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I just drive at a speed that is the least stressfull when towing depending on conditions.

 

On a dry windfree day I'll be overtaking the trucks.

 

I never really consider economy when towing. 

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Yeti 2.0TDi DSG 4X4 L&K, Octavia TSi Manual, Citigo ASG, Swift Challenger.

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Possibly.. but topic's i have read from 2/3 years ago are also the same.    A great forum with lots of good info on all things caravanning but going from a skoda to dead bodies is wild.

Another view.........   I owned and operated a 38 ton artic for a number of years  averaging 80000 + miles a year in the UK. You may like to know that vehicles that follow you for mile

I’m never in a rush when going away with the caravan, 54mph following an HGV is fine for me. I used to be in more of a hurry years ago but more than once I found my speed creeping up when passing an H

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13 hours ago, logiclee said:

I never really consider economy when towing. 

 

Same. It would spoil my holiday if I did!

 

Back to the original topic, there is a member on Briskoda and here I think who tows a decent size Bailey (1400-1500kg) with a 1.4 TSI Kodiaq and praises it. 

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2018 Octavia vRS 245 TSI Estate & 2016 Adria Altea 552 DT Tamar

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Back in '55 I had an AJS 350 ..

 

recently bought a '56 model of the same bike ..

 

I'm a stone heavier than I was then, but I have trouble getting it up on the centre stand, so although I have the weight, I certainly haven't  got the muscle ......

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Roughing it . . but in comfort . .

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On 20/09/2020 at 08:36, Mr Plodd said:

So I made it all up then?

 

I know what my distances and view actually are, you are surmising.

I have many years of practical experience and have undergone very extensive and expensive driver training.

I have been trained in the forensic investigation and reconstruction of road crashes so  understand the dynamics of vehicle actions and reactions. Have you? 

I have carried out this (very rudimentary) experiment on a number of occasions, have you tried it??

 

Well I'm sorry to say that I have all the experience you are talking about. I was a plod myself, so yes I know all about the driver training. Accident investigation, yes been there done that and got the blood stained T shirt. Have I had to to knock on doors in the early hours and invite relatives to the morgue to identify their loved ones .. yes I have. My worst experience was attending a single vehicle RTA (as they were at the time) and recognising the vehicle involve as one belonging to a friend, the fire bobbies invited me to identify the driver ... his torso was in the drivers seat ... his head was on the rear seat... so yes I know all about the grisly side of the job.  

 

Since moving on from that job I have gained more experience of accident investigation in the aviation world,  hence my point about your understanding of aerodynamics. Slipstreaming happens at close quarters and at a distance which should be a complete odds against your police driver training unless you are involved in a close on pursuit situation. I'm sure that you wouldn't bring that style of driving to a caravan forum. 

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I have never stated that I am that close behind any vehicle (check all of my previous posts in respect of being at a safe distance)  

 

I used the term “slipstreaming” as that is the only word I could think of that fitted the scenario., can you think of any other word that fits?” As I have repeatedly stated, I maintain a distance that I feel is totally safe (I have a rather nervous passenger and they have never commented they feel I am too close) 

 

You have clearly seen  similar things to me, and those experiences will doubtless have influenced how you now drive, don’t you think it has an effect on my driving  as well?

 

I have never been a passenger in your car so am unable to comment on anything you do, and likewise you have never been a passenger in mine. 

 

It is clear that we will not come to any agreement  on this issue so I think it best that we both accept that, respect each other’s opinions, and move on, don’t you?

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Experience is an awful teacher who ends up sending you simply horrifying bills

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I don't think opinions are as far apart as they look here!

What we do not have is any real idea just what the slipstream effect really is at safe following distance at around 56mph.

The Mythbusters clip demonstrates that the effect is very real at 55mph at100feet, but did not test at any greater distance.

Andy clearly believes that the effect is still significant at 164ft or longer and therefore CAN be safe.

JetA1 clearly believes that the following has to be "extremely close" for the effect to be significant and therefore CANNOT be safe.

Without something resembling a scientific test it is impossible to say who is right, but they are not actually disagreeing over what is, or is not a safe distance.

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Nicely put Stevan and maybe that's as far as this bit gets but the 1.4tsi kodiaq now 1.5 is a great great car. 

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8 hours ago, Stevan said:

I don't think opinions are as far apart as they look here!

What we do not have is any real idea just what the slipstream effect really is at safe following distance at around 56mph.

The Mythbusters clip demonstrates that the effect is very real at 55mph at100feet, but did not test at any greater distance.

