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PLEASE help with British terminology regarding weights


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Hubby and I live in Australia, we  have bought a  2008 Sterling Eccles Onyx, and we love it heaps !

Decided to get it weighed today as we understand we are limited with weight.

 

in Australia we have a term, "Gross Trailer Mass" there doesn't seem to be any reference to this in any of the vans paperwork or compliance plates.

 

Plates on the van have:

 "Mass in Running Order" which I understand to be the unladen weight of the standard caravan. THIS IS STATED AT 1353kg

 "Tare" also the empty weight ?                   THIS IS STATED AT 1353kg

"MTPLM" maximum we can carry.            THIS IS STATED AT 1600kg

 

Also stamped on the compliance plate is : Load carrying capacity of axle or axle group. THIS IS STATED AT  1260kg

 

My confusion arises from Load carrying capacity of the axle is 1260kg, but the empty caravan weighs 1353kgs ? ? ?   :unsure:

 

Can someone with some knowledge please help me out ?

 

 

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I suggest you contact Swift directly for advice. You can also download the Owner Handbook and Technical Handbook from their website.

https://www.swiftgroup.co.uk/about/contact-us/get-in-touch

Edited by Legal Eagle
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The OP seems to have that information. It's the axle weight 1260Kg and MIRO 1353Kg  that is causing confusion.

Edited by Legal Eagle
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The main weights match Swifts however I do not understand the figure for the axle capacity. Have a look underneath and there should be a plate attached to the axle itself giving its weight limit. As suggested by Legal Eagle you may want to contact Swift

Edited by pfr
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"The OP seems to have that information. It's the axle weight 1260Kg and MIRO 1353Kg  that is causing confusion."

 

 

Ah yes I see that now , Could it be a thing to do with exported caravans , even then It makes no sense , just checked my caravan out of curiosity , different brand etc , but no mention if axle weight limit , strange !

Edited by Compass Point
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My thoughts that may help or confuse:-

 

Old UK terminology:-

ULW  (unladen weight) - The weight of an empty caravan 

MGW (maximum gross weight) - The highest weight the caravan can be legally

Ex-Works weight - The weight of a vehicle as it leaves the factory (an average figure for the caravan model with a tolerance of 3% to 5%)

Tare - A term for something that is empty. Still used to refer to empty gas cylinders

 

Current terminology:-

MRO (or MIRO, mass in running order) - The weight of the caravan as supplied (from 1999/2000 this replaced the Ex-Works weight on the weight plate)

Typically the MRO in 2010 includes the weight of gas bottles, water in water heater, flush toilet and onboard tank but perversely does not include the weight of a battery. In 2015 MRO only included the weight of gas but still not the battery, although the caravan manufacturers had the option to add the weight of water to the MRO.

MTPLM (maximum technically permitted loading margin) - The highest weight the caravan should ever be

NW (noseweight) - The load that has to be supported by the towcar hitch

Note that some manufacturers define a lower MTPLM to increase the appeal of their product to potential customers who have towcars with limited towing ability. Manufacturers also offer a 'paper upgrade' (at a price) to the full design MTPLM of their caravan, if the full loading allowance is required and is compatible with the towcar.

Payload - The maximum weight (personal possessions) above the MRO that can be added to the caravan before the MTPLM is exceeded

Optional equipment such a a motor mover will eat into the payload allowance

 

Additional terminology:-

Axle load - The maximum load that can be carried by a single axle (stamped on the axle itself) - NB when used in twin axle configuration the maximum load per axle is reduced as the weight may not be distributed evenly between the two axles (similarly with triple axle configurations used on some trailers)

A previous caravan of ours had two axles rated at 750kgs but the total axle rating in twin configuration was 1300kgs (not 2 x 750 = 1500kgs)

Tyre rating - the maximum load that can be carried by a single tyre

Optional equipment payload - Equipment provided by the caravan manufacturer that are added to the standard caravan

User payload - As above and equal to the difference between the MTPLM and the MRO

PEP (personal effects payload) - An allowance for items that are not optional equipment or essential habitation equipment . This is calculated by multiplying 10 times the number of berths, plus ten times the body length (in metres) plus 50kg (to allow for battery, bed linen, cutlery, crockery, cooking pans, kettle, toilet fluid, water carriers etc., but not wardrobe contents). Thus a four berth six metre caravan may  have a PEP of (10x4)+(10x6)+50kg = 150kgs

 

Towcar terminology:- 

Kerbweight - The weight of an unladen vehicle (includes certain allowances for fuel and the driver) 

Train weight - The maximum permitted weight of a loaded towcar plus the weight of any loaded trailer

Axle load, tyre rating, and noseweight limits also apply to the towcar (noseweight can also be further reduced if a lower limit is specified by the towbar manufacturer)

 

4 hours ago, Frankie onyx said:

My confusion arises from Load carrying capacity of the axle is 1260kg, but the empty caravan weighs 1353kgs ? ? ?   :unsure:

Lots of information above but I too am confused by your statement that the empty caravan appears to weigh more than the axle limit.

