

Fourwinds Hurricane 31D Motorhome. Also MGTF135 1. 8i Roadster (fun) & Volvo V70 3.2Ltr LPG (everyday car)
Unless otherwise stated, my posts will be my personal thoughts and have the same standing as any other member of Caravan and Motorhome Talk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that with the CMC   as we pay the membership fee  and as it is a club  we pay for the privilege of not having to pay a deposit, which I will say  came in very handy with the covid situation although  I don't abuse it .   I believe things will get back to 'normal'  next year when foreign holidays are allowed again  and people get rid of the caravans they have purchased in the last year or so.  

47 minutes ago, Griff said:

The CMC opened up their booking system a few days ago for May 2022, some sites are now already booked solid for that month.

to save me looking, which sites are booked solid ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

The block booking has always taken place, remember trying to book Easter when they used to open the bookings in December. I did it once and said never again, too much hassle, website crashing and phone lines engaged. And it was that cold that we said we would never go away at Easter again.

 

I have had to rebook due to car trouble once on the Friday afternoon. We didn't cancel, just re booked for a later date. I did phone the site and they were fine and thanked me for letting them know.

 

I do find it hard to often get a Saturday when booking for a week, so we often go Sun to Fri. But if you look on the Tuesday, there will usually be some spare. I have booked non awning pitches because there was no availability of the awning pitches to find plenty spare when on site.

 

I have a friend who always rings up Rowntree Park a few days before he wants to go and always has got in due to the cancellations. I cant do that as my nature needs to have a pitch booked in advance.

 

Regarding Castleton in particular, this can be a cold site even in Summer, so maybe the weather put people off. We went there for a few nights in August and it was freezing cold, On the way back home went back to Clumber park and it was 4 degrees warner and sunny

 

 

Edited by ian16527
Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, Gordon said:

I have to say in all honestly I could not do that with a clear conscience, and what is happening is a clear argument in itself for having a non-returnable deposit system.

Gordon 

Well neither could I but when you realise that's the only way to get bookings what can you do???

 

Another post reminded me to book the New Forest for next May which I just did. A whopping £800 for 21 nights. We will fine tune the dates no doubt nearer the time!!!

 

I did a double-take, nearly £40 a night!!!!

 

As an aside we visit the New Forest next week and because of bulkhead failure on our Swift we had to cancel CMC and rented a Static with 3 bedrooms and that only cost £60 per night. Not really our cuppa tea but needs must.

 

Pulling a Caravan is certainly not a cheap option...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Gordon said:

I have to say in all honestly I could not do that with a clear conscience, and what is happening is a clear argument in itself for having a non-returnable deposit system.

Gordon 

 

 

I'm not sure why a clear conscience is needed, making bookings isn't against any riules, even if you expect to cancel some of them. The club will have made a conscious decision to create the booking system they have, as it must suit most members, ir certainly suits me. I reckon they would get less members if they introduced deposits.

 

I think people need to fully understand the rules of the club before joining, if the no deposit system doesn't;t suit people then whey join and them main about it?

 

Not everyone has the same set of circumstances allowing them to book a site and know they are committed to attend. My work doesn't; tallow me to do that, so I have to make speculative bookings in the hope I can attend. I f I had to pay a deposit the I would loose out massively ££ as I sometime can't attend them, with working suddenly making me stay late, or even work my days off with only a few hours notice. This is why I'm a member of the Caravan Club as they allow me to make bookings and then cancel them nearer the time if I have to. I find it a brilliant system, Those who moan about it ought to perhaps thin twice before joining as the rules are perfectly clear to everyone.

 

 

5 minutes ago, P101 said:

Another post reminded me to book the New Forest for next May which I just did. A whopping £800 for 21 nights. We will fine tune the dates no doubt nearer the time!!!

 

I did a double-take, nearly £40 a night!!!!

