Lunar Automotive - The end is almost here!

[David 38]

1 minute ago, hp100425ev said:

 

So if the Swift approved workshop finds a problem covered by warranty, where do you go to have a warranty claim submitted to Swift?  Can your approved workshop submit a claim (most cannot) or do you then have to go to the Original supplying Dealer anyway?

Guess Bailey will be same or similar and if I or my approved serviceman find a fault as my original dealer closed down I have to ask a Bailey dealer to do it and from what I read this is unlikely.  So I would have to go to a Worksop that is approved by Bailey in the next county.  Although on another group a member a couple of hours drive away as offered to help me, so there are helpful dealers about.

[Wildwood]

Swift will allow any NCC registered workshop to do the work but there is no obligation on these to do it, including Swift dealers. Swift will guarantee the work done by their dealers but not by other workshops, but do guarantee the parts. 

Warranty claims have to be submitted by the workshop used although the warranty is a legal contract so possibly they cannot just say go through a repairer but I do not believe this has been tested. 

Many dealers workshops have more work than they can manage for their own customers and do not have the capacity to do work for others although man ae quiet in October through to December most years and might take you in then but no guarantee.

[Legal Eagle]

33 minutes ago, hp100425ev said:

 

So if the Swift approved workshop finds a problem covered by warranty, where do you go to have a warranty claim submitted to Swift?  Can your approved workshop submit a claim (most cannot) or do you then have to go to the Original supplying Dealer anyway?

If the workshop is Swift approved, rather than just NCC AWS affiliated, then they will be approved to carry out warranty work if Swift authorise it. Otherwise you have to go back to the dealer you purchased from. Manufacturers can only compel the supplying dealer to carry out warranty work. If you can find another dealer willing to, and there are some, it's a bonus!

Edited January 16 by Legal Eagle

[montesa]

fwiw .....

A very sad but likely predictable end now (for the P45 Staff & many happy loyal owners) to this drawn out fiasco. 

For me 'Lunar'  (South Africa ) was over before CV19 appeared 12 months ago - but that will be likely raised as the leading cause on the Cara press autopsy. 

No surprises here about the furlough money received but then non payment news report. If the shameless story is true (but denied of course) then for me it nicely sums up the ethics of the new owner(s) all along.

M

[littlebasher]

Wonder if my dealer with finally concede that Lunar are 'done' and actually deal with my warranty issues themselves!

[Kepler]

6 hours ago, montesa said:

fwiw .....

A very sad but likely predictable end now (for the P45 Staff & many happy loyal owners) to this drawn out fiasco. 

For me 'Lunar'  (South Africa ) was over before CV19 appeared 12 months ago - but that will be likely raised as the leading cause on the Cara press autopsy. 

No surprises here about the furlough money received but then non payment news report. If the shameless story is true (but denied of course) then for me it nicely sums up the ethics of the new owner(s) all along.

M

He's lying through his teeth, he's not paid them a penny  in months and not paid into their pensions for 15 months despite taking the money out of their wages. The truth will come out, I mean all the staff have to do is submit their bank statements as evidence and his lies will be revealed! This goes a lot deeper though and the administration company are on cahoots with him. Both Clarity and Lunar had higher bids to take them over but they sold to Nicholas Marks! Let's hope a thorough investigation is carried out. I'm sure it will be as this is tax payers money he has stolen and a lot of it.

[Wildwood]

19 hours ago, littlebasher said:

Wonder if my dealer with finally concede that Lunar are 'done' and actually deal with my warranty issues themselves!

I suspect that the number of claims made against dealers for work needed will have hit many hard and they will do their best to avoid their responsibility. Probably you will need to get tough with them and show you know your rights, or even have to have the work done elsewhere and then sue them. 

[Stevan]

20 hours ago, littlebasher said:

Wonder if my dealer with finally concede that Lunar are 'done' and actually deal with my warranty issues themselves!

The dealer has no responsibility for any warranty issues, the warranty died with Lunar Caravans Ltd! Lunar Automotive made some promises around fulfilling some of Lunar Caravan's responsibilities but I doubt that they will ever actually be fulfilled.

The dealer does however, have responsibilities under the CRA and there are many areas of overlap between CRA and most warranties.

You need to start looking at your issues from a CRA perspective.

[JCCD]

On 16/01/2021 at 12:40, hp100425ev said:

 

So if the Swift approved workshop finds a problem covered by warranty, where do you go to have a warranty claim submitted to Swift?  Can your approved workshop submit a claim (most cannot) or do you then have to go to the Original supplying Dealer anyway?

 

The approved workshop submits the warranty claim.

 

Caravan warranties rely on your dealer remaining in business, and remaining a dealer for that brand. If one day your dealer has disappeared or is no longer a dealer for your caravan brand then your stuck with hoping the manufacturer will assign you an alternative dealer, which could be miles away.

 

Choosing which dealer you buy from probably as important as choosing your caravan. I'm lucky to live just a few minutes from an independent Swift approved workshop, and i would rather give my money to them than the dealer I bought from. I only purchased from my dealer because their dealer special caravan was just what I wanted, otherwise I would have travelled further and bought elsewhere.