Andy clearly believes that the effect is still significant at 164ft or longer and therefore CAN be safe.

JetA1 clearly believes that the following has to be "extremely close" for the effect to be significant and therefore CANNOT be safe.

Without something resembling a scientific test it is impossible to say who is right, but they are not actually disagreeing over what is, or is not a safe distance.

At 164 feet and travelling at 56 mph, if the vehicle in front comes to an immediate stop how safe are you? What are you travelling at, 82 feet a second?  Stopping a car and caravan from 56 mph in 164 feet without prior warning.

 

What is safe?

 

macafee2

 

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How is it going to come to an immediate stop? Not many brick walls or trees on motorways and we are talking about maintaining vision in front of the vehicle in front at all times by road positioning.

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23 minutes ago, macafee2 said:

At 164 feet and travelling at 56 mph, if the vehicle in front comes to an immediate stop how safe are you? What are you travelling at, 82 feet a second?  Stopping a car and caravan from 56 mph in 164 feet without prior warning.

 

What is safe?

 

macafee2

 

164 feet at 56mph represents a 2 second gap. The "2 second rule" is a very widely accepted guideline for a minimum safe following distance under good driving conditions.

It does not, of course, allow for every possible scenario, but does cover the vehicle in front suddenly applying its brakes, by far the most common scenario. 

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1 hour ago, Jezzerb said:

How is it going to come to an immediate stop? Not many brick walls or trees on motorways and we are talking about maintaining vision in front of the vehicle in front at all times by road positioning.

look on Youtube and you will find clips of vehicles hitting something without braking or braking but having their stopping distance "halved" because they hit something.  There is one of a Ford Focus? crossing between to lorries to take a slip road. It hits a lorry that I think is stationary or there abouts either in the slip road or on the hard shoulder.

It bounces back into the lane to be hit by the lorry it just passed in front of.

 

See the clip of a Red car sliding all over the place on a motorway and the resulting multiple pile up the followed.

A stationary jack-knifed lorry can be seen rocking under the force of multiple contacts.

 

I think you should have given more thought to the question and perhaps not asked it.

 

 

Positioning,  great, how do you see down the left hand side of a lorry and still keep in the same lane? How do you see in front as you cant see over the top or underneath? How far to the right will you need to move to see in front of the lorries nearside and then how far in front will you be seeing?

 

macafee2

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I have been a member of plenty of forums in my time but this one is definately in the top 3 for going way off topic... Crikey

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11 minutes ago, Dave87 said:

I have been a member of plenty of forums in my time but this one is definately in the top 3 for going way off topic... Crikey

 

Everybody sat at home (social distancing)  all the painting, decorating and gardens done, so what’s left??? CT! 

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Experience is an awful teacher who ends up sending you simply horrifying bills

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1 minute ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

Everybody sat at home (social distancing)  all the painting, decorating and gardens done, so what’s left??? CT! 

 

Possibly.. but topic's i have read from 2/3 years ago are also the same. 

 

A great forum with lots of good info on all things caravanning but going from a skoda to dead bodies is wild.

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Well it's entertaining me. If I am far enough behind Ialways know whats in front of me and the vehicles in front of that.. If I dont I alter my distance, or road position so I can. I suppose then it makes slip streaming less effective but if you see the turbulence left behind by planes and the time they leave between landings I reckon there is still some but not science just gut. I usually sit behind one of the faster lorries these days for no reason other than not then constantly passing lorries which is a bind but I stay well well back ie more than only a fool etc.

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Dave87 said:

 

Possibly.. but topic's i have read from 2/3 years ago are also the same. 

 

A great forum with lots of good info on all things caravanning but going from a skoda to dead bodies is wild.

 

At least nobody mentioned brexit

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Another view.........;)

 

I owned and operated a 38 ton artic for a number of years  averaging 80000 + miles a year in the UK.

You may like to know that vehicles that follow you for mile after mile were considered a nuisance by me and many other HGV drivers. 

I would slowly bleed off my speed to a level where the following driver would decide to pass in order to get rid of them.

 

Consciously deciding to follow another vehicle for mile after mile, in order to save fuel, is a ridiculous driving decision. 

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Keep active ....be happy...stay safe.

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40 minutes ago, WilliamJames said:

 

You may like to know that vehicles that follow you for mile after mile were considered a nuisance by me and many other HGV drivers. 

 

 

And what exactly pray is the “nuisance” ?  Do you feel the same when driving your car?? It’s how “traffic” works, one vehicle follows another, a fairly common practice is it not? 

