I wonder when

[Jaydug]

41 minutes ago, MalH said:

That's now been contradicted by another minister who says they'll open to tourist by Spring.  Seems we're not the only country where ministers contradict one another!

 

That's Spanish politics for you.   They have a Central Government, then several provincial governments, each with it's own President and parliament.   Since they are not always from the same political party, disagreements often arise.   Tourism is just one of the services which is under the control of the provincial governments.   Toes were obviously trod on.  

[Mr Plodd]

3 minutes ago, Jaydug said:

 

That's Spanish politics for you.   They have a Central Government, then several provincial governments, each with it's own President and parliament.   Since they are not always from the same political party, disagreements often arise.   Tourism is just one of the services which is under the control of the provincial governments.   Toes were obviously trod on.  

 

A bit like here then? 

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, ivan leslie said:

What I don’t understand is that, with nearly all those with pre-conditions , otherwise vulnerable or over 80, having had the vaccine, and those over 70 planned to be jabbed in the 2/3 weeks, why is it that we are making no inroads into the problem?  

I suggest a little reasearch would help.

You search for the numbers that now have had two vaccinations, then see how many have had one vaccination. Then compare those figures with the UK population as a whole, and after allowing for people not staying at home when they should, then you should be able to answer your own question.

[ivan leslie]

46 minutes ago, Gordon said:

I suggest a little reasearch would help.

You search for the numbers that now have had two vaccinations, then see how many have had one vaccination. Then compare those figures with the UK population as a whole, and after allowing for people not staying at home when they should, then you should be able to answer your own question.

My point is that the vulnerable people in the categories that form most of the deaths have now been, or will be in 2/3 weeks, vaccinated at least once.  If the vaccine works,  logic says it should start to reduce the deaths considerably if not completely. 
The government does not seem to think this - I wonder why?

 

[Paul1957]

It has to be remembered many of the people in hospital are not old, we know somebody who is 30 and so far has been in ICU for 2 weeks. By jabbing the old/vulnerable it should reduce the number of deaths but to reduce the number in hospital to protect the NHS younger people will need the vaccine. Those unfortunately dying now will have caught the virus over Christmas/new year and will not have been vaccinated. It will be many weeks before any improvement will be seen in deaths from the vaccine but to reduce numbers in hospital needs the lock down/stay at home/masks/hand washing to be effective until everyone is vaccinated.

Edited January 23, 2021 by Paul1957

[Mr Plodd]

1 hour ago, ivan leslie said:

My point is that the vulnerable people in the categories that form most of the deaths have now been, or will be in 2/3 weeks, vaccinated at least once.  If the vaccine works,  logic says it should start to reduce the deaths considerably if not completely. 
The government does not seem to think this - I wonder why?

 

 

 

Reduce the deaths maybe, but what’s needed is a reduction in the number of overall infections to lower the number of people needing hospital treatment and reduce the rate of transmission. 

 

Many people have been, and still will be, seriously ill with Covid without needing to be hospitalised.  It’s not just about the number of deaths.  We have a friend who contracted Covid in the first wave, she is still suffering severely from “Long Covid” and has actually written a book about her experience. She still cannot even ascend the stairs in her home in one go!

[ivan leslie]

19 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

 

Reduce the deaths maybe, but what’s needed is a reduction in the number of overall infections to lower the number of people needing hospital treatment and reduce the rate of transmission. 

 

Many people have been, and still will be, seriously ill with Covid without needing to be hospitalised.  It’s not just about the number of deaths.  We have a friend who contracted Covid in the first wave, she is still suffering severely from “Long Covid” and has actually written a book about her experience. She still cannot even ascend the stairs in her home in one go!

With well over 90% of deaths being in the pre conditions or over 80 areas there is no “ maybe “ about trying to reduce them. If they can be brought right down or eradicated by the vaccine, that will free up all sorts of services in the Covid area. This will be to the absolute benefit of the whole population.  
I am, of course, aware that other people are catching it and suffering and we all know someone who has had their problems but, in the overall scheme of things, we must attend to those that actually die.

[micktheshed]

19 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

 

Reduce the deaths maybe, but what’s needed is a reduction in the number of overall infections to lower the number of people needing hospital treatment and reduce the rate of transmission.

I totally agree but does any-one know for sure if you can still transmit the disease even after recovering from covid or being vaccinated? Apparently those who may have no symptoms but actually have the disease are still quite capable of passing it on. It is, apparently, even possible to catch it more than once.

 

If this is the case then it needs to be understood that the vaccination is of little effect, in normal world circumstances,  until virtually ALL the population has had it or tested negative.

 

An extended total lock-down would have a similar result but is not practical.

[Stevan]

1 hour ago, micktheshed said:

I totally agree but does any-one know for sure if you can still transmit the disease even after recovering from covid or being vaccinated? Apparently those who may have no symptoms but actually have the disease are still quite capable of passing it on. It is, apparently, even possible to catch it more than once.

 

If this is the case then it needs to be understood that the vaccination is of little effect, in normal world circumstances,  until virtually ALL the population has had it or tested negative.

 

An extended total lock-down would have a similar result but is not practical.

There is still an awful lot still not known about this disease.

It is however, known that asymptomatic suffers can still pass it on.

It is believed by some experts that the vaccination does not total prevent someone from catching and passing on the disease but does drastically reduce the likelihood of someone suffering serious symptoms.

It is also not known with any certainty how long immunity lasts either for someone who has either had the disease or been vaccinated.

Time is needed for many of the answers!

[KnausCol]

One of the staggering statistics of this pandemic reveals how age biased it is. Of the c. 73000 Covid deaths recorded in 2020 only 700 were people aged less than 50 years old, not counting people with serious underlying medical conditions.

So protecting the older populous is essential and once that cohort is vaccinated and protected the whole impact of the disease both on the NHS and life in general is potentially massively reduced. There are still many unknowns and it may be a long time if ever that we are truly free of this plague but at least we know how to target our defence.

[ivan leslie]

21 hours ago, Stevan said:

 

Time is needed for many of the answers!

By which time the country is well and truly bankrupt??  How will that help anyone??

[Stevan]

8 minutes ago, ivan leslie said:

By which time the country is well and truly bankrupt??  How will that help anyone??

Facts aren't necessarily helpful! But blind optimism is even worse!

[Vaguely]

When I’m having a particularly fed up day, which doesn’t happen often as I’m a generally upbeat person, there are two things which make me smile when I think about them..

One is getting back to our static, seeing our friends and neighbours there, long riverside walks, lunch in the cosy pub sharing a bottle of wine,  and sitting in the beautiful garden of the posh pub enjoying a large G&T in the sun on my September birthday.

The other is hiring the same cottage on an Anglesey sheep farm at the beginning of lambing in February which we did last year. To be present at so many live births, and unfortunately one difficult and sad ending for one sheep, was a total privilege. We said at the time we’ll definitely be back next year..