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That is the problem, although receiving can work sometimes, and a number of stolen caravans can make prosecution simpler.

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Looks like our law abiding friends from the traveller community are being "victimised"  again. When 100+ of them attended the wake of one of their own, the police broke up the "party" where "some" were consuming alcohol and got angry when they were told that they were breaking Covid regulations. 42 of them were fined £200 each and one person was arrested for "an unrelated theft"! (Evening Standard, Anthony France, 15/1/21, 8:42pm.)

Wonder how many of them will actually pay the fine?

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On 14/01/2021 at 12:57, diploma said:

Update one caravan was recovered because it had a tracker fitted , the owner had to wait 6 hrs before the police would go on the site to recover it, they would not look round the site for the other van, They have not been to the storage site to look at the TV images that show a male and a female in detail with good pictures of there faces, No one been charged with anything .

It was a man and woman who took mine.  Also, the site owner had contacted the police.  I spoke to them on the phone whilst I was there and gave them the information they required.  And that was the first and last time I spoke to them.  I just got an email a month later that case was closed.  That was it.  Up to about 10 years ago, I believed in our police force.  Now I really, really believe in fairies and Father Christmas

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It is very easy to criticise but please believe me when I say it is very difficult to get a prosecution past the CPS these days. The slightest possible reason not to proceed will be leapt on by them to “discontinue”  The problem now is that the CPS  decide if there is s better than 51% chance of conviction. My argument is that is the job of the courts to decide and not the COS who are acting as judge and jury long before anything gets to court.

 

There are other serving, and ex, coppers on here, who  I am sure will concur with me. 

Edited by Mr Plodd

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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You may actually cheer a little when you see this:

 

Reproduced from the Times, today:

Priti Patel is set to give the police new powers to evict travellers who build encampments on private and public land and refuse to leave.

The home secretary will shortly announce plans that will make it a criminal offence to trespass with the intention of settling.

People found in breach of the new laws will face fines of up to £2,500 or a three-month prison sentence.

The police will also have the power to seize the vehicles of those who ignore landowners’ calls for them to leave.

A Home Office source said: “We are delivering on our manifesto commitment to crack down on the blight of unauthorised encampments.

“These camps cause distress and disruption for millions of people right across the country, so it’s right we are giving the police the powers they need to bring this to an end.” An investigation last year by Channel 4’s Dispatches found that the average crime rate around traveller sites in the UK was one and a half times the national average.

One Surrey resident told the programme that he was attacked in his car while driving past the Littleton Lane caravan site near Thorpe Park.

“I heard a massive bang so I thought I’d hit something so I pulled over and I found out that they’d chucked a brick at my car and there was literally bricks right across the roundabout where they’d attacked other cars,” he said.

“I panicked — I got out of the car and looked at the tree line outside the road and they all held the bricks up as if to say ‘don’t come any nearer’, that sort of thing.”

A police officer, speaking anonymously, told Channel 4 that concerns about upsetting certain communities had affected the force’s ability to respond to crimes. “I think there’s a lot of political correctness,” the officer said. “When we see that there is a specific part of the community in quite large numbers committing crimes and we’re almost not allowed to mention it that can be quite frustrating.

“There are specific operations directed at Travellers but that isn’t outwardly publicised because the last thing the police want is more criticism by people who feel that . . . this is just an attack on a minority group that is unwarranted.”

There are an estimated 200,000 Roma people living in the UK and between 100,000 and 300,000 Gypsies and Irish Travellers, with communities concentrated in and around London and Manchester. The most recent national census from ten years ago found that 74 per cent were living in permanent accommodation.

The new laws are based on legislation introduced in the Republic of Ireland in 2002, which made trespassing on private land a criminal offence. There has been some debate about Ireland’s treatment of Traveller communities. A report by the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission has said that the state’s treatment of Travellers over decades cast a “dark shadow” over the country’s democracy.