 

I expect far more people are (rightly) concerned about truck drivers that follow cars ridiculously close in an effort to either bully them into speeding up or pulling over to let them pass. I am sure we have all experienced that, a rear view mirror full of a trucks radiator grill that’s so close you can see the dead flies on it. 

Trucks need a fair bit more road to stop than a car does. A car running into the back of a lorry is not going to cause the lorry much damage, but a loaded truck into the back of a car ???????

 

So which practice is more dangerous? 

 

As Jezzerb has rightly pointed out, extreme tailgating is very common practice amongst lorry drivers, especially on motorways. We have all seen them, running on their limiters about 2m from the truck in front with absolutely NO view ahead whatsoever and no realistic chance of even getting to the brake pedal if the truck in front suddenly anchors up. 

 

Glass houses and stones??

 

(I hold a car, motorcycle, HGV 1 and PSV licence so have experience of most vehicle sizes) 

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Experience is an awful teacher who ends up sending you simply horrifying bills

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On 22/09/2020 at 08:41, Jezzerb said:

How is it going to come to an immediate stop? Not many brick walls or trees on motorways and we are talking about maintaining vision in front of the vehicle in front at all times by road positioning.

 

Having been behind a car that cut out and it stopped dead in front of me, so no brake lights and no warning and I ran into the back of it.

 

As luck would have it a passing PO also stopped, and despite the driver of the other car protesting the accident was my fault as I had run into the back of him even though he admitted th engine just cut out, the PO said he held him responsible as it was reasonable to expect a vehicle coming to a stop in front of you to display brake lights or at least slow down gradually if on an uphill road.

 

The PO breathalised us both and then asked to look at the other drivers car, the list of faults were endless.

Tyres below the legal limit, battery not secure, corrosion that made the body work dangerous for a pedestrian, cracked windscreen etc. The other driver was issue with tickets covering all the faults.

 

The PO even went to the trouble of giving me his details and said he was happy to provide a statement for my insurance to fight the case, which I won without needing it.

 

So yes vehicle do come to a complete stop in the middle of a road without any prior warning.

Jaguar E-Pace 180D HSE R Dynamic - 2008 Swift Conqueror 540

 

"Unless otherwise stated, my posts will be my personal thoughts and have the same standing as any other member of Caravan Talk"

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On 19/09/2020 at 12:55, Legal Eagle said:

The 2 second rule is based on HC stopping distances

No, it isn't.  They are completely different.

image.png.7d09d10a6ab9421e680b7bbc5c753615.png

They do agree at 40mph and then diverge.

 

The stopping distance is the clear distance you need to avoid a stationary object.

The two-second rule is the distance you need to avoid hitting a vehicle in front TRAVELLING AT THE SAME SPEED AS YOU.

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I would have thought a trained police officer of many years experience would be very good at ascertaining the meaning when written down in black and white.

 

Feel free to read my earlier post again taking note that I was referring to any vehicle that follows an HGV for mile after mile in order to save fuel.

 

Any driver of any vehicle that drives dangerously close to the vehicle in front, should in my opinion, be guilty of a specific offence and suffer a penalty following prosecution.......a different subject to the one I previously commented on.

 

 

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Keep active ....be happy...stay safe.

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13 minutes ago, WilliamJames said:

Any driver of any vehicle that drives dangerously close to the vehicle in front, should in my opinion, be guilty of a specific offence and suffer a penalty following prosecution.......a different subject to the one I previously commented on.

 

We have had Mr Plodd state he drives behind HGV's at what he considers a safe distance trying to use the tow of the vehicle in front to improve his MPG, so just one person on this forum.

I would try telling that to all your fellow HGV drivers that seem to be the most prolific offenders!

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Jaguar E-Pace 180D HSE R Dynamic - 2008 Swift Conqueror 540

 

"Unless otherwise stated, my posts will be my personal thoughts and have the same standing as any other member of Caravan Talk"

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A big SUV towing is different but solo?

 

 

Yeti 2.0TDi DSG 4X4 L&K, Octavia TSi Manual, Citigo ASG, Swift Challenger.

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1 hour ago, kelper said:

No, it isn't.  They are completely different.

image.png.7d09d10a6ab9421e680b7bbc5c753615.png

They do agree at 40mph and then diverge.

 

The stopping distance is the clear distance you need to avoid a stationary object.

The two-second rule is the distance you need to avoid hitting a vehicle in front TRAVELLING AT THE SAME SPEED AS YOU.

I said based on, not the same as. Still based on the same rules of time and distance. The HC adds initial reaction time.

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