 

I've just booked Chatsworth at £40 per night for a non awning pitch. Not cheap is it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, GaryB1969 said:

I have no idea as to how prevalent this problem is across both clubs, but the feedback comments relating to the Castleton site were an eye-opener.

It isn't just the lost revenue of no shows at a weekend. Those travellers wanting a week or two on a site are effectively pushed to other options (other clubs or private). 

 

So the CMC isn't necessarily just loosing no show revenue. It's also losing longer stay residents during the week so in fact a double whammy.

 

A friend of ours joined the CMC to stay with us at Ramslade and described the lack of deposit as a "totally whacky business model".

 

He then said whilst he liked the concept he couldn't find any places he wanted to go this year so will lapse his membership and stay with the CCC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I think if the Caravan Club introduced deposits then they will gain some new members but also lose some existing members, so I don't see there being any benefit to them. as it would be a gamble as to whether they gain revenue or lose it.

 

Plus they apparently have ££millions in reserve so it's hardly as if they need to change things to boost revenue. They seem very financially secure.

 

The booking system either suits folk or it doesn't, giving people the choice to join or not join. No point handing over your money to a club and them moaning about their rules.

 

Edited by JCCD
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, joanie said:

I think that with the CMC   as we pay the membership fee  and as it is a club  we pay for the privilege of not having to pay a deposit,

You pay a membership fee also with CCC and then pay a deposit. The two don't go hand in hand.

 

I pay to be a member of Brittany Ferries but I still pay a deposit to make a booking. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, joanie said:

.....to save me looking, which sites are booked solid ?

Picked it up off a FB group joanie, will be doing some searching myself later on, fully serviced at Black Knowl filling up quickly which was one of our thoughts.

Stay safe - Griff.  :ph34r:

Wheels at the front Green Oval Towing Machine

Wheels at the back Bessacarr 845

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, P101 said:

Well neither could I (do it with a clear conscience) but when you realise that's the only way to get bookings what can you do???

As others have said, go elsewhere.

 

1 hour ago, JCCD said:

I'm not sure why a clear conscience is needed, making bookings isn't against any rules, even if you expect to cancel some of them.

Something doesn't have to be against the rules for one to feel uncomfortable in doing it. Each to his/her own I guess.

 

1 hour ago, P101 said:

It isn't just the lost revenue of no shows at a weekend. Those travellers wanting a week or two on a site are effectively pushed to other options (other clubs or private). 

So the CMC isn't necessarily just loosing no show revenue. It's also losing longer stay residents during the week so in fact a double whammy.

:goodpost:

Very succinctly put.

 

1 hour ago, P101 said:

You pay a membership fee also with CCC and then pay a deposit. The two don't go hand in hand.

The deposit is deducted from what to pay on arrival though, so you don't loose anything providing you take up the booking.

Gordon

Fourwinds Hurricane 31D Motorhome. Also MGTF135 1. 8i Roadster (fun) & Volvo V70 3.2Ltr LPG (everyday car)
Unless otherwise stated, my posts will be my personal thoughts and have the same standing as any other member of Caravan and Motorhome Talk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Griff said:

Picked it up off a FB group joanie, will be doing some searching myself later on, fully serviced at Black Knowl filling up quickly which was one of our thoughts.

:Thankyou:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Taking bookings for pitches knowing that a significant percentage will cancel close to the arrival date or fail to show up at all, is a policy decision taken by the CMC.  Lost revenue through this policy is factored into the selling price. It is a marketing practice which is sponsored by the customer. Supermarkets do it with shoplifting, and insurance companies do it with fraudulent claims - the cost is factored into the selling price.  It is legal but very wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Ern said:

Taking bookings for pitches knowing that a significant percentage will cancel close to the arrival date or fail to show up at all, is a policy decision taken by the CMC.  Lost revenue through this policy is factored into the selling price. It is a marketing practice which is sponsored by the customer. Supermarkets do it with shoplifting, and insurance companies do it with fraudulent claims - the cost is factored into the selling price.  It is legal but very wrong.

