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Will you be having the covid vaccine?


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This has not been rushed by the govt. You surely don't believe the govt has any thing to do with the development and testing of this vaccine. It has had normal proper testing that any vaccine has. 

The difference is that we, and other countries, have for a few years, been preparing for a world wide pandemic when a vaccine will need to be developed and tested in a very short time. 

That is what has been achieved and we should be proud of our scientists for doing that. 

Graham

Unless otherwise stated all posts are my personal opinion 

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We will, it seems, be well to the front of the queue, unless these early slots get "highjacked" for some reason.

 

We are very keen to take it up, not only because we are reported to be the virus's "favourite species" for wreaking havoc, but we  both on family track records have so little quality  future  left to look forward to, missing another year is not an "attractive" thought.

We will gamble on the medics having it right and potentially us getting a few more quality years, than risk getting Covid and suffer its statistical impact on us.

 

 

 

Edited by JTQ
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I am happy that this vaccine has been tested on tens of thousands and has passed all of the regulatory tests. I am sure there will be the odd individual who might have an adverse reaction or suffer some side effects, but to my mind the side effects of Covid (death) are a worse possibility. 

 

Personal choice of course.

 

Out of interest are you not somewhat grateful that some have decided to receive this vaccine so others, such as yourself, might benefit?

 

 If everyone adopted your “wait and see” we probably wouldn’t have any medicines or vaccines at all would we? 

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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Looking at it logically, if you do not get vaccinated you will almost certainly catch it at some point and if you are high risk you are likely to be in trouble. It is difficult to see the risks of not being vaccinated as being safer than having it done, although some may want to ask.

Essentially to me it is like refusing to leave the Titanic in case the lifeboat sinks!

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1 hour ago, JCCD said:

However, those medications weren't rushed out by a government prioritising the countries economy before individuals health.

 

Covid 19 vaccines "weren't rushed out".   Never heard of SARS-Covid 2?    There are many Covid strains.   The latest vaccines are all based on the scientists' work done in previous 20 years, which is why they could immediately jump to Phase 3 trials instead of starting at Phase 1.   Do you have a flu jab each year?   That's a new and different vaccine every year, but it's based on previous research so doesn't need a prolonged trials period.

Citroen C5-X7 Tourer+Avondale Rialto 480/2
https://jondogoescaravanning.com

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What find concerning is the manufacturer of vaccine have signed an indemnity to say that they are not libel for any side effects caused by the vaccine?...

 

Any redress has to by directed to the government !.

 

 

(Told you I was a cynic )

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Side effects that have been mentioned are maybe a headache and a slight fever. Anyone worried about these should try prostate cancer hormone therapy for 3 years as well as radiotherapy. The side effects from those for me were a lot worse, sweating every 20 minutes (for the 3 years), headaches, slight fever, bowel problems, depression, constantly tired, heart beat changes, loss of bone density and others I can not remember due to the memory loss effect. The vaccine will be a walk in the park compared to that yet I knew the effects before starting it but without the treatment may no longer be here after an unpleasant death. When offered the vaccine if it does give me 2 heads then at least I will have somebody to Talk to and hopefully will have similar interests :D.

 

If we end up all having to get the Pfizer one with its logistics problems being highlighted by the media, then I suspect those who do not take it up will be put to the back of the queue and it could be a long time before they get the chance again. That might happen anyway since the authorities will not want to mess about getting people vaccinated.

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30 minutes ago, PeterR said:

What find concerning is the manufacturer of vaccine have signed an indemnity to say that they are not libel for any side effects caused by the vaccine?...

 

Any redress has to by directed to the government !.

 

I don't think that would have any legal validity in the UK. 

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5 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

Out of interest are you not somewhat grateful that some have decided to receive this vaccine so others, such as yourself, might benefit?

 

If you are referring to me, then I've already acknowledged that you are all my guinea pigs and I have already thanked you all for your service in a previous post. But once more just for you....thank you for your service. People like you will directly help people like me, and I will be eternally grateful to each and every one of you.

 

The only hiccup in my grand master plan is that my employment category may be some of the first to be offered the vaccine, and my employers may make life difficult for me if I'm not vaccinated, time will tell as I can't see how an employer can impose medical treatment, but i'm sure they will find a way. I'll be holding out to the very last minute. I just hope I don't find myself ill on vaccination day and have to phone in sick!!

