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Got the weight but not the muscle


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When I bought my Kodiaq Sportline 1.4 TSI Automatic last year I had no intensions of towing in fact I was somewhat concerned it could pull itself. However this year I sold my motorhome mainly because of the restrictions it imposed not being free to leave the site etc and it didn't take long before I spotted a nice little Lunar Quasar 462  MPTLM 1200kg so I thought seeing as the Kodiaq's solo performance was so amazing I decided to have a tow bar fitted costing £325 including 13 pin electrics  which really upset my neighbour who paid more than  £900 for his.  The Kodiaq with its little old 1.4 engine towed like a dream but rarely did the gearbox see 6th gear and yes the fuel consumption certainly plummeted . Next year I will probably keep the Kodiaq unless I see something with more muscle at the right price.

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I’m never in a rush when going away with the caravan, 54mph following an HGV is fine for me. I used to be in more of a hurry years ago but more than once I found my speed creeping up when passing an H

Another view.........   I owned and operated a 38 ton artic for a number of years  averaging 80000 + miles a year in the UK. You may like to know that vehicles that follow you for mile

Possibly.. but topic's i have read from 2/3 years ago are also the same.    A great forum with lots of good info on all things caravanning but going from a skoda to dead bodies is wild.

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There is no reason at all why a modern 1.4 should not easily match a 2.0 litre of even a few years ago, in terms of power output.

A very rough rule of thumb is that to drive reasonably comfortably you need 40bhp per tonne of overall weight, irrespective of torque.

Modern gearboxes are set up for maximum economy when lightly loaded, it is no surprise therefore that when towing, the top gear, or even two gears, are impractical except downhill.

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Towing a full sized caravan knocks the fuel consumption down dramatically so with out knowing what you get solo and towing it is difficult to say if it is a problem towing. As you say modern gearing is high to give good fuel consumption solo but it does mean many cars have a top gear too high for towing performance. At the end of the day it is torque that counts and the smaller highly stressed modern cars often simply do not have it.

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6 minutes ago, Wildwood said:

 At the end of the day it is torque that counts and the smaller highly stressed modern cars often simply do not have it.

Debatable!

It is power, not torque that gets you up hills at sensible speeds and gives you the acceleration to keep up with traffic.

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37 minutes ago, Stevan said:

Debatable!

It is power, not torque that gets you up hills at sensible speeds and gives you the acceleration to keep up with traffic.

 

Power = torque x rpm

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Chris in Warwickshire, Elddis Odyssey 482 (2008), Mitsubishi Outlander diesel, 2017

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44 minutes ago, ChrisUK said:

 

Power = torque x rpm

True, a high revving, low torque engine can deliver exactly the same power as a low revving High  torque engine. Which is why every IC powered car has a torque multiplier (aka gearbox) between the engine and the wheels.

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4 hours ago, Lomax said:

The Kodiaq with its little old 1.4 engine towed like a dream but rarely did the gearbox see 6th gear 

 

2wd or 4x4?  6 or 7 speed box?

 

There's lots of conflicting information surrounding the early petrol Kodiaq's

 

Yeti 2.0TDi DSG 4X4 L&K, Octavia TSi Manual, Citigo ASG, Swift Challenger.

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Fuel consumption wise I have found that when towing a caravan I get about 2/3 of the mpg when not towing, whether petrol or diesel. It can be worse than this though if there are many hills on the route and also if there is a head wind.

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Fuel consumption!

I have a fairly large petrol engine, along with a turbocharger. 

I'll admit to 15mpg, but that may be a little generous! Super Unleaded too by preference. 

I can't get anywhere near top (8th) gear at legal speeds,  often 5th gear.

This is from a car that will happily return 40mpg at the same speeds.

But so what!  Everything is a compromise. The cars solo performance is why I bought it, with its towing ability a necessary but secondary function. Most of my mileage is solo, so I just grin and bear it! 

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Mazda 6 estate 6 speed (diesel) auto 175 ps towing 1450 kg. I can happily cruise at 50-60 (depending on speed limit) in sixth gear and regularly return around 27-28mpg. :)

 

When solo I can get near to 60mpg (on a motorway that is)

Edited by Mr Plodd

Experience is an awful teacher who ends up sending you simply horrifying bills

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The 1.4tsi kodiaq has 150bhp and 180ish lb ft torque. Great towcar. The 4x 4 is rated to tow 2000kg and I think 1500for the 2wd but not 100% on that. The 1.4 became the 1.5 for reasons only known to vw! But someone on here will know.

Some of the150bhp DIESEL manuals are not  homologated to tow and is clearly stated on their website. 