 

But is it wrong if it's an agreed part of membership, and allowed by the CMC? It's fair and polite to cancel, and I always do, but the club is happy for members to no show twice without penalty.

 

I'm not sure why folk who strongly disagree with it bother joining or remain a member. You either accept it, or don't join/renew. It's quite simple. Someone continuously renewing when the membership doesn't suit them is bizarre.

 

 

Edited by JCCD
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It all seems rather bizarre to me.

 

We are members but only rarely use club sites - mostly as we feel they are over-priced but also due to the fact that it can be hard to get a pitch unless you book a year ahead or at the very last minute. This is our choice.

 

If a system like the ability to book and cancel exists, people will use it.  It's hard to criticise people for doing that, even if I feel it disadvantages me because I don't want to do the same.   And I'm sure that occasionally, even the best intentioned forget to or can't cancel within the 72 hours so don't bother.  That's a side effect of the system we have.

 

My guess would be that with deposits, there would be less cancelling and fewer advance bookings. I suspect the Club would see greater occupancy as people were able to make more realistic bookings - e.g. the long-stayers would get their pitch, as would the ones who can book with certainty a month or so in advance.  So why don't they do it? Either they fear a backlash from some members or my guess is wrong!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Scarab said:

 And I'm sure that occasionally, even the best intentioned forget to or can't cancel within the 72 hours so don't bother.  That's a side effect of the system we have.

 

I wonder if those who have to cancel within the 72hr period might think that seeing as they are to receive a warning anyway, then what difference does it make to them if they bother to cancel or do a 'no show' instead? If they are having to forego their trip for genuine reasons, they may take umbrage at being penalised, so as an act of defiance they do a no show instead, kind of having the last say?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would hope that people join because the club offers them more than just caravan pitches and members stay on in the hope that the balance in booking policy may alter to more in their favour. After all, if they leave and can't voice their opinion, the club is unlikely to listen to outsiders, as opposed to paying members.

 

The problem breaks down to fairness between two camps, those who are able to book well in advance and those that can't or won't. Looked at that simply it's plain that the advance bookers have a substantial advantage. Around that simplification are all sorts of issues. Some people dodge between camps as their circumstances alter. Most could book in advance but feel that it's unfair on others if they block pitches by booking when the know  that they're very unlikely to fulfil them. Yet another group, probably Thatcher's children, who see nothing at all wrong with grabbing as much as they can get and hang everybody else. There's even another group that have learned to hang around waiting for last minute cancellations, like the sparrows picking scraps from the bird table.

 

Over all this are the CMC, a commercial business that wants to maximise occupancy to maximise profit to plough back into sites and services to benefit members. If they weren't happy with the return then I suspect they'd press to alter the system to improve it. But, as well as being a commercial business, it is also a club and as such shouldn't adopt or allow a 'beggar my neighbour' culture to override everything else.

 

My own view is that taking deposits, unless significant sums and unreturnable, will not affect the persistent overbookers. Many will just shrug and bear it if it's not something really punitive and there'd be a significant increase in managerial costs in running the whole system, handling complaints and queries about overcharging, returned deposits etc.

 

I would hope that a computer booking model could be developed that managed pitch booking, limiting the number that any member could book, so that they would have to prioritise. I understand that couples could double up with such a system, so the figure for any member has to be fairly low. Maybe it would be on the basis of one 14 day fortnight or two individual weeks and, say two weekends plus five individual or collective weekdays. The system page would show you how many of each category each member had available to book at any one time and it would keep a rolling tally, so if you go on one of your two weekends, you can then book another afterwards.

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Steamdrivenandy said:

My own view is that taking deposits, unless significant sums and unreturnable, will not affect the persistent overbookers.

 

I'm not so sure. You only have to look at the complaints that ring out when deposits are suggested.  I think that I would pitch it at something like £10 per night per booking. Roughly 30%. 