Two questions.

First, where did you read the axle load?

Second, is the weight of the empty caravan taken from a weight plate, or the true reading from a weighbridge? If the latter then your caravan is simply overloaded.

 

2008 SwiftGroupOwnersHandbook.pdf

Fourwinds Hurricane 31D Motorhome. Also MGTF135 1. 8i Roadster (fun) & Volvo V70 3.2Ltr LPG (everyday car)
Unless otherwise stated, my posts will be my personal thoughts and have the same standing as any other member of Caravan Talk.

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 Compass point, have a look in the gas locker  for the weight plate.

Frankie onyx, I agree with Legal eagle, contact Swift as it doesn't make any sense.  Did you buy it off a dealer , if so perhaps they can help:unsure:

 

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39 minutes ago, Legal Eagle said:

I suggest you contact Swift directly for advice. You can also download the Owner Handbook and Technical Handbook from their website.

https://www.swiftgroup.co.uk/about/contact-us/get-in-touch

 

The Swift Handbook archive is here https://www.swiftgroup.co.uk/owners/handbooks

 

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"Unless otherwise stated, my posts will be my personal thoughts and have the same standing as any other member of Caravan Talk"

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13 minutes ago, joanie said:

 Compass point, have a look in the gas locker  for the weight plate.

 

 

I know where the weight plate is , my point was , at least on my caravan , axle load is not mentioned . As for other brands .....

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The axle weight plate on our caravans (Al-Ko chassis) have all been on an oval plate attached to the centre of the axle itself.

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Fourwinds Hurricane 31D Motorhome. Also MGTF135 1. 8i Roadster (fun) & Volvo V70 3.2Ltr LPG (everyday car)
Unless otherwise stated, my posts will be my personal thoughts and have the same standing as any other member of Caravan Talk.

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1 hour ago, Grandpa Steve said:

 

The Swift Handbook archive is here https://www.swiftgroup.co.uk/owners/handbooks

 

The handbooks do not show axle weights. I was providing a link to Swift's contact details. Handbooks mentioned as an aside.

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The axle limit being so much lower than the MTPLM is just plain wrong!

Quite where this error has come from is a mystery.

 

OP mis reading the plate?

Wrong plate fitted?

manufacturing error, fitting the wrong axle?

Axle changed for an incorrect one?

The first two are fairly trivial, the second two are vital, and need sorting sooner rather than later.

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4 hours ago, Gordon said:

MTPLM (maximum technically permitted loading margin)

 

 really, I always understood it meant  Maximum Technically Permissible Laden Mass. This is what it states in our caravan handbook.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Stevan said:

The axle limit being so much lower than the MTPLM is just plain wrong!

Quite where this error has come from is a mystery.

 

OP mis reading the plate?

Wrong plate fitted?

manufacturing error, fitting the wrong axle?

Axle changed for an incorrect one?

The first two are fairly trivial, the second two are vital, and need sorting sooner rather than later.

 

Where's Hercule Poirot when you need him?

I'll add to the 4 above; the 2 and the 6 transposed by the person stamping the plate. The caravan's 12 years old; wouldn't the axle have failed before now if it were a wrong 'un?

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hawkaye :beardy:

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15 hours ago, Frankie onyx said:

Hubby and I live in Australia, we  have bought a  2008 Sterling Eccles Onyx, and we love it heaps !

Decided to get it weighed today as we understand we are limited with weight.

 

in Australia we have a term, "Gross Trailer Mass" there doesn't seem to be any reference to this in any of the vans paperwork or compliance plates.

 

Plates on the van have:

 "Mass in Running Order" which I understand to be the unladen weight of the standard caravan. THIS IS STATED AT 1353kg

 "Tare" also the empty weight ?                   THIS IS STATED AT 1353kg

"MTPLM" maximum we can carry.            THIS IS STATED AT 1600kg

 

Also stamped on the compliance plate is : Load carrying capacity of axle or axle group. THIS IS STATED AT  1260kg

 

My confusion arises from Load carrying capacity of the axle is 1260kg, but the empty caravan weighs 1353kgs ? ? ?   :unsure:

 

Can someone with some knowledge please help me out ?