 

 

 

 

Edited by JCCD
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1 hour ago, PeterR said:

What find concerning is the manufacturer of vaccine have signed an indemnity to say that they are not libel for any side effects caused by the vaccine?...      Any redress has to by directed to the government !.

 

This information is all mixed up.      We all know that every medicine has its side-effects.   They are usually listed on the information sheet included in the box.   Some medicines have more side-effects than others, but it always emphasizes that not everyone will get them.   Even aspirin has side-effects.   They've said that with the Covid jab you MAY get a sore arm, a fever, fatigue, headache, muscle and joint pain for a few days.    But they say the same about the flu jab - so nothing new there.      Were you to suffer some strange and severe side-effect from the vaccine which caused you great trouble, you could take legal action against the pharma company.   If the judge agreed that you had a case, he would award you damages against the company.   What has been agreed is that the Government would recompense the company for any damages they paid out.  

Citroen C5-X7 Tourer+Avondale Rialto 480/2
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The OP asks will you be having the vaccine.

Yes I will.

I wish everyone would but appreciate that some people, for their own valid reasons, won’t.

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5 hours ago, MalH said:

I don't think that would have any legal validity in the UK. 

The fact is that the UK Government have amended the relevant legislation so as to provide indemnity under the clinical negligence scheme from any legal action to all covid-19 vaccine developers, manufacturers and those who will administer them. The Government have made themselves liable, now and in the future. Look under the heading Safety and risk on the BMA website.

https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/covid-19/gp-practices/covid-19-vaccination-programme

 

The same thing has happened in a number of other countries, including Australia, Russia, USA and EU member states. It is nothing new and has been provided previously for smallpox and influenza vaccines in acknowledgement of the urgent need for distribution.

Edited by Legal Eagle
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2 hours ago, JCCD said:

The only hiccup in my grand master plan is that my employment category may be some of the first to be offered the vaccine, and my employers may make life difficult for me if I'm not vaccinated, time will tell as I can't see how an employer can impose medical treatment, but i'm sure they will find a way. I'll be holding out to the very last minute. I just hope I don't find myself ill on vaccination day and have to phone in sick!!

 

2 hours ago, JCCD said:

 

...........and my employers may make life difficult for me if I'm not vaccinated

 

Quite the reverse I expect, you would be making it difficult for yourself, but want to blame it on others.

 

You also said ......................is that my employment category may be some of the first to be offered the vaccine,

 

That you suggest your employment category may entail offering those in that employment the first to be offered it, by either the company, and, or, the health service / government, suggests that they expect those employees, offered, not only to be at high risk of  contracting Covid, but at high risk of passing it on to others.

 

So in refusing the inoculation, your company may decide, quite rightly, that to protect you and others, they will move you onto other duties, where the risk is less, with a possible re-numeration, shift pattern, work area, job prospect, promotion change, more than likely not for the good, but you will I'm sure thank them, for protecting your health and still keeping you in employment of some sort.

 

Then, if you wish to move on, but stay in the same category of employment with the same risk and the prospective employer refuses to employ you because you haven't been inoculated, what then ?

 

................... I can't see how an employer can impose medical treatment, but i'm sure they will find a way.

 

An employer can't impose a medical procedure on anyone, so the possibility of them ' finding a way ' is a moot point, the choice will be yours only.

 

However it is incumbent on all employers, that they can and must, ensure that their employees are not a health danger, to themselves, other employees and ' customers / clients '.

 

There are very many industries where needing to have inoculations against certain diseases and keeping them up to date is a requirement of continued employment and so it should be, especially in the NHS where exposure prone procedures are involved and in many more minor procedures.

 

They are not, like some folk, selfish and keep up with their inoculations simply to protect themselves and others.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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REG 174 INFORMATION FOR UK RECIPIENTS
1