The 2019 Conservative manifesto contained a pledge to “tackle unauthorised camps”.

The charity Friends, Families and Travellers said: “It is deeply unfair that while the government is dramatically failing to identify enough land for traveller and Traveller families to live on, the home secretary is working to create laws to imprison and fine families living on roadside camps for the ‘crime’ of having nowhere else to go.

“The government must do more to identify land for traveller and Traveller people to live and stop placing blame on the very families they have failed. Everybody needs a place to live.”

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If you listen carefully you can hear the howls of protest from all the bleeding heart liberals already !! 

 

“They’re a minority group who are being unfairly discriminated against” 

 

With no mention of the distress that is caused to all the rightful owners of property that “disappears”,

 

  

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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It'll be interesting to see what does happen. I have had reason to enter Travellers' sites as well, and I was very uncomfortable indeed.

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To me they are minority group abusing the rest of us.

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If people are travellers they can be decent law abiding people - full timers in motor caravans or trailer caravans or boats and barges are amongst us on this forum and we all respect these people because they are decent people. 

The whole concept of travellers has been distorted so that very unpleasant  people are being made exempt from the laws of decent society. What I have never been able to understand is why people claim to be travellers and yet have no wish to travel.

22 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

It is very easy to criticise but please believe me when I say it is very difficult to get a prosecution past the CPS these days. The slightest possible reason not to proceed will be leapt on by them to “discontinue”  The problem now is that the CPS  decide if there is s better than 51% chance of conviction. My argument is that is the job of the courts to decide and not the COS who are acting as judge and jury long before anything gets to court.

 

There are other serving, and ex, coppers on here, who  I am sure will concur with me. 

I'm not ex police but concur with the sentiments of your post. I think the CPS is actually serving as a filter to reduce the number of criminals being brought to court. It certainly isn't what they were put there for though.

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  • 3 months later...

We have just had our caravan stolen from a lock up in the day they disabled our tracker and the police say travelers have taken it so looks like we won’t get it back. 

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Posted (edited)

Just read about your theft Julie, why don't you post some details of the van in the stolen section....in case anyone on the forum spots it on their travels....I often look out for mis matched registration plates/no plates/cardboard plates on vans which may indicate something is wrong...I am considering putting a stick on registration  plate on the van roof as additional id.....which may not be spotted by any thieves....but ideally you need to prevent the theft in the first place...maybe fit a secondary tracker mobile phone...

Edited by gtepete
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Sorry to hear this Julie, hope they can recover caravan

 

this is one of our biggest worries too. 


will have to think about getting tracker fitted once I have the funds 

 

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If the caravan was taken by  travellers and used by them to live n I doubt you would want it back. Frankly unless you get it back within  few days you are unlikely to see it again.

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6 hours ago, James749 said:


will have to think about getting tracker fitted once I have the funds 

 

 

I would just point out that the tracker in this case was disabled by the thief !

 

I have repeatedly pointed out on this forum that trackers

  • Do absolutely nothing whatsoever to deter/prevent  a theft
  • They are easy to disable when you know how (as in this case they clearly did) 
  • They offer no guarantee whatsoever that, despite their initial cost and the ongoing subscription, your caravan will ever be recovered. 

My philosophy is to to install as much physical security as possible,  as to defeat each takes a finite amount of time and thieves don’t like to hang around any longer that is absolutely necessary.  A tracker, again when you know how, takes seconds to defeat/disable/remove/destroy. Things like hitch and wheel locks take a lot longer. 

 

Having said all of the above you are never going to stop a determined, and skilful, thief, only make their task that much harder. 

 

I have enormous sympathy for anyone who has their caravan stolen, I think I can only imagine how it must feel :( 

 

If I had my way all convicted thieves would have the word “Thief” tattooed across their forehead! I accept that’s a bit drastic but these days the courts/prison offer no form of deterrent do they? The thought of being labelled for life as a thief would probably make a good few would be thieves thing twice (and maybe it wouldn’t of course) I accept that these days such an idea would be abhorrent to the “bleeding heart liberals” that hold sway across the legislature, but I bet I am not alone in my view! 