 

 

 

Can you post a photograph of what you call a compliance plate? If the caravan was built in 2008 it was built before whole vehicle type approval compliance became effective, so wouldn't have needed a so-called compliance plate.

 

Perhaps a photo would help sorting out the apparent anomaly.

 

11 hours ago, Gordon said:

Towcar terminology:- 

Kerbweight - The weight of an unladen vehicle (includes certain allowances for fuel and the driver) 

Train weight - The maximum permitted weight of a loaded towcar plus the weight of any loaded trailer

 

Kerbweight is also old UK terminology. Current terminology is the same for all vehicles, whether caravans or towcars. In other words, MIRO and MTPLM should now be used in conjunction with towcars, too. Furthermore, kerbweight according to UK legislation does not include the driver, MIRO does.

 

Train weight is NOT maximum permitted weight of a loaded towcar plus the weight of any loaded trailer, but the maximum permitted sum of all axle loads.

Edited by Lutz
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Thank you so much for all your replies. Hubby went under the van this morning and found the sticker 😍😍😍

 

I don’t know where the lower figure came from but the axle says 1600kgs ❣️

Now, to try and get this figure accepted and changed :o
 

Again, thanks heaps for all your replies ! 

48AC5C92-BE80-460C-9AB1-B1C0931D11D7.jpeg

These are the other plates that are on the caravan. 

BAFF5AD6-D5FC-4600-A4CB-8B66FC6B42C5.jpeg

4924A7EA-989C-48F9-B09C-52EC289BE317.jpeg

Edited by Frankie onyx
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12 hours ago, Gordon said:

The axle weight plate on our caravans (AL-KO chassis) have all been on an oval plate attached to the centre of the axle itself.

So the weight "1600kgs" is the load carrying capacity of the axle ?

If so, any idea how  we get the other plate changed ?

axle weigt,.jpeg

axle weight.jpg

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The incorrect plate looks like it may have been put on the van in Oz when imported as it refers to the Motor Vehicle Standards Act 1989 which is Australian legislation. Not only is axle weight wrong the tyre sizes and pressures are also wrong. It says 82psi but the Swift plate limit is 52psi. I would not try to inflate to 82psi. Size is also wrong and I think someone has simply mis read all the info on the correct plates.

You probably need to find out who put the plate on the van and why (which legislation) - probably done in Oz as it is hand written rather than factory production. Would be worth enquiring on caravan owners forums in Oz.

 

Edited by pfr
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7 hours ago, Frankie onyx said:

So the weight "1600kgs" is the load carrying capacity of the axle ?

If so, any idea how  we get the other plate changed ?

axle weigt,.jpeg

axle weight.jpg

I believe the badly hand engraved plate is mainly referring to the tyres and appears to have two glaring errors - the tyre size (doesn't  exist as written) and tyre pressure (far too high). I believe the 1260Kg refers to the load bearing capacity of the tyres  (individually?) and also to possibly be an error.

In the UK the authorities refer to the manufacturers plate by the door. If asked, you are able to confirm that the axle design weight correlates with the manufacturers plate.

 

The hand engraved plate quotes The Motor Vehicles Standards Act 1989 which is Australian legislation covering new and used imported vehicles so maybe it's already been approved. You will have to ask your own authorities if it can be changed.

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All the UK and EU plates (machine produced) appear to be in order with the MTPLM agreeing with the axle plate.

The hand produced Ozzie plate appearing to contain the errors, so the solution has to lie over there.

I do not know what the attitude of the authorities over there will be to the errors, but I suspect that, like over here, they will give priority to the plate under their own legislation.

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16 minutes ago, Frankie onyx said:

Thanks again 👍🏼😊

 in all the weight worry, we didn’t even notice the other errors. 
that gives us more power to get this fixed I hope ! 
 

Hope you get it sorted. One more possible error with the plate is that technically Sterling are not the manufacturer of the caravan. Sterling is one of the Swift brand names. The manufacturer is Swift Group Ltd.

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9 hours ago, pfr said:

Hope you get it sorted. One more possible error with the plate is that technically Sterling are not the manufacturer of the caravan. Sterling is one of the Swift brand names. The manufacturer is Swift Group Ltd.


Yes. Hubby picked that up as well. 
whoever made the plate had no idea 😵🙄🤔

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