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Will you be having the covid vaccine?


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Whilst I reluctantly had my first AZ jab, I think there are many issues and I can't quite figure out why we are the only country where the population is so pro this vaccine.

 

Issues I have:

 

- The trial was a mess with multiple efficacy rates quoted. That along with a dosage mis-calculation which seemed to suggest a half dose improved efficacy but then we are given full doses. Then a muck-up with the numbers at the end of the US trial.

 

- Leaving aside blood clots, the side effects appear much worse with the AZ vaccine than the Pfizer / Moderna. My wife was ill for a week. The AZ vaccine for medical staff in Europe had to be scheduled in batches because there was so much absenteeism and side effects after the jab. 

 

- Health workers in the UK are being given mainly the Pfizer jab.

 

- Germany found a link to blood clots along with some Scandinavian countries very early and with very low numbers vaccinated. For weeks we denied such a link. Then seven cases came to light. Then 79. Now the risk is the same as the DVT risk on a long haul flight. People go to a lot of trouble taking aspirin and wearing flight socks because of that risk! This slow drip feeding of the bad news stinks of government interference.

 

- The AZ vaccine is useless against the South African variant (10% efficacy) which is why it's not being rolled out there. Pfizer / Moderna is still effective. I haven't checked this but someone told me the SA variant is common in France so won't be long before it crosses here.

 

Yes the AZ vaccine has just about achieved herd immunity here, but this pandemic still has a long way to play out. Will we see an exponential rise in blood clots after the second jab which apparently causes a stronger immune response than the first one? Will we get hit by a big third wave when the vaccine isn't effective against the variants?

 

I'd have been much happier if we'd secured more of the Pfizer and reckon we will be the first and last country to roll out AZ in such a big way...

 

 

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4 minutes ago, P101 said:

Whilst I reluctantly had my first AZ jab, I think there are many issues and I can't quite figure out why we are the only country where the population is so pro this vaccine.....

 

You must be mistaken as when the vaccines were announced many on here said they would be completely safe as they had been working on the vaccine for years, and wouldn't accept that there could be risks  :D

 

People like me were criticised for being cautious and not being in a rush to receive a vaccine.

 

 

Edited by JCCD
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1 minute ago, JCCD said:

 

You must be mistaken as when the vaccines were announced many on here said they would be completely safe as they had been working on the vaccine for years, and wouldn't accept that there could be risks  :D

Oh excellent. Love a money-back guarantee!!!

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We had our first AZ jab on 6th February at home.  The doctor who visited said that he would be back on 8th April to give us our second dose.   He didn't turn up which was a pity as my husband had cancelled his back massage at the Cancer Support Group.   I rang the surgery to ask why the doctor hadn't visited and was told that they were awaiting a batch of vaccines to be delivered.  

 

We just want our second doses to be done as soon as possible and we have no hang ups about having it.  

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28 minutes ago, P101 said:

Will we see an exponential rise in blood clots after the second jab which apparently causes a stronger immune response than the first one

The juries are still out on the exact correlation, or cause, between the jab and clots at the moment so any rise, if any, will only be seen when a substantial number of people have their second jabs and that may well be weeks or months later, the AZ vaccine works in a totally different way to the Pfizer with different constituents, but both have the same end result, therefore the immune response and the strength of it per se may not be the cause, it could well be the constituents and the carrier ( as in the fluid )that could be the culprits.

 

28 minutes ago, P101 said:

Will we get hit by a big third wave when the vaccine isn't effective against the variants?

 

The more worrying third wave will, in all likelihood, turn up in a few months and will be when all and sundry ignore the sanitation measures which still be needed to adhered to and rush to congregate in their tens and hundreds when their cages are opened, as twice before....................third time lucky or unlucky. 🤷‍♀️

 

Deja vu or watch this space, whichever it apt.

 

 

Edited by Silversurf
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From my experience the side effects of the Pfizer jab are worse than the AZ one. I had AZ and later that day had a head ache and felt warm overnight but then ok. My younger brother had the Pfizer one and he was ill for a week. 

 

A possible link between blood clots and the vaccines (AZ and Pfizer since it has been reported they equally occur in people with both vaccines)  has still to be proven and since they are a common thing every day in normal times it may be difficult to prove. It has been reported though that about 30% of people who get COVID have blood clots and about 2% who catch it die and a higher % have long term effects. To get the risk in perspective, if 1000000 people have the AZ vaccine and it has been reported 1 might die from a blood clot, however, if the same number of people catch COVID without a vaccine then 20000 could die. Younger people are less likely to die than those over about 40 so any potential death risk to them from COVID is reduced (apart from long term effects) so the 1 in a million AZ death risk is then against maybe 1000 or less in a million COVID death risk. Hence why the AZ will not now be given to younger people.