 

 

Edited January 17 by JCCD

[JCCD]

On 16/01/2021 at 16:31, littlebasher said:

Wonder if my dealer with finally concede that Lunar are 'done' and actually deal with my warranty issues themselves!

 

I fear Stevan is correct in his post above.

 

Your dealer is obliged to carry out the warranty work that Lunar approve. But now that there is no Lunar to approve it, then effectively your caravan has no warranty, which is a nice little 'get out' for your dealer. Unless there is any goodwill fro your dealer, you will probably have to pay for any work. If so, unless you feel any loyalty to your dealer, I would take it to an independent workshop if you have one nearby.

 

This could happen to anyone if their caravan manufacturer went bust.

 

 

4 hours ago, Wildwood said:

I suspect that the number of claims made against dealers for work needed will have hit many hard and they will do their best to avoid their responsibility. Probably you will need to get tough with them and show you know your rights, or even have to have the work done elsewhere and then sue them. 

 

Sadly, I wouldn't have thought he has many rights under the circumstances.

 

A couple we know purchased their first ever caravan during lockdown (as many did) and they bought an 18 month old Lunar. I haven't told them the bad news as I feel awkward doing so, probably shattering their dreams. I see no point in worrying them as hopefully they won't have any warranty issues.

 

 

 

Edited January 17 by JCCD

[Stevan]

1 hour ago, JCCD said:

 

 

 

A couple we know purchased their first ever caravan during lockdown (as many did) and they bought an 18 month old Lunar. I haven't told them the bad news as I feel awkward doing so, probably shattering their dreams. I see no point in worrying them as hopefully they won't have any warranty issues.

 

 

 

The reality is not that black! After 18 months, there is not normally much cover left in the original warranty anyway.

As long as your friends bought from a dealer they still have rights under CRA which at this point in time probably offer more protection than the remains of the warranty would have done.

[Towtug]

I would think that trying to get the dealers to discharge their responsibilities  to owners individually will be difficult,  it always is.

 

In most cases taking on grievances collectively is a more efficient method.

 

If there are many bona fide issues, I would have thought you need to organise yourselves and prepare to fight your causes collectively.

[Towtug]

https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-lancashire-55676717

[Legal Eagle]

12 hours ago, Stevan said:

The reality is not that black! After 18 months, there is not normally much cover left in the original warranty anyway.

As long as your friends bought from a dealer they still have rights under CRA which at this point in time probably offer more protection than the remains of the warranty would have done.

The major problem that may arise with the demise of a manufacturer is the availability of parts making a repair disproportionately too costly or impossible to achieve. Section 23(3)(a) & (4) CRA 2015 addresses that and gives the trader some protection:

(3)The consumer cannot require the trader to repair or replace the goods if that remedy (the repair or the replacement)—

(a) is impossible, or

(b) is disproportionate compared to the other of those remedies.

(4) Either of those remedies is disproportionate compared to the other if it imposes costs on the trader which, compared to those imposed by the other, are unreasonable, taking into account—

(a) the value which the goods would have if they conformed to the contract,

(b) the significance of the lack of conformity, and

(c) whether the other remedy could be effected without significant inconvenience to the consumer.

......(8) In this Chapter, “repair” in relation to goods that do not conform to a contract, means making them conform.

However, under Section 24 the consumer may claim a price reduction (partial refund) if Section 23(3) applies.

[Wildwood]

I take the point about spares, but in reality unless you have an accident that requires side panels just about everything else is available, even front and rear panels, although these are not genuine Lunar but can be bought from Caravan Panels. Given Lunars record they might even be better made. Just about everything from the chassis up is bought in and can be bought from elsewhere, although you can get caught out with some so all is not lost.

[littlebasher]

Another point of interest is Insurance

 

I was speaking to my insurer broker about renewal earlier. The lady warned me that some insurance companies will no longer cover Lunar products due to the lack of replacement parts!

 

Apparently not an issue with the company that covers me, but definitely something worth considering !

[David 38]

Well over the years I've had several old and out of business caravans never had problem with spares or insurance.

[JanandJay]

Way before old Lunar got into any trouble, they had problems sourcing me a new vanity sink for my 4 year old caravan. 
Luckily Grantham Caravans were able to get one made for me as a one off

 

[Stevan]

32 minutes ago, Wildwood said:

I take the point about spares, but in reality unless you have an accident that requires side panels just about everything else is available, even front and rear panels, although these are not genuine Lunar but can be bought from Caravan Panels. Given Lunars record they might even be better made. Just about everything from the chassis up is bought in and can be bought from elsewhere, although you can get caught out with some so all is not lost.

Absolutely, chassis are pure AL-KO, most interior equipment is from a very limited range of third party suppliers and most of the fittings can either be fabricated from scratch or other maker's fittings can be adapted and even exterior panels and ends can often be repaired, even though a warranty or insurance repair would normally mean a new panel.

[JCCD]

23 hours ago, Stevan said:

The reality is not that black! After 18 months, there is not normally much cover left in the original warranty anyway.