Package leaflet: Information for the recipient
COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 concentrate for solution for injection
   This medicine does not have a UK marketing authorisation but has been given authorisation for temporary supply by the UK Department of Health and Social Care and the Medicines & Healthcare products Regulatory Agency for active immunization to prevent COVID-19 disease caused by SARS-CoV-2 virus in individuals aged 16 years of age and over.
Reporting of side effects
As with any new medicine in the UK this product will be closely monitored to allow quick identification of new safety information. You can help by reporting any side effects you may get. See the end of section 4 for how to report side effects.
     Read all of this leaflet carefully before you receive this vaccine because it contains important information for you.
 Keep this leaflet. You may need to read it again.
 If you have any further questions, ask your doctor, pharmacist or nurse.
 If you get any side effects, Talk to your doctor, pharmacist or nurse. This includes any possible side effects not listed in this leaflet. See section 4.
What is in this leaflet
1. What COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 is and what it is used for
2. What you need to know before you receive COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2
3. How COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 is given
4. Possible side effects
5. How to store COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2
6. Contents of the pack and other information
1. What COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 is and what it is used for
COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 is a vaccine used for active immunisation to prevent COVID- 19 disease caused by SARS-CoV-2 virus.
COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 is given to adults and adolescents from 16 years.
The vaccine triggers the body’s natural production of antibodies and stimulates immune cells to protect against COVID-19 disease.
2. What you need to know before you receive COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2
COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 should not be given
 if you are allergic to the active substance or any of the other ingredients of this medicine (listed in section 6). Signs of an allergic reaction may include itchy skin rash, shortness of breath and swelling of the face or tongue. Contact your doctor or healthcare professional immediately or go to the nearest hospital emergency room right away if you have an allergic reaction. It can be life-threatening.
Warnings and precautions
Talk to your doctor, pharmacist or nurse before you are given the vaccine if you have:
2

 had any problems following previous administration of COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 such as allergic reaction or breathing problems
 a severe illness with high fever
However, a mild fever or upper airway infection, like a cold, are not reasons to delay vaccination.
 a weakened immune system, such as due to HIV infection, or are on a medicine that affects your immune system
 a bleeding problem, bruise easily or use a medicine to inhibit blood clotting
As with any vaccine, COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 may not fully protect all those who receive it. No data are currently available in individuals with a weakened immune system or who are taking chronic treatment that suppresses or prevents immune responses.
Children and adolescents
COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 is not recommended for children under 16 years.
Other medicines and COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2
Tell your doctor or pharmacist if you are using, have recently used or might use any other medicines or have recently received any other vaccine.
Pregnancy and breast-feeding
There is currently limited data available on the use of this vaccine in pregnant women. If you are pregnant or breast-feeding, think you may be pregnant or are planning to have a baby, ask your doctor or pharmacist for advice before you receive this vaccine. As a precaution, you should avoid becoming pregnant until at least 2 months after the vaccine.
Driving and using machines
COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 has no or negligible influence on the ability to drive and use machines. However, some of the effects mentioned under section 4 ‘Possible side effects’ may temporarily affect the ability to drive or use machines. Do not drive or operate machinery until you are sure that you are not affected.
COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 contains sodium and potassium
This vaccine contains potassium, less than 1 mmol (39 mg) per dose, i.e. essentially ‘potassium-free’. This vaccine contains less than 1 mmol sodium (23 mg) per dose, that is to say essentially ‘sodium- free’.
3. How COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 is given
COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 is given after dilution as an injection of 0.3 mL into a muscle of your upper arm.
You will receive 2 injections, given 21 days apart.
If you receive one dose of COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2, you should receive a second dose of the same vaccine 21 days later to complete the vaccination series. Protection against COVID-19 disease may not be effective until at least 7 days after the second dose.
If you have any further questions on the use of COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2, ask your doctor, pharmacist or nurse.
4. Possible side effects
3

Like all vaccines, COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 can cause side effects, although not everybody gets them.
Most side effects are mild or moderate and go away within a few days of appearing. If side effects such as pain and/or fever are troublesome, they can be treated by medicines for pain and fever such as paracetamol.
Side effects may occur with following frequencies: Very common: may affect more than 1 in 10 people
 pain at injection site
 tiredness
 headache
 muscle pain
 chills
 joint pain
 fever
Common: may affect up to 1 in 10 people
 injection site swelling
 redness at injection site
 nausea
Uncommon: may affect up to 1 in 100 people
 enlarged lymph nodes
 feeling unwell
Reporting of side effects
If you get any side effects, Talk to your doctor, pharmacist or nurse. This includes any possible side effects not listed in this leaflet. You can also report side effects directly via the Coronavirus Yellow Card reporting site https://coronavirus-yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/
or search for MHRA Yellow Card in the Google Play or Apple App Store
and include the vaccine brand and batch/Lot number if available.
By reporting side effects, you can help provide more information on the safety of this vaccine.
5. How to store COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2
Do not use this medicine after the expiry date which is stated on the box and label after EXP. The expiry date refers to the last day of that month.
Store in freezer at -80 °C to -60 °C.
Store in the original package in order to protect from light.
After thawing, the vaccine should be diluted and administered by a healthcare professional and used within 6 hours. Any unused vaccine should be discarded.
6. Contents of the pack and other information
What COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 contains
 The active substance is BNT162b2 RNA.
After dilution, the vial contains 5 doses, of 0.3 mL with 30 micrograms mRNA each.
 The other ingredients are:
- ALC-0315 = (4-hydroxybutyl)azanediyl)bis(hexane-6,1-diyl)bis(2-hexyldecanoate),
- ALC-0159 = 2[(polyethylene glycol)-2000]-N,N-ditetradecylacetamide,
- 1,2-Distearoyl-sn-glycero-3-phosphocholine,
- cholesterol,
 4