5 minutes ago, Steamdrivenandy said:

I would hope that a computer booking model could be developed that managed pitch booking, limiting the number that any member could book, so that they would have to prioritise. I understand that couples could double up with such a system, so the figure for any member has to be fairly low. Maybe it would be on the basis of one 14 day fortnight or two individual weeks and, say two weekends plus five individual or collective weekdays. The system page would show you how many of each category each member had available to book at any one time and it would keep a rolling tally, so if you go on one of your two weekends, you can then book another afterwards.

 This sounds like something from a Communist Timeshare contract. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Scarab said:

 This sounds like something from a Communist Timeshare contract. :D

It does, but if your booking page on the club's website kept a rolling tally you'd be able to look up what you could book at any one time. If you'd booked all your allowed weekends and a more important event meant you wanted another, you just cancel one and rebook the more important date. The point is it limits, whilst still allowing some planning. Without some limitation the system is never going to be fairer. 

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm with Scarab.

 

I could live with a system where I'm allowed to book just three weekend (Friday to Sunday/Monday) slots and three "long stays" on a rolling basis.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Steamdrivenandy said:

 

I would hope that a computer booking model could be developed that managed pitch booking, limiting the number that any member could book, so that they would have to prioritise.

 

This should be possible. I know of people who book every weekend throughout the season then cancel nearer the time when they can't make it. A little selfish I feel but they using the current system to their advantage.  If there was a limit on the amount of bookings a member can make within a time frame then this could free up pitches for those genuine cases.

 

The website could also have a reserve list, so people could express an interest and be contacted if a cancellation offers a pitch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Steamdrivenandy said:

It does, but if your booking page on the club's website kept a rolling tally you'd be able to look up what you could book at any one time. If you'd booked all your allowed weekends and a more important event meant you wanted another, you just cancel one and rebook the more important date. The point is it limits, whilst still allowing some planning. Without some limitation the system is never going to be fairer. 

 

Sorry for the slightly cheeky response.

 

Given that the problem (I think) isn't those that use their many bookings, rather those that book and don't use, couldn't the Club ask for payment up front and issue refunds (full, if necessary) if you cancel in the right period?

 

They could have it in the T's and C's that they issue refunds annually (maybe at the time of membership payments) to reduce admin and make cancellation less attractive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Dave Capiro owner said:

The website could also have a reserve list, so people could express an interest and be contacted if a cancellation offers a pitch.

That's an excellent feature.

1 minute ago, Scarab said:

 

Sorry for the slightly cheeky response.

 

Given that the problem (I think) isn't those that use their many bookings, rather those that book and don't use, couldn't the Club ask for payment up front and issue refunds (full, if necessary) if you cancel in the right period?

 

They could have it in the T's and C's that they issue refunds annually (maybe at the time of membership payments) to reduce admin and make cancellation less attractive.

 

They could, but I still don't think it would dter the overbookers unless it was a very large deposit and that would probably cause howls of anguish all round. 

I've got nothing to do on this hot afternoon

but to settle down and write you a line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, Steamdrivenandy said:

Yet another group, probably Thatcher's children, who see nothing at all wrong with grabbing as much as they can get and hang everybody else.

Was it really necessary to bring political views to this debate, which so far has been rather constructive?

 

Some of the other ideas expressed have merit but are quite complicated and it could be extremely difficult to model the outcomes. A simple change could hammer occupancy levels; ditto requiring deposits if the bar is set too high or too low.

 

Despite the current pros and cons there's a really simplistic model now; take a booking and pay on arrival. Imagine taking deposits. All the rules for what can be returned within certain timeframe windows. What happens if a deposit return is allowed but the card is no longer active. A whole bunch of complex issues which would require expansion of the back office teams.

 

There is a reason why the CCC club don't allow online modifications - because it gets difficult - can only be changed on the phone...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...