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Ultra store fail. Gas & electric


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Hi all. 

 

Forgive me if this question has been asked before but I can't find an answer with exactly the problem I have. 

 

Only been caravaning a year,well when not in lockdown anyway! 

 

1st time used van hot water fine on electric. 

2nd time electric failed fine on gas. 

3rd time total fail. 

 

I can't rule out having had the electric heater on when there was no water in it (total newbie so was probably panicking when we first went out). So that could explain the electric fail. When I got home after the 2nd trip I found that if I even switched on the electric at the switch it tripped my house every time instantly. 

When attempting to light the gas heating now I get the red led in the dial after 5ish seconds. I can hear a click as it attempts to light and another when it fails. 

 

Now, I can understand my heater element burning out but right before the gas fail?? 

Is there something common to both methods of heating that could have failed and explain it all or is it just sheer bad luck??  I've read that there is a PCB on the heater but that it only controls the gas heating but I would have thought that an electric heater needs a control unit of some sort. Guess that's why I'm asking here. I'm lost....... 

 

Thanks in advance. 

 

Gaz. 

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How old is the caravan and when was it last gas serviced? The water gas burner may need a service, more especially if the caravan has not been serviced for a while.

Graham

Unless otherwise stated all posts are my personal opinion 

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:welcome:

When using gas to heat your water you must first remove the cowl fitted to the outside wall. 

You say that it worked fine on gas one time but not now.

Is the gas turned on everywhere?

Do you have gas in your bottle and is it Propane as this works better in cold conditions?

The gas will take a few minuets to come through before it ignites.

You may be better off pulling the fuse to the electric side of the heater so as not to trip your house electrics. 

Good luck.

Doosan

 

Bailey Pageant Series 6 Champagne 2007    Tow Car Toyota Rav4

 

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Hi all, thanks for the speedy replies. 👍

It's a compass magnum 556 from 2011 I think. It was serviced before we bought it around Oct 2019. The cover to the vent is always off as I do it when I connect the aqua roll. 

There is gas in the bottle as used gas burners/bbq point all through last trip. 

 

I do have the electric switch to the heater off to stop it tripping the house. 

 

Tempted to try a new element as that seems an inexpensive fix. Do any of you know if it does use the PCB to operate on electric as might try that first as it could be the reason both have failed in a relatively short space if time. 

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The best thing you could do is get a mobile caravan engineer to sort the unit out and get everything working as it should.

 

In answer to your question about the PCB, no, the PCB is only for the gas side of the heating , nothing to do with the electric element.

 

Regarding the gas side, did you ever use the gas heater when you used the van, or did you only use electric?

If you never used the gas side, you should check that the isolation tap is open for the gas to the heater and then it could take several attempts to get it to fire and operate correctly as there will be air in the pipework.

Edited by Brecon
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Hey Brecon. 

 

I've got the PCB out and nothing 'looks' amiss although I know any of the resistors could be blown without any outwards signs of failure. 

Yes the gas did work for one trip with no issues when we found that the electric wouldn't work. 

 

I'm also going to try and get the element out tomorrow. Only problem is that it points towards the front bulkhead wall so if it's one of the 'straight' elements I'm in trouble because it will need the whole unit moving which I wouldn't do because of any gas pipes around it. I did read there are some 'banana' shaped ones so fingers crossed. 

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1 hour ago, Hilly9495 said:

I'm also going to try and get the element out tomorrow. Only problem is that it points towards the front bulkhead wall

 

Make sure you buy the correct element.   There are two different ones.    An 850Watt and a 450W.   I changed mine a couple of years ago and that looked as though it might be difficult.   Also I had the fuse module in the way but by twisting and raising as it was removed, it came out fairly easily.      The recovery process, having paid the ridiculous price for the thing took much longer than the job itself.   :)   Be prepared to fork out big time.

 

IMG_20200306_163045.jpg.66409f1481454884141b2a2a78ee6b97.jpg

Edited by Jaydug

Citroen C5-X7 Tourer+Avondale Rialto 480/2
https://jondogoescaravanning.com

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4 hours ago, Hilly9495 said:

Tempted to try a new element as that seems an inexpensive fix.

 

Wait until you see the cost of the elements ..... budget around £120+. They are designed with a cutout so should reset if tripped for any reason, such as running dry but in my experience they are extremely unreliable. 

 

The electric element is powered directly by the mains cable, the pcb controls the gas, temperature, valve and ignition. I assume when trying to use the gas you have 12v available to it, as it needs this to ignite. About the only thing on that pcb you can test easily is the glass fuse, otherwise unless you know what you are doing leave it alone. They are very delicate and again £120+ to replace though used ones are usually to be found on ebay

Mercedes E350 CDi AMG Cabriolet, Lunar Freelander 640EW Twin Axle @1700kg

 

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If the water heater is tripping the RDC/ELCB then it is likely that the element has burst, allowing the water to reach the live heater inside in which case a new element will be required.

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34 minutes ago, DACS said:

If the water heater is tripping the RDC/ELCB then it is likely that the element has burst, allowing the water to reach the live heater inside in which case a new element will be required.

It might be possible to check for that with a meter set on resistance to see if there is a short between the element live/neutral connections and earth, without having to remove the element from the tank.

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On 01/02/2021 at 13:27, Paul1957 said:

It might be possible to check for that with a meter set on resistance to see if there is a short between the element live/neutral connections and earth, without having to remove the element from the tank.

True, but it only requires a very small current to trip an RCD so it can be quite  high resistance rather than a short circuit.

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