- potassium chloride,
- potassium dihydrogen phosphate,
- sodium chloride,
- disodium hydrogen phosphate dihydrate,
- sucrose
What COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 looks like and contents of the pack
The vaccine is a white to off-white solution provided in a multidose vial of 5 doses in a 2 mL clear vial (type I glass), with a rubber stopper and a flip-off plastic cap with aluminium seal.
Pack size: 195 vials
Manufacturer(s)
BioNTech Manufacturing GmbH Kupferbergterrasse 17-19
55116 Mainz, Germany
-----

from Gov web site if interested go to  yellow card reporting site above and it you how it will be diluted before administering it nothing in the should worry anyone.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5
 

No worse than any flu vaccine in my unqualified opinion.

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1 hour ago, Silversurf said:

 

...........and my employers may make life difficult for me if I'm not vaccinated

 

Quite the reverse I expect, you would be making it difficult for yourself, but want to blame it on others.

 

You also said ......................is that my employment category may be some of the first to be offered the vaccine,

 

That you suggest your employment category may entail offering those in that employment the first to be offered it, by either the company, and, or, the health service / government, suggests that they expect those employees, offered, not only to be at high risk of  contracting Covid, but at high risk of passing it on to others.

 

So in refusing the inoculation, your company may decide, quite rightly, that to protect you and others, they will move you onto other duties, where the risk is less, with a possible re-numeration, shift pattern, work area, job prospect, promotion change, more than likely not for the good, but you will I'm sure thank them, for protecting your health and still keeping you in employment of some sort.

 

Then, if you wish to move on, but stay in the same category of employment with the same risk and the prospective employer refuses to employ you because you haven't been inoculated, what then ?

 

................... I can't see how an employer can impose medical treatment, but i'm sure they will find a way.

 

An employer can't impose a medical procedure on anyone, so the possibility of them ' finding a way ' is a moot point, the choice will be yours only.

 

However it is incumbent on all employers, that they can and must, ensure that their employees are not a health danger, to themselves, other employees and ' customers / clients '.

 

There are very many industries where needing to have inoculations against certain diseases and keeping them up to date is a requirement of continued employment and so it should be, especially in the NHS where exposure prone procedures are involved and in many more minor procedures.

 

They are not, like some folk, selfish and keep up with their inoculations simply to protect themselves and others.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You seem quite upset.

 

Thankfully I can't be moved to other duties and my wage will remain the same.

Edited by JCCD
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7 minutes ago, JCCD said:

 

You seem quite upset.

 

Thankfully I can't be moved to other duties and my wage will remain the same.

No, not upset at all, just pointing out some facts.

 

Thankfully I can't be moved to other duties and my wage will remain the same.

 

The same thoughts of many tens of thousands of people, from those in the highest echelons of companies, to the cleaners, to self employed, you name it, that's until the penny suddenly drops, that everyone is totally expendable and no one is irreplaceable....................when severance letter, the redundancy letter or the P45 suddenly appears.

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1 hour ago, Silversurf said:

No, not upset at all, just pointing out some facts.

 

Thankfully I can't be moved to other duties and my wage will remain the same.

 

The same thoughts of many tens of thousands of people, from those in the highest echelons of companies, to the cleaners, to self employed, you name it, that's until the penny suddenly drops, that everyone is totally expendable and no one is irreplaceable....................when severance letter, the redundancy letter or the P45 suddenly appears.

 

Those so called 'facts' don't apply to me, thankfully.

 

Edited by JCCD
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On 03/12/2020 at 14:06, Paul1957 said:

Well I guess you not having a vaccine will mean you will have to continue stopping in, not going places, not seeing your family, wearing masks, hand washing, keeping 2 m apart.

 

Why would anyone not having the vaccine need to stay in ?

Why couldn't they go places ?