Yes when towing you'll get 24-26mpg but can never see why that is an issue when petrol is cheaper and purchase price is too. 

A quick look says 2wd 1.5tsi can legally tow 1600kg. Great towcar.

Edited by Jezzerb
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My 190ps or 187bhp for you older people spends most of the time in 7th gear.

It's  1755kg pulling 1700kg.

 

On my last tour going I returned 31.4mpg return 25.2mpg, return journey I was into a head wind and going faster.

 

Speed and wind make a huge difference to mpg, as does having the correct power.

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11 minutes ago, xtrailman said:

 

Speed and wind make a huge difference to mpg, as does having the correct power.

 

When on a motorway I try and “slipstream” behind a large truck (at a sensible distance not a cars length from the under-run bar) That improves my mpg by about 4 or 5 (28 up to around 33/4 or a roughly 20% improvement!) 

 I find that fuel/milk tankers are much better than square sided trucks, it must be down to airflow around them. 

 

I have experimented a good few times to see if it really does make a difference. Sit behind truck on straight and level road and set the cruise control at the current speed, leave it for  about 20 seconds so the mpg meter settles, then pull out of the slipstream and wait 20 seconds. Identical speed but mpg gauge (digital) shows the reduction in mpg. 

 

If there is nothing to follow I also find there is a big improvement in mpg if I drop from 60 down to the low 50’s mph wise. A caravan is not a very aerodynamic item and takes a lot of pulling through the air! 

 

.

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Experience is an awful teacher who ends up sending you simply horrifying bills

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36 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

When on a motorway I try and “slipstream” behind a large truck (at a sensible distance not a cars length from the under-run bar) That improves my mpg by about 4 or 5 (28 up to around 33/4 or a roughly 20% improvement!) 

 I find that fuel/milk tankers are much better than square sided trucks, it must be down to airflow around them. 

 

.

Whilst I, more or less, understand the mechanics of that and do not doubt that it works, I much prefer to be able to read the road considerably  further ahead than is possible from behind a truck at slipstreaming distance.

Th extra fuel cost is a price well worth paying for the better view ahead, both from this perspective, and being a blue to see more of the world than the back of the same truck for mile after mile.

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We do exactly the same plod, makes a great difference to mpg as long as you maintain. A safe gap.our last towcar was a bit lacking in the power dept but being behind a lorry meant it went up hills with ease on motorways.

Stefan I dont think either plod or I ever get so close as to having restricted vision .

Edited by Jezzerb
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I’m with Stevan on that one, and I’m surprised at Andy choosing to have a restricted view of the road ahead. 
 

I prefer to get where I’m going, if it’s safe for me to drive at 60 on the motorway, that’s what I’m doing, often a bit more. I don’t really give a damn what it does to fuel economy, it’s not something I ever look at. 

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50 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

When on a motorway I try and “slipstream” behind a large truck (at a sensible distance not a cars length from the under-run bar) That improves my mpg by about 4 or 5 (28 up to around 33/4 or a roughly 20% improvement!) 

 I find that fuel/milk tankers are much better than square sided trucks, it must be down to airflow around them. 

 

I have experimented a good few times to see if it really does make a difference. Sit behind truck on straight and level road and set the cruise control at the current speed, leave it for  about 20 seconds so the mpg meter settles, then pull out of the slipstream and wait 20 seconds. Identical speed but mpg gauge (digital) shows the reduction in mpg. 

 

If there is nothing to follow I also find there is a big improvement in mpg if I drop from 60 down to the low 50’s mph wise. A caravan is not a very aerodynamic item and takes a lot of pulling through the air! 

 

.

Fuel economy is also why a lot of trucks are limited to 50/52mph. 

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13 minutes ago, Jezzerb said:

 

Stefan I dont think either plod or I ever get so close as to having restricted vision .

 

Correct! And I probably more than most am very well aware of the need to have as much forward view as possible after 30 years as a traffic cop (any many cumulative months of expensive driver training) By slight movements to either side it is not difficult to maintain a view far ahead of anything I am following. I am more than happy I always have sufficient view, The forward view is worse if Following a caravan

 

Does anyone seriously think I would countenance anything unsafe ir dangerous after what I have seen in the roads? :rolleyes:

Edited by Mr Plodd
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Experience is an awful teacher who ends up sending you simply horrifying bills

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I’m never in a rush when going away with the caravan, 54mph following an HGV is fine for me. I used to be in more of a hurry years ago but more than once I found my speed creeping up when passing an HGV especially when the uphill drag started to descend and the HGV increased speed.