 

The reason why health care people might be given the Pfizer jab could be due to the hospitals more likely to have refrigeration to keep it at -80°C whereas the mass vaccination centres would not have it. There are also the supply quantities available and the cost. The Pfizer jab was also approved before the AZ one so early on you could only get the Pfizer one.

Edited by Paul1957
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1 hour ago, Silversurf said:

The juries are still out on the exact correlation, or cause, between the jab and clots at the moment so any rise, if any, will only be seen when a substantial number of people have their second jabs and that may well be weeks or months later, the AZ vaccine works in a totally different way to the Pfizer with different constituents, but both have the same end result, therefore the immune response and the strength of it per se may not be the cause, it could well be the constituents and the carrier ( as in the fluid )that could be the culprits.

 

 

The more worrying third wave will, in all likelihood, turn up in a few months and will be when all and sundry ignore the sanitation measures which still be needed to adhered to and rush to congregate in their tens and hundreds when their cages are opened, as twice before....................third time lucky or unlucky. 🤷‍♀️

 

Deja vu or watch this space, whichever it apt.

 

 

I've had both Pfizer jabs and was fine on both, can I add that I am also okay when I have the flu jab. My OH had the AZ jab and felt unwell for a day, we're all different .  More importantly , in your last paragraph saying that people are ignoring  sanitation measures, I too have noticed this lately when going into shops and folk are not using the sanitisers, either on their hands or on the trolleys, they don't wait now either, so are people thinking that because things are getting easier that it's all over, I wonder.

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13 minutes ago, joanie said:

I've had both Pfizer jabs and was fine on both, can I add that I am also okay when I have the flu jab. My OH had the AZ jab and felt unwell for a day, we're all different .  More importantly , in your last paragraph saying that people are ignoring  sanitation measures, I too have noticed this lately when going into shops and folk are not using the sanitisers, either on their hands or on the trolleys, they don't wait now either, so are people thinking that because things are getting easier that it's all over, I wonder.

I think that there is no evidence at all of transmission from touch or infected surfaces. This is an airborne transmitted disease, pretty much exclusively.

 

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3 minutes ago, P101 said:

I think that there is no evidence at all of transmission from touch or infected surfaces. This is an airborne transmitted disease, pretty much exclusively.

 

.......until someone sneezes in their hand and then touches something, a shopping trolley will do.

 

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2 hours ago, Silversurf said:

AZ vaccine works in a totally different way to the Pfizer with different constituents, but both have the same end result,

Agree the vaccines work differently but they don't both have the same result. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines appear, at this point in time, to be more effective against the variants. AZ is rendered ineffective against the South African variant.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2021/03/17/astrazeneca-vaccine-fails-to-protect-against-the-south-african-variant/amp/

 

 

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20 hours ago, SamD said:

 Spot on but I wonder how history will view the German approach to this which has caused such a rejection of a life-retaining jab?

I guess we will know the answer to this when the pandemic finally subsides and we can compare the outcome of the various countries.

Right now though, let's not forget, we are world beaters in terms of deaths relative to population size and number 1 on impact to the economy.

Edited by P101
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5 minutes ago, P101 said:

Right now though, let's not forget, we are world beaters in terms of deaths relative to population size and number 1 on impact to the economy.

 

Though of course there is another issue that could affect the UK economy running concurrently with this pandemic, so the real loading of Covid 19 is not clear cut in the UK's case.

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22 minutes ago, P101 said:

I think that there is no evidence at all of transmission from touch or infected surfaces. This is an airborne transmitted disease, pretty much exclusively.

 

I agree it's airborne but it has to land

  https://www.webmd.com/lung/how-long-covid-19-lives-on-surfaces

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33 minutes ago, P101 said:

I think that there is no evidence at all of transmission from touch or infected surfaces. This is an airborne transmitted disease, pretty much exclusively.

 

 

So, all this advice about washing hands for 20 seconds is wrong?

 

I will hang in with the official advice, after all the stakes are that bit too high and potentially too long lasting, not to invest those 20 seconds.

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31 minutes ago, P101 said:

I think that there is no evidence at all of transmission from touch or infected surfaces. This is an airborne transmitted disease, pretty much exclusively.

Can you point me to genuine scientific research, from the experts who are dealing with all the aspects of Covid transmission paths,  that points to your supposition, that there is no evidence of transmission by contact, I would be most interested to read the published papers by any scientist or research  group that states this as fact.

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12 minutes ago, Silversurf said:

Can you point me to genuine scientific research, from the experts who are dealing with all the aspects of Covid transmission paths,  that points to your supposition, that there is no evidence of transmission by contact, I would be most interested to read the published papers by any scientist or research  group that states this as fact.

