Jump to content

Interesting JLR article


Recommended Posts

Interesting article about JLR in America's Automotive News (4th March 2021).Briefly, Head of JLR reckons poor reliability issues are costing them 100,000 sales per year. Chief technical director says that JLR are planning to reduce the complexity of the current range in an effort to improve reliability
.Follows on from one of the motoring magazine whose long term test Defender suffered engine failure after 167 miles.

Link to post
Share on other sites

JLR have had this reputation for expensive poor quality vehicles for years. Just about everyone knows this but TATA JLR have ignored this fact, btw I own a 2015 Discovery D4 which has broken down twice now on 18,300 miles both times in Europe. JLR are now suffering the ramifications of this. The vehicles are too full of electronics that are not really needed, ie electronic parking brake etc. However I will add that even so called prestige vehicles from Germany BMW, Audi and Mercedes are also getting a reputation for poor reliability but nothing like as bad as JLR. This reliability issue should have been addressed years ago. I wonder just how many of us really want all the extra tech that comes with most cars these days. Most reliable vehicles we ever used and I had three of them were Nissan Terranos from the 90's.Bullet proof and we abused them with heavy towing every day and never let us down. Simple, design it right, build it right is the key to success. For me after owning three Discovery's  this will be my last one, but which make to go for ? thinking it will be Korean. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

They consistently come out bottom of every reliability trial I’ve seen across the world.   I’ve had good fun on many a Land Rover day but buy one, no thank you, why would you pay top prices for something that is consistently bottom of the pile.  

If your tow car is not working it’s an expensive ornament.  After 4 Sorentos over nearly 20 years. We have had three times they needed other than normal servicing. 

1 hand brake button came off.  Really serious that one

1 sensor wire detached.  Possibly by misuse 

1 recall for new radiator 

 

No brake downs. Not so much as a blown bulb. So it can be done. 

My short service yesterday as the car approaches 7 years old cost. £50. At Warwick Kia a company I highly recommend.   No issues. 

 

If if I bother with a new car guess what it might be 

 

Kia KX 3 auto / Bailey Alicanto Grande Estoril and Swift Challenger 570 (2010 model Not towed - used as a static)
 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I seriously considered a RR Sport when I got my Cayenne but it was the reliability issue that put me off. And it's no use saying avoid complicated electronics. To compete in the modern marketplace (unless they want to provide a basic old Defender type vehicle which wouldn't be a bad thing) they need to provide the same level of technical sophistication as their competitors - they just need to make the vehicles reliable.

My Cayenne has been fault free so far (fingers crossed) - my neighbour ended up terminating the contract on his new Velar and sending it back he had so many faults.

It pains me to say this about JLR because I love the brand and the various models both technically and aesthetically, but until they solve the reliability issue I couldn't bring myself to buy one.

Life is not a rehearsal . . .:)

Porsche Cayenne S Diesel & Knaus StarClass 695. Previously Audi S4 Avant & Elddis Super Sirocco

Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting you cite the Velar , we had a prospective customer turn up in a brand new one. At going home time the only door that would unlock was the front passenger door. " how much did I pay for this?" was heard as he clambered over the  centre tunnel.

Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, KnausCol said:

And it's no use saying avoid complicated electronics.

 

Or is it? I wonder how many owners of vehicles full of ' bling ' for want of a better word actually use over 40% of it, or even undestand much of it, as manufactures battle with each other to  provide an ever more impressive poseur factor.

 

Make no mistake, I'm all for improvements and new technology, but technology that is actually needed and more to the point works consistently. 

 

Just like the many millions of microwaves in kitchens that will do all manner of wonderfull things, but are mainly used for a bit of de-frosting, warming up meals, or making a quick mug cake. 😋 of which I'm occasionally guilty.

 

 

Common sense isn't a gift, it's a punishment because you have to deal with everyone who doesn't have it.  :rolleyes:

Link to post
Share on other sites

From the very same article:

  • Jaguar may have finished sixth from the bottom (JD power initial quality study), however they are ahead of Mercedes-Benz, Volvo and Audi
  • JLR's warranty costs have been reducing recently as quality levels improve
  • JLR halved its warranty costs in the 9 months to end Dec 20
  • The 2020 model year will be the best model year for at least three years
  • The Jaguar E-Pace topped its SUV category beating the Lexus UX
  • Jaguar will phase out its current range of internal-combustion engine vehicles to switch to new, electric-only cars from 2025 and target more affluent customers. Land Rover meanwhile will also push more upmarket

So, is the future bright(er) for JLR? Really hope so......

Cheers, Martin

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Silversurf said:

 

Or is it? I wonder how many owners of vehicles full of ' bling ' for want of a better word actually use over 40% of it, or even undestand much of it, as manufactures battle with each other to  provide an ever more impressive poseur factor.

 

Make no mistake, I'm all for improvements and new technology, but technology that is actually needed and more to the point works consistently. 

 

Just like the many millions of microwaves in kitchens that will do all manner of wonderfull things, but are mainly used for a bit of de-frosting, warming up meals, or making a quick mug cake. 😋 of which I'm occasionally guilty.