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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20 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

I have repeatedly pointed out on this forum that trackers

  • Do absolutely nothing whatsoever to deter/prevent  a theft
  • They are easy to disable when you know how (as in this case they clearly did) 
  • They offer no guarantee whatsoever that, despite their initial cost and the ongoing subscription, your caravan will ever be recovered. 

Are you specifically referring to caravan trackers or vehicle trackers full stop?

 

Stolen vehicle recovery statistics with tracking devices are actually excellent. There are some specific stories of tracking in caravans leading to good recovery results too, few examples here; 

https://www.elystandard.co.uk/news/stolen-caravan-recovered-thanks-to-tracker-technology-4917276

https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/caravans/news/stolen-caravan-worth-30000-recovered-within-24-hours-1

https://insurance-edge.net/2020/05/28/lockdown-caravan-thieves-thwarted-by-tracker/

 

Whilst I don’t subscribe to/or fit trackers (unless my insurance mandate) I do see the security benefit - its a little bit like the CCTV debate where both these devices (CCTV/Tracker) may well lead to catching criminals and that’s good enough for me  

Cheers, Martin

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Posted (edited)

I am not saying trackers are of no benefit whatsoever, what I am saying is that they firstly don’t prevent thefts and secondly they only might assist in recovery in the event of a theft yet cost a lot of money.

 

I am great believer in prevention being better than cure. Physical security provides much greater prevention than a tracker. Physical security cannot assist in recovery in the event if a theft.. 

 

Over  the years I had enough dealings with trackers to  convince me they are not the be all and end all and offer no guarantees. 

 

I will not be investing in any tracker, nor CCTV. 

Edited by Mr Plodd

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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If I had a classic car of great sentimental value and likely irreplaceable, on top of other security measures it would definitely have a tracker fitted in the hope that if it got pinched I would want and might get it back.

 

With my caravan, insured new for old and of no sentimental value whatsoever, no tracker as if it disappeared I wouldn't want it back with the real hope that I never saw it ever again.

Stay safe - Griff.  :ph34r:

Wheels at the front - Discovery 4. Wheels at the back - Bessacarr 845.

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On 06/01/2021 at 14:12, Mr Plodd said:

 

Not if it meant I get to keep what is rightfully mine! 

 

Can someone explain to me why “travellers” are continually treated as being persecuted and misunderstood. The only thing they seem to “misunderstand” is lawful possession along with the definition of theft. 

 

“ A person commits theft if they dishonestly appropriate the property of another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it “  

 

Not too difficult a concept grasp is it?

They do not misunderstand the law, they simply ignore it. Proving who the thief is is usually very difficult without cctv and so they know if the police turn up and take the stolen item, they probably will not be prosecuted for theft so what is the worry?

 

macafee2

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It only takes a hoody or baseball cap (or these days a Covid mask!) to shield a decent view of the face to render any CCTV evidence useless as far as identification of an individual is concerned. Spoken from a position of first hand experience of dealing with low-life’s! Along with the by now obligatory “No comment” interview :angry:

 

If you are  innocent would you just sit there, when being interviewed over an alleged offence and say “No comment” ?  Of course you wouldn’t, you would do everything possible to prove your innocence wouldn’t you? (Well I certainly would)  Only a guilty person remains silent and refuses to answer any questions.

 

 To my mind a no comment interview should be treated as an admission of guilt, but sadly it isn’t! 

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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13 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

I would just point out that the tracker in this case was disabled by the thief !

 

I have repeatedly pointed out on this forum that trackers

  • Do absolutely nothing whatsoever to deter/prevent  a theft
  • They are easy to disable when you know how (as in this case they clearly did) 
  • They offer no guarantee whatsoever that, despite their initial cost and the ongoing subscription, your caravan will ever be recovered. 