Evidence is difficult. The attached article is quite good, but Google is your friend here.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/science-and-research/surface-transmission.html

 

There is no doubt though that original advice to wash wash wash but not wear a mask was irrefutably incorrect.

 

We could have worked that out from our South Asian friends where mask wearing has been commonplace since the SARS and MERS epidemics. 

 

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For all the Talk about side effects etc., usage of different vaccines, especially the AZ one, bear this in mind!

Vaccine costs -

Moderna (latest one) £27 per dose

Pfizer £20

Astra Zeneca £3

 

BTW, I've had both jabs of Pfizer, minor flu like side effects for a couple of days.

Edited by macquatic
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Since having the Pfizer Jab I thought all was well, until this week that is.

I have been diagnosed with P.L.D.S.  (Post lock down syndrome)

Symptoms apparently include.

Involuntary loud exclamations when seeing a Caravan or Motor Home on the road.  It can become Cronic identified by being able to name the make and model.

Nightmares about some sort of building called a pub and not being able to actually find one.

Uncontrolled cravings for Beer and Wine, but is must be drunk away from your home address and in the company of strangers.

Changes in taste from foods you normally like to cravings for things like a Big Mac or Kentucky fried chicken.

Sleeplessness and spending hours planning trips away, coupled with a total lack of confidence in actually booking a site, in case we have a Covid outbreak.

Told they will be worse after the 2nd Jab.

No treatment they tell me  Help!

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Alan.

 

A reasonable quantity of good quality Gin, with a Fever Tree mixer is a very good treatment for your particular ailment.  The benefit is somewhat transient, but the treatment can be repeated at will.

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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Paracetamol would not pass the clinical trials we have in place now. Not sure why people should be so worried about taking Astra Zeneca, when the 'over the counter' drugs are more dangerous.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Dave Capiro owner said:

Paracetamol would not pass the clinical trials we have in place now. Not sure why people should be so worried about taking Astra Zeneca, when the 'over the counter' drugs are more dangerous.

 

 


because it doesn’t feed the antivaxers neurosis, obsession or agenda.

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"Unless otherwise stated, my posts will be my personal thoughts and have the same standing as any other member of Caravan Talk"

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55 minutes ago, Dave Capiro owner said:

Paracetamol would not pass the clinical trials we have in place now. Not sure why people should be so worried about taking Astra Zeneca, when the 'over the counter' drugs are more dangerous.

 

 

I hadn't heard that about Paracetamol before? Is that based on its side effects? I do know a lot of people avoid it or aspirin. I suppose it's a drug we take regularly, rather than a one-off vaccine so we get chance to learn.

 

I think people are right to consider the relative risks of taking something over the benefits it offers without being labelled as antivaxxers (though these people will obviously be making great play of any negatives in an effort to be proved right). That seems to be the MHRA line too. I'll be taking whatever vaccine I'm offered, though I'd be happier if it turned out not to be the AZ one.

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You are far more likely to be injured on the way to getting the AZ than you are to encountering any problems with actual vaccine. 

 

Some (very few) passenger aircraft crash each year, but that doesn’t stop millions of people using them :rolleyes: I simply cannot understand the reluctance some have because the known and proven benefits vastly outweigh the totally unproven possible side effects. 

 

One of the  possibke side effects listed on a very common medication I take is actually death! Hasn’t stopped me, and I am sure millions of others taking it though.

 

Second jab in three weeks, it is AZ but I am delighted to be getting it, I have seen what Covid does to people, my elderly father in law (90 with diabetes) got it in January! He’s now alive and well but by gum he was very ill at one stage. 

Experience is something you acquire after you have an urgent need for it.

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you don't have to take many paracetamols to have liver damage , but it will take about 2 weeks  before you die a very painful death. However do what it says on the bottle and you should be okay. 

TBH we could go on and on about side effects of drugs and especially herbal  medicine and vitamins that people never realised how harmful these things can be and I think that there lies the rub, because the government and the experts have been so open about the covid jabs, people just never realised the dangers that lie within and are shocked by what they are being told. 

The experts have been testing the drugs all the way through and like any other medicine  we have to trust the experts.  

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2 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

I simply cannot understand the reluctance some have because the known and proven benefits vastly outweigh the totally unproven possible side effects. 

 

I think the reason is that for some (the young) the MHRA seem to be saying that this might not be the case (depending on your definition of "vastly"!).

 

When there are alternatives that seem to be lower risk, you can see why they (the MHRA) might be cautious in their advice.

 

I don't think this reflects on you or I, where what you say holds more true and, I repeat, I will be taking whatever I am offered unless something changes in the meantime.

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