 

 

I appreciate your point but I'm sure the marketing and sales 'experts' will tell you that when push comes to shove the majority of the buying public will go for the item (car, microwave, whatever) with the extra features if they're available - even if as you say they may not actually come to use them. Even the budget car manufacturers dare not gradually introduce the latest convenience technology. They may be years behind but in their own market sector they have to do it or they will lose sales.

Life is not a rehearsal . . .:)

Porsche Cayenne S Diesel & Knaus StarClass 695. Previously Audi S4 Avant & Elddis Super Sirocco

Link to post
Share on other sites

My uncle's dog's girl friend's workmate had a Land Rover that was always breaking down. So far only one person has claimed first hand experience of a JLR problem - can anyone join this JLR bashing thread ? :)

Edited by OWOMW

Land Rover - getting restless.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Surprised to hear Volvo taking a beating from JLR. I have had 2 xc60s with not so much as bulb blow and just purchased an xc90. Time will tell.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's get real here though-it simply isn't electronics that are causing the issue though they are a major part-a friend(small car dealership)  had a nearly new disco recently and I went for a poke around it-the boot opened half way up and stuck-(and guess who walked into it). His comment-there's so much going on in these things -switch off and start again-lo and behold-boot was fine.(even the folding seats are electric-all of them!) but these things are suffering major mechanical issues too-engine failures etc. On the plus side the build quality inside and quality of the leather/ seats etc meant after obvious hard use there was not one iota of wear and tear in evidence on any of the seats. Wonderful cars and glad to see glimmers of improvement.

 

Edited by Jezzerb
Link to post
Share on other sites

Having owned an unreliable FL2 for a short while i can also say my current Volvo beats it hands down for number faults per mile. Should have rejected it. My son has gone from RR Sport to Cayenne and back to RR Sport, loves it and it is utterly reliable. His wifes Evoques less so (such he wouldn’t sell me her Overfinch Evoque) and now runs Beemers. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, OWOMW said:

My uncle's dog's girl friend's workmate had a Land Rover that was always breaking down. So far only one person has claimed first hand experience of a JLR problem - can anyone join this JLR bashing thread ? :)

Not bashing, just  statement of facts. I'd love to see JLR doing better, British jobs etc. Before semi retiring into the job j have now 30 years as an independent mechanic I watched JLR turn from a prestige brand into what it is now. Let's hope its fortunes change.

Link to post
Share on other sites

At the end of the day the more things you fit in a ehicle the more there is to go wrong which is why very few upper range cars do well on reliability. Keeping things as simple as possible should improve reliability although quality comonents and good assembly are also important.

Link to post
Share on other sites

My XF never left me stranded but in 18 months of ownership had near constant issues that were not only expensive to sort but well known on the forums.

 

I traded it in when I started to get vibrations at motorway speeds from the rear diff at 45k miles.

 

A shame as the car was great to drive and very comfortable.

Yeti 2.0TDi EU6 150 DSG 4X4 L&K, Octavia TSi Manual, Fabia TSi DSG, Swift Challenger.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you look at the JD powers dependability survey you will see that Landrover and Jaguar are just behind Mercedes and ahead of Audi and BMW. The article blames the sophistication of the electronics in the premium brands. Those manufacturers that make lots of shopping trolleys fair better. In Landrovers defence, they make only 4x4 vehicles so in absolute terms 1.46 faults per vehicle is pretty good. (some of those of course will be trivial)  I have had a string of Landrovers and I can think of 2 faults I have experienced. I had a burst Ad-blu tank and a premature oil change due to dilution. Neither stopped the cars involved and were addressed under warranty free of charge. My latest Evoque has been fault free in 18 months.

JD powers 2019 European dependability study.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Wildwood said:

At the end of the day the more things you fit in a vehicle the more there is to go wrong which is why very few upper range cars do well on reliability. Keeping things as simple as possible should improve reliability although quality comonents and good assembly are also important.

If something goes wrong the car tends to go into limp mode for just about anything. Whilst in the South of France, fault ABS sensor not available ,( I have a code reader ) vehicle goes to safe mode, reduced performance, air suspension reduces to lowest level very unpleasant ride. Now I can live without ABS, we never had it years ago just drive with more care but no, not allowed, journey ruined and where can you find a decent LR repairer in the South of France who will not see you without seeing your euros in his pockets.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Suppose I have been lucky, had five Discovery's and a FFRR, all problem free but from new.

 

In saying that, one thing I can fault my D4 for is its front seating design, it's too close to the transmission tunel.

 

Do you know, I have dropped must be two or three £50 notes between the drivers seat and the tunnel, do you think I can fish them out.

 

Wish I had known that be shelling out for it!

Stay safe - Griff.  :ph34r:

Wheels at the front - Discovery 4. Wheels at the back - Bessacarr 845.

Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, OWOMW said:

My uncle's dog's girl friend's workmate had a Land Rover that was always breaking down. So far only one person has claimed first hand experience of a JLR problem - can anyone join this JLR bashing thread ? :)

My son in law manages a highly successful family owned garage specializing in high end 2nd hand cars from Ferrari down to the hot hatches and 4 x 4.  (though they will deal in any good vehicle)  Which is great as I get to play sometimes.    No Land Rover or Volvo is taken in unless they can factor in the costs of the inevitable multiple comebacks, his words not mine.   Japanese and Korean he is happy to deal all day long,  never see them again.  German ok but servicing and parts prices are a joke.

 

I do hope JLR finally  see the light that reliability is one part of a reputation that causes invisible loss of sales.  It would be nice to be able to put their products into a wish list.   Blame electronics if you will but others get it right.

 

Have a look at 'john cadogan' utube  videos on car reviews.  love it

Kia KX 3 auto / Bailey Alicanto Grande Estoril and Swift Challenger 570 (2010 model Not towed - used as a static)
 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, colin h said:

Surprised to hear Volvo taking a beating from JLR. I have had 2 xc60s with not so much as bulb blow and just purchased an xc90. Time will tell.

Me to Colin H, when we changed from the 1st XC60 I had a good look around at most of the competition and I purposely put to one side the stories you hear of breakdowns, unreliability etc from virtually all makes (Its back to you only hear the bad and rarely the good.) I actually looked at what we wanted it for, what we would use, how we would use it etc. etc. I test drove a couple of RR sports, an Evoque and a full fat RR. In all honesty they all left me underwhelmed and in most cases I found or Mrs J found uncomfortable, or not as comfortable as we would have wanted. We got down to a list of two, another XC60 or a Hyundai Santa Fe. We went with another XC60 and have not regretted it once.

Again putting the internet issues of LR to one side, what did really annoy me was I went to 3 different LR dealerships reasonably local to me. Now I am not the scruffiest person in the world, nor am I the smartest, but in each and every dealership we got treated with utter contempt and fair amount of looking down noses, perhaps if the dealers treated folk differently then the feedback they get maybe more favorable.

 

When I say a choice of two, it was 3 I really fancied the Porsche  Cayenne, but already got one P as atoy and Mrs J did put her foot down!!...

2018 Volvo XC60  D4 AWD + Penshurst Premier Plus (AKA Elddis Affinity 550)

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jacko1 said:

When I say a choice of two, it was 3 I really fancied the Porsche  Cayenne, but already got one P as atoy and Mrs J did put her foot down!!...

You wouldn't have been disappointed ;) 

Life is not a rehearsal . . .:)

Porsche Cayenne S Diesel & Knaus StarClass 695. Previously Audi S4 Avant & Elddis Super Sirocco

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, KnausCol said:

You wouldn't have been disappointed ;) 

 

The size of cheque would probably disappoint him ;)

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had four Discos over the years - my last one being the one in the photo.  I suppose you could say that I was something of an 'enthusiast'! and therefore I'm not going to knock JLR without some justification.  I loved the D3, but it also had me tearing my hair out because it spent nearly as much time at the dealers as it did with me - and all for (with one exception), stupid electrical faults. Problems with the EPB were well known - especially when the vehicle is used off-road when JLR were advising it should be serviced every 2000 miles (what?).  Mine locked up in the middle of a very busy and complicated junction in the middle of Hull and wouldn't clear even when trying to drive off in low ratio first. Rear door jammed shut when trying to pack the car before going away on holiday, warning lights came on a regular intervals despite a diagnostic test indicating nothing was wrong, EGR valves needed replacing at something like 10,000 miles etc etc etc. My allegiances eventually switched to VW and I have to say that not only is the Treg just as capable off-road as the Disco, in the last 6 years, the only problem I have had is with a faulty Nox sensor (Touching a lot of wood!!).  I am seriously looking at the new Defender, but I keep asking myself whether or not I am prepared to take the risk - which is a shame.

 

IMG_1799.JPG

VW Touareg Escape towing a 2018 Knaus Starclass 695

Link to post
Share on other sites

As someone who has never owned a JLR product so therefore has no personal experience of them I would ask the following single question.

 

Are there any other “prestige” (or even non prestige)  makes with a proven, and well documented, history of their engines self destructing? Crankshaft failure being my prime concern. I realise it’s a relatively small number that fail, but do you ever hear of Volvo/Merc/Audi/BMW or any Japanese makes suffering such catastrophic (and exceedingly expensive) failures ??

 

My son in law ran a Disco for a while (company vehicle but not new). Lovely think to drive BUT it’s was forever in the garage having something fixed. He got rid and got a Hyundai, it hasn’t missed a beat and he really uses it!

 

 

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Proud owner and extremely satisfied to boot with 3 x RRS;  a couple of FL2s; one FL1 and umpteen LWB/SWB Landrovers.  There clearly are and have been some problems but as I have mentioned before on here, there is no doubting that JLR has more than its fair share of shoddy main dealers which amplifies the issue for the owner.

Sam :beardy:   RR Sport HSE Dynamic towing Swift Elegance Grande 845

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...