As long as your friends bought from a dealer they still have rights under CRA which at this point in time probably offer more protection than the remains of the warranty would have done.

 

It was a private purchase.

[thensum]

Will the Lunar brand ever come back?  Wonder what the old Lunar Caravans (Sherdley Road) management team are doing  now? Their attractive selling point 'lightweight Lunars' back in the 80s and 90s enabled most caravans to be towed by average family saloons, hatchbacks and estates and they were a poplar choice.  My parents had 3 models from their Planet range, 1988 Lunar Moonlight 5, then a 1991 Lunar Moonlight and then a 1993 Lunar Jupiter all dry, all great vans with lovely trim and super light to tow.  Their Jupiter was really nice with wooden sliding doors to close off the rear dinette and if you wanted to this could be left made up as a fixed bed.

 

With the emerging electric car market then there must be strong need for lightweight Caravans?  It's a shame to think the Lunar has gone for good and less choice for consumers.

[Wildwood]

On 18/01/2021 at 12:16, littlebasher said:

Another point of interest is Insurance

 

I was speaking to my insurer broker about renewal earlier. The lady warned me that some insurance companies will no longer cover Lunar products due to the lack of replacement parts!

 

Apparently not an issue with the company that covers me, but definitely something worth considering !

I think you will find that most policies do have a clause that limits the insurers liability to the last published cost of any parts not now available which should allow most companies to insure them. In practice the lack of parts can apply to companies still there after five years as they often do not keep the patterns needed to make more.

On 13/02/2021 at 17:16, thensum said:

Will the Lunar brand ever come back?  Wonder what the old Lunar Caravans (Sherdley Road) management team are doing  now? Their attractive selling point 'lightweight Lunars' back in the 80s and 90s enabled most caravans to be towed by average family saloons, hatchbacks and estates and they were a poplar choice.  My parents had 3 models from their Planet range, 1988 Lunar Moonlight 5, then a 1991 Lunar Moonlight and then a 1993 Lunar Jupiter all dry, all great vans with lovely trim and super light to tow.  Their Jupiter was really nice with wooden sliding doors to close off the rear dinette and if you wanted to this could be left made up as a fixed bed.

 

With the emerging electric car market then there must be strong need for lightweight Caravans?  It's a shame to think the Lunar has gone for good and less choice for consumers.

I rather think they have gone. There is certainly room in the market for the very light models, but I think the value in the name has gone and most of the machinery has been sold off. 

[David 38]

3 minutes ago, Wildwood said:

I think you will find that most policies do have a clause that limits the insurers liability to the last published cost of any parts not now available which should allow most companies to insure them. In practice the lack of parts can apply to companies still there after five years as they often do not keep the patterns needed to make more.

I rather think they have gone. There is certainly room in the market for the very light models, but I think the value in the name has gone and most of the machinery has been sold off. 

I would say a good number of caravans I have owned the maker was no longer in business but I never had problem with buying insurance.

[PMW]

On 18/01/2021 at 12:16, littlebasher said:

I was speaking to my insurer broker about renewal earlier. The lady warned me that some insurance companies will no longer cover Lunar products due to the lack of replacement parts!

 

I think this sounds like insurer's speak for "please don't bother trying to get a quote elsewhere". I have had no problem thus far insuring my Lunar and being a 2006 model the trading status of the manufacturer is largely irrelevant as they would not have any manufacturer specific parts still in stock anyway, and yet still they insure me. It could stop you getting some specific types of cover such as new for old, but very unlikely to cover insurance in general. 

 

My 'van sits on an AL-KO chassis, parts are usually available from them if needed, the water and heating system are third party, the lights are third party as is the cooker and microwave. The window blinds are third party, the cupboard catches are the caravan standard push to lock type and available from countless sellers on ebay. It had holes on the side wall when I bought it after an argument with awning poles on a seasonal pitch. Body filler has made an excellent repair, it's just waiting for the side panels to be resprayed. Awning rails are industry standard and widely available. About the only things specific to the van are the windows, front and end panels and shower tray. If any of those suffer damage which cannot be repaired all can be made to order by several companies around the web if needed though breakers yards may well have them, plenty were made, which would be no different to a van of that age of any other make. 

 

 

[littlebasher]

7 hours ago, PMW said:

 

I think this sounds like insurer's speak for "please don't bother trying to get a quote elsewhere". I have had no problem thus far insuring my Lunar and being a 2006 model the trading status of the manufacturer is largely irrelevant as they would not have any manufacturer specific parts still in stock anyway, and yet still they insure me. It could stop you getting some specific types of cover such as new for old, but very unlikely to cover insurance in general. 

 

 

Bear in mind, my cover is New for old, which is a bit more difficult with Lunar now !

 

 

Also......

 

My dealer has also now finally conceded that Lunar are a dead duck

 

They've kept me hanging for the last 9 months whilst claiming they were waiting for Lunar to approve my warranty repairs.

 

Now of course, they have completely washed their hands of me. Best they'll do is an insulting contribution towards the labour costs of any remedial work.

Edited February 17 by littlebasher