My philosophy is to to install as much physical security as possible,  as to defeat each takes a finite amount of time and thieves don’t like to hang around any longer that is absolutely necessary.  A tracker, again when you know how, takes seconds to defeat/disable/remove/destroy. Things like hitch and wheel locks take a lot longer. 

 

Having said all of the above you are never going to stop a determined, and skilful, thief, only make their task that much harder. 

 

I have enormous sympathy for anyone who has their caravan stolen, I think I can only imagine how it must feel :( 

 

If I had my way all convicted thieves would have the word “Thief” tattooed across their forehead! I accept that’s a bit drastic but these days the courts/prison offer no form of deterrent do they? The thought of being labelled for life as a thief would probably make a good few would be thieves thing twice (and maybe it wouldn’t of course) I accept that these days such an idea would be abhorrent to the “bleeding heart liberals” that hold sway across the legislature, but I bet I am not alone in my view! 

My understanding of the law is this used to happen, rather than tattoo,  criminals  were branded on the cheek or hand, and the reason those in the dock have to hold up their hand when swearing on the oath, the hand was marked with their prevoius crimes.. 

 

Branding

Branding Joseph Relph in the Old Bailey, 1778, from Criminal London: a Pictorial History from Medieval Times to 1939 (2002). © Mark Herber

Convicts who successfully pleaded benefit of clergy, and those found guilty of manslaughter instead of murder, were branded on the thumb (with a "T" for theft, "F" for felon, or "M" for murder), so that they would be unable to receive this benefit more than once. The branding took place in the courtroom at the end of the sessions in front of spectators. It is alleged that sometimes criminals convicted of petty theft, or who were able to bribe the executioner, had the branding iron applied when it was cold.

For a short time, between 1699 and January 1707, convicted thieves were branded on the cheek in order to increase the deterrent effect of the punishment, but this rendered convicts unemployable and in 1707 the practice reverted to branding on the thumb. It is possible to search separately to find those sentenced to be branded on the cheek.

Branding as a punishment for those receiving benefit of clergy ended in 1779. The last convict sentenced to branding at the Old Bailey received the sentence in 1789.

 

 

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Back in the 1970's when these scum visited our area we would set up a schedule so that patrol cars visited two or three times a night and activated their sirens. Wake the family disturb the kids and these protected species usually moved on.

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We have a temporary travelers site on a field close to us, on the other side of the valley. I can see if from my garden and walk the dog around the wood surrounding it when they are not there. Its open for April to Oct. The council provide toilets. They use it on the way to and from Appleby . Not open yet this year thank goodness.

 

I walk around it now as its still empty and the rubbish left is quite bad. In the summer, you can see them filling it up with debris. It costs the council £10s of 000  to clean it up.

 

They stole my neighbours dog a couple of years ago when walking in the woods. He got it back by taking some large gentlemen and they found it tied up in the back of a van. No one could say whos van it was.

 

They  drive around like maniacs and often crash on the crossroads in the village. They then jump out of the cars and loads more turn up so the police cant say who was driving. To say I dread them arriving is putting it mildly. They are basically parasites who take but never give back anything except leave their rubbish

 

I have checked but there seems to be no planning permission for this site.

 

22 hours ago, Wildwood said:

If the caravan was taken by  travellers and used by them to live n I doubt you would want it back.

I think they keep them spotless inside and they never use the toilets. But I agree, I wouldn't want it back either

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If you want to see how good a tracker can be, have a look at some of AutomatricsMTrack Youtube videos, yes some tracked items may still not be found, however, a bonus of items found can be convictions and other non tracked items found as in ringing and dismantling gangs, one where one tracked outboard engine resulted finding another 37 !

 

 

 

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Trackers do work but unfortunately some thieves have equipment that enables them to find it and remove it. The recovery rate with them is quite good and without one the chances of getting a caravan back are near enough nil. I cannot accept that they are near useless but like all security devices they are not perfect.

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