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On 23/09/2020 at 20:45, Kepler said:

This is in the Times newspaper now. Nicholas Marks the owner of Lunar Automotive has been reported to HMRC by the local councillor for not paying Furlough and not making any pension contributions to the Lunar staff since he took over last year. 

 

In the article the owner describes it as a passive investment. What does that mean?

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Lunar Automotive have lost the appeal and have been given a 28 day eviction notice   Could you point me to where I can read about this ?   I would imagine they will also join the c

Hardley vultures !

Lunar Automotive are not having any staff back until the end of October which is when the furlough scheme ends. Many of the few remaining staff have left due to the new owners not paying out furlough

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1 hour ago, Towtug said:

In the article the owner describes it as a passive investment. What does that mean?

 

The dictionary definition of passive is.............."accepting or allowing what happens or what others do, without active response or resistance."

 

So in layman's terms, I suppose the phrase " Couldn't be ................" fill in your own word, would be apt.

Common sense isn't a gift, it's a punishment because you have to deal with everyone who doesn't have it.  :rolleyes:

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2 hours ago, Towtug said:

In the article the owner describes it as a passive investment. What does that mean?

A passive investment is one that just sits there and provides a return on investment without any management effort required by the investor.

 

You could conceivably buy a company in good health as a passive investment - just let the existing management keep doing their thing and take your share of the profits at the end of it as owner.

 

Lunar does not seem to an outside observer to be a company that finds itself in that position.  So it's a bit odd to see it referred to as a passive investment.

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2 hours ago, Xyleth said:

A passive investment is one that just sits there and provides a return on investment without any management effort required by the investor.

 

You could conceivably buy a company in good health as a passive investment - just let the existing management keep doing their thing and take your share of the profits at the end of it as owner.

 

Lunar does not seem to an outside observer to be a company that finds itself in that position.  So it's a bit odd to see it referred to as a passive investment.

I thought that too

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  • 2 weeks later...

Latest news is that Lunar staff (what's left of them) are being told that production will start at the end of October and they are looking to manufacture 8 vans per week. Watch this space.

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On 06/10/2020 at 18:58, Kepler said:

Latest news is that Lunar staff (what's left of them) are being told that production will start at the end of October and they are looking to manufacture 8 vans per week. Watch this space.

What Van's will they be making though, the old 2019 Lunar models or the Taurus models that were publicised at the end of last year?

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On 23/09/2020 at 20:45, Kepler said:

This is in the Times newspaper now. Nicholas Marks the owner of Lunar Automotive has been reported to HMRC by the local councillor for not paying Furlough and not making any pension contributions to the Lunar staff since he took over last year. 

 

Link to Times article here.  It is behind the paywall but enough is visible to convey the gist of the report.

 

There is something not quite right with Mr Marks’ acquisition (bought out of Administration in a Prepack deal) of the social enterprise, 'Clarity & Co'.  Again, this report is behind a paywall but its headline and first paragraph speak volumes...

 

Quote

Clarity & Co.’s new owner is under pressure to commit to social enterprise status, with a six-week deadline given by Social Enterprise UK – but first it must resolve crucial cash flow issues, with over a third of staff not currently being paid.

 

From the Times piece it seems Mr Marks has also acquired  British Polar Engines, a Glasgow-based diesel engines manufacturer founded in 1927.  This company reported a £1.25m loss for the year ending March 2019m (published in Feb 2020). This loss is about two times greater than the £0.67m loss reported in 2018.

 

All seems strange but as with others, I really cant see LAL ever producing caravans.  

 

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So say productive  weeks as follows, 4 for Nov, 3 for Dec, 3 for Jan, 4 for Feb, 4 for March, 4 for Apr, = 22 weeks x the 8 per week they are looking to manufacture , potentially 176 vans, only one model ? for sale at the time of the year when the market is waking up and folk are looking  to buying a new van for the new season.

 

From this 176 a deduction needs to be made for one demonstrator van per Lunar dealer, how many of those are still out there ?

 

Is there a model / models available now to go through the type approval and other rubber stamping, testing processes before they can be sold ?

 

Next buyer confidence, I feel that there would be many previous owners with knowledge of the goings on over the past few years who wouldn't touch them with a barge pole, some may dip their toe in, but only 12 -24 months down the line to see if any problems surface, and if so, how quickly are they attended to, with a one stop, one successful fix rate.

 

As to the rest of the new van buying public, there will be those with prior knowledge of Lunar, even though this is a different company, who may shy away, then there will be others who go in blind with no prior knowledge of the previous Lunar and early days of the new Lunar, I'm not saying however that the new company won't produce a good product that ticks all the box's, the proof of the pudding in many things caravan wise, is that it can be 1-2-3 years before expensive faults raise their heads with the product, obviously excluding supplied equipment, fridges, heating systems etc.