 

With a heavy and powerful car I certainly could increase the speed safely but I certainly arrive more relaxed nowadays 

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2018 Volvo V90 and 2018 Swift Sprite Quattro EB

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When travelling along a busy M6 for business trips I’ll normally take the inside lane, set the ACC to maximum distance and stay behind a wagon, the info will show I’m getting in excess of 70 MPG, and the tailgaiting BMW’s in the outside lane don’t move any faster, I always catch then up when the inevitable queue starts.

 

I do similar when towing and get over 30MPG, except I don’t use the cruise control 

Edited by Dave Capiro owner
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24 minutes ago, Dave Capiro owner said:

When travelling along a busy M6 for business trips I’ll normally take the inside lane, set the ACC to maximum distance and stay behind a wagon, the info will show I’m getting in excess of 70 MPG, and the tailgaiting BMW’s in the outside lane don’t move any faster, I always catch then up when the inevitable queue starts.

 

I do similar when towing and get over 30MPG, except I don’t use the cruise control 


Same here. I had a bit of a lifestyle reawakening last year when I was made redundant and refocused on what’s important in life and slowing down was top of the list. All of my commuting in my new role is at a maximum of 60mph, maximum return on fuel expenses, reduced stress, what’s not to like!!!!

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2018 Volvo V90 and 2018 Swift Sprite Quattro EB

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2 hours ago, Stevan said:

.... I much prefer to be able to read the road considerably  further ahead than is possible from behind a truck at slipstreaming distance. ... The extra fuel cost is a price well worth paying for the better view ahead.

 

Given that when towing you are likely to be in the inner lane most of the time (at least I am), and given the number of lorries these days, which are also most likely to be in the inner lane, you are lucky ever to get a long view ahead.

 

The slipsteam effect extends further back than you might imagine, so it is not a case of being up the lorry's exhaust pipe. You can feel picking up a lorry's slipstream well outside the recommended separation distance.  The effect is there whether you want it or not. 

 

My open road M-way towing method is to be doing 60 in the inner lane until I am closing with a lorry (which have limiters at 56? - or are supposed to?).  I slow slightly to their speed, wait for a sizeable gap in the middle lane, and then overtake them, dropping back into the inner lane afterwards. Rinse and repeat.

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Slipstreaming normally means to follow another vehicle closely whilst awaiting an opportunity to overtake. The Highway Code recommended minimun separation at 60mph in perfect conditions  is 73m (240ft) which equates to around 18 average solo car lengths. To be safe it would need to be significantly more whilst towing. I would expect all safety conscious drivers, especially advanced driver trained ones, to respect and follow that separation guidance. Does a beneficial slipstream exist at that distance?

Edited by Legal Eagle
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1 hour ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

Correct! And I probably more than most am very well aware of the need to have as much forward view as possible after 30 years as a traffic cop (any many cumulative months of expensive driver training) By slight movements to either side it is not difficult to maintain a view far ahead of anything I am following. I am more than happy I always have sufficient view, The forward view is worse if Following a caravan

 

Does anyone seriously think I would countenance anything unsafe ir dangerous after what I have seen in the roads? :rolleyes:

I would like to see a diagram of your visibility ahead when you are slip streaming.  I assume at some point your view ahead is obscured. Can you say in time what a safe distance is that you consider.  Following a lorry the lanes do not allow for a great deal of sideways movement.

 

Have you seen a video clip on Youtube of a lorry crashing into a mini bus on the M4 or M40? I'm sure he was found not guilty of wrong doing, thank goodness he had a dash cam. His his visibility was obscured

 

macafee2

 

 

 

 

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I travel at a distance I am happy to be at to maintain sufficient forward visibility rather than an arbitrary (and unmeasurable) distance and  “Always be able to stop in the distance I  can see to be clear”  

 

I am confident that should I need to stop in hurry I have sufficient space in which to do so (Always be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear) I have seen vastly more than my fair share of incidents where people have not been able to stop in time! 

 

Highway code stopping distances are way off the mark these days. Improvements in both tyre and brake technology (ABS, EBD, ABD etc) have not been incorporated into them as there are some vehicles still on the road without them, so the HC quotes the very worst case scenario, but of course relate to just a car but well maintained caravan brakes are pretty efficient these days to the point where it’s possible to lock them up if you really try. 

 

I am more than happy happy that I am safe doing what I do (I am nowhere near “up the chuff” of anything I am slipstreaming and I am not putting my, or anyone else’s safety at any risk. 

 

As far as distances are concerned look at Formula One to see just how far behind a tiny F1 car slipstream/air disturbance has an appreciable effect. A fuel tanker punches a BIG hole in the air! 

 

 

 

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Experience is an awful teacher who ends up sending you simply horrifying bills

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