Why couldn't they see families ?

If you you think by having this vaccine you will become indestructible overnight you are very much mistaken.

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4 hours ago, weekender said:

REG 174 INFORMATION FOR UK RECIPIENTS
1

Package leaflet: Information for the recipient
COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 concentrate for solution for injection
 This medicine does not have a UK marketing authorisation but has been given authorisation for temporary supply by the UK Department of Health and Social Care and the Medicines & Healthcare products Regulatory Agency for active immunization to prevent COVID-19 disease caused by SARS-CoV-2 virus in individuals aged 16 years of age and over.
Reporting of side effects
As with any new medicine in the UK this product will be closely monitored to allow quick identification of new safety information. You can help by reporting any side effects you may get. See the end of section 4 for how to report side effects.

5
 

No worse than any flu vaccine in my unqualified opinion.

 

That's the part that is most relevant, would you take medication from your doctor and then he tells you that there may be some side effects that we don't know about.
Just give us a bell if you have any weird side effects mate   :)

 

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15 hours ago, WispMan said:

This has not been rushed by the govt. You surely don't believe the govt has any thing to do with the development and testing of this vaccine. It has had normal proper testing that any vaccine has. 


I think you will find the WHO makes that statement untrue.  Vaccines are tested over many years before being licensed.  So long term effects will be unknown.

 

In the past, vaccines have been developed through a series of steps that can take many years. Now, given the urgent need for a COVID-19 vaccine, unprecedented financial investments and scientific collaborations are changing how vaccines are developed. This means that some of the steps in the research and development process are happening in parallel, while still maintaining strict clinical and safety standards. For example, some clinical trials are evaluating multiple vaccines at the same time. However, this does not make the studies any less rigorous.

15 hours ago, WispMan said:

The difference is that we, and other countries, have for a few years, been preparing for a world wide pandemic when a vaccine will need to be developed and tested in a very short time. 

 

A Pandemic of what ?  Do you have a link to show what we and other countries have been preparing for ?

 How can you prepare for something that is not known about ?

15 hours ago, WispMan said:

That is what has been achieved and we should be proud of our scientists for doing that. 

 

If it was 'our' scientists that had got the contract I'd totally agree, instead it's another American company taking billions of pounds off our health service. 

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Odds,  all meds have side effects plus some that we don't know about hence the yellow card.

You are right that some manufacturers are making a profit, whereas some are not, see link.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/nov/10/pfizer-and-biontech-could-make-13bn-from-coronavirus-vaccine

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Given all the information published on the government web site about the vaccine much more than I posted here it’s perfectly reasonable to evaluate when your own needs will benefit.

   Ask friends who are health care professionals from my conversations not all feel totally relaxed about it, biggest factor for some is no long term data let’s not bully people, trust come with time.

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6 minutes ago, weekender said:

, biggest factor for some is no long term data let’s not bully people, trust come with time.

 

The  important few words in that are? “No long term data”  and just how can we get “long term” data when we simply cannot afford the time for that long term data to be collected, there is a desperate need to combat this virus NOW?  The death toll in the U.K. is now over fifty thousand, some had underlying health issues, but if they hadn’t contracted Covid they would probably still be alive.

 

It has been tested on tens of thousands of volunteers, there have not been any adverse side effects identified so what exactly are people’s concerns?  It is almost certain that for some individuals there are going to be, as yet unidentified, side effects.

 

To my way of thinking it’s all about risk perception. My perception is that the risk of any serious side effects are much lower than the ultimate risk should I contract Covid (death) So, on the balance of probabilities I am happy to be right at the head of the queue !  

 

At least (so far) no one on here is suggesting Covid is caused by 5G or the vaccine contains nano particles to enable “them” to track us all :rolleyes:   

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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I know NOTHING about medicine but I have spent 30 years in a product development role in engineering. The virus vaccine has NOT had corners cut at all, I have done similar in the past where a product has had to be developed quickly due to a quality or safety issue. The reason things aren’t normally done this way is because it costs a LOT more and carries a greater financial risk in the development process, not a greater safety risk.

 

 I have no problem with anyone refusing the vaccine as it means I’ll step forward a place in the queue.

2018 Volvo V90 and 2018 Swift Sprite Quattro EB

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24 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

At least (so far) no one on here is suggesting Covid is caused by 5G or the vaccine contains nano particles to enable “them” to track us all :rolleyes:   

It's only a matter of time before the Darwin award nominations begin to appear! 🤣

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