 

If only for the production staffs sake, who have been handed the messy ( polite ) 😉 end of the stick, I hope it is a well designed van, with great attention taken to address the faults with the previous Lunar products and those of competitors, to produce a superior product......................................only time will tell.

 

One problem may be, after all that has gone on in the past, is retaining the Lunar name, once a product or business gets a bad name, it's the devils own job to get topside of it........................ ask Gerald Ratner. 😱

 

Would starting a brand new caravan name have been a better decision, who knows,watch this space.

 

 

 

 

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Common sense isn't a gift, it's a punishment because you have to deal with everyone who doesn't have it.  :rolleyes:

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From what I’ve read on here I would be loathe to buy a van from them at the moment , I don’t want to cast aspersions but I can’t see staff performing at 100% if they have been treated so abysmally by this owner . 

Subaru Outback 2. 0 DSE 2015, Coachman Pastiche 460/2, Lunar Ultima Extra 540,

, Pwrtouch mover, Quest Rolli awning.

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Before having public confidence, they would have to demonstrate something for dealers to be confident. I don't know the purchasing sequence for the transaction between dealer and manufacturer, but I assume that the dealer has to give the manufacturer a deposit of some kind when a van is ordered?

 

Would a dealer want to send money Lunars way knowing the company still yet might fold?

 

Why would a dealer want to sell them anyway, knowing that they'd be on the hook for the warranty with it being unlikely that Lunar could provide spare parts or repairs in a timely manner and take on the cost themselves. With such a paltry planned production rate, a dealer would only be able to sell a handful... seems more effort than it's worth when they could just send a few extra sales to their major manufacturers. It's not like Lunar offer genuinely anything different to the others.

 

Maybe the owner has seen the way Tesla are selling direct to the public and thinks they could do the same.

 

It just makes no sense.

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There are big problems as well with Lunar Automotive getting parts from suppliers as the old Lunar collapsed owing over £1million to at least one supplier and hundreds of thousands to many more.  To finish vans they obtained from the buy out they had to buy parts through one of the long time dealers as suppliers wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. To get parts they are going to have to put a lot of money up front and they aren't going to get any of it at a good price, especially if they are only looking to build 8 per week. 

So any Van they do build is going to have a high ticket price, if they ever manage to build one.

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On eBay there are some  new 2021 lunar caravans advertised for sale! Seems to be a dealer as well

 

 

 

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, 635mwd said:

On eBay there are some  new 2021 lunar caravans advertised for sale! Seems to be a dealer as well

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bearing in mind that all Ebay adverts are always 100% accurate, it would be interesting to see what the actual date of manufacture is!

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Looking at the photos, that is a different logo on the front and so I assume they are from the new company.

 

The write up says year of  manufacture   registration 2020, but 2021 model.

 

Based in Ashington, Northumberland, they have 3 different models for sale.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lunar-Alaria-FB-6-Berth-8FT-Wide-Fixed-Bed-2021-Model/133460207241?hash=item1f12d92689:g:sTkAAOSwj8FfbgZm

 

.

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Ashington Cars, Commercial & Caravans seem to have the only three  ‘2021' model year Lunar Alaria caravans in existence...  Selling them on eBay & on Gumtree.

 

As a brand new caravan manufacture I think I’d be placing my first brand new prestige range of caravans with Lunar dealers rather than somebody like Ashington CC&C who appear to be used vehicle dealers rather than any sort of ‘appointed’ dealership*.

 

From the eBay linked page then...  the headline is:

Quote

Lunar Alaria FB 6 Berth 8FT Wide Fixed Bed 2021 Model 

BRAND NEW TOP OF THE RANGE FLAGSHIP 2021 MODEL

 

but further down the page we see:

 

Quote

MakeLunar

ModelAlaria FB 6 Berth 8FT Wide Fixed Bed 2020 Model 

Year2021

 

Note they say here, ‘2020 model’ (which contradicts the headline 2021 model) which could well have been built in the latter half of 2019 

 

Have a look at the MY2020 graphics on the eBay page and then this image from Out & About Live.  

 

image.jpeg.299a6874368720290e82a1bf46b2e980.jpeg

 

It wouldn’t surprise me at all if these vehicles were included in the LAL purchase of LCL and  have simply had the badge swapped.

 

 

 

*no denigration of the Ashington CC&C business intended - I just wouldn’t expect to find brand new MY2021 top of the range caravans from a brand new caravan manufacturer being brought to market in this way.

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I wonder where they came from?

 

Oddly enough there is nothing about any new caravans on Lunar Auto's website where nothing appears to have changed since they re-badged the old Lunar site in 2019.

 

Request a brochure....................page lost !

 

View the models, the Alaria on the website is a slightly different set out to that on Ebay.

 

The Tarus on the website is also differentand looks like it's been re-jigged.

 

And the new Tarus graphics aren't a million miles away from those on the 2018 Delta

 

I would have thought that having the wonder of Google, the new models would have been headline news on the Lunar Auto site rather than appearing at a dealers on Ebay !

 

As Alice says "curiouser and curiouser ?

Common sense isn't a gift, it's a punishment because you have to deal with everyone who doesn't have it.  :rolleyes:

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14 minutes ago, ReggiePerrin said:

Ashington Cars, Commercial & Caravans seem to have the only three  ‘2021' model year Lunar Alaria caravans in existence...  Selling them on eBay & on Gumtree.

 

As a brand new caravan manufacture I think I’d be placing my first brand new prestige range of caravans with Lunar dealers rather than somebody like Ashington CC&C who appear to be used vehicle dealers rather than any sort of ‘appointed’ dealership*.

 

From the eBay linked page then...  the headline is:

 

but further down the page we see:

 

 

Note they say here, ‘2020 model’ (which contradicts the headline 2021 model) which could well have been built in the latter half of 2019 

 

Have a look at the MY2020 graphics on the eBay page and then this image from Out & About Live.  

 

image.jpeg.299a6874368720290e82a1bf46b2e980.jpeg

 

It wouldn’t surprise me at all if these vehicles were included in the LAL purchase of LCL and  have simply had the badge swapped.

 

 

 

*no denigration of the Ashington CC&C business intended - I just wouldn’t expect to find brand new MY2021 top of the range caravans from a brand new caravan manufacturer being brought to market in this way.

 

They were dealers in 2019 for Lunar see here.

 

https://www.lunarcaravans.com/news/ashington-caravans-becomes-new-venus-dealership.html

 

No idea if they are now dealers for Lunar Automotive ?

 

The 3 year warranty is interesting,  36 remaining months ? I wonder who is backing that what the parts situation is should anything be needed ?

 

There were 9 dealers at the beginning of 2020 including Ashington, I wonder how many there still are and if they have any new caravans ?

Common sense isn't a gift, it's a punishment because you have to deal with everyone who doesn't have it.  :rolleyes:

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It gets more interesting , Grantham Caravans say,  MB & G Warranty not Lunar.

 

I flicked through a few of the other dealers and it appears to be watch this space.

 

What is the average warranty for a new caravan, does three years appear short in this day and age ?

Common sense isn't a gift, it's a punishment because you have to deal with everyone who doesn't have it.  :rolleyes:

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32 minutes ago, Silversurf said:

They were dealers in 2019 for Lunar see here.

 

https://www.lunarcaravans.com/news/ashington-caravans-becomes-new-venus-dealership.html

 

No idea if they are now dealers for Lunar Automotive ?

 

The plot thickens...  The press release, ostensibly from Lunar Automotive,  is dated 14th January 2019, fully six months before Lunar Caravans Ltd went into administration and seven months before the newly formed company (Lunar Automotive Ltd) came into being and bought the old Lunar from the administrators.

 

I am also thinking that on acquisition of Lunar Caravans Ltd, the new owners made it very clear that only selected models of the 'Lunar’ brand of caravans including Alaria repositioned into the Lunar brand would be built for the foreseeable future...

 

Quote

For 2020, the Preston company, which was bought out of administration by South African owners in August, has axed the budget Venus brand – which some dealers sold on its own.

See here

 

So in 2019, the Venus brand was dropped (for 2020) which makes the appointment as a Venus dealership very short lived.

 

 

 

Edited by ReggiePerrin
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Three years is the standard guarantee offered with a further one on water ingress, usually up to six years. Do be aware the the three years will have numerous exceptions covering various fitted items and usually the front and rear panels. The guarantee is not your only right though as faulty items can be claimed for under the CPA.

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These vans for sale on eBay are 2020 proto types that were built in early to mid 2019 to be shown at Birmingham NEC in October. They are one offs as no production of them ever commenced. 

On 09/10/2020 at 18:25, DerbyClubman said:

 

Looking at the photos, that is a different logo on the front and so I assume they are from the new company.

 

The write up says year of  manufacture   registration 2020, but 2021 model.

 

Based in Ashington, Northumberland, they have 3 different models for sale.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lunar-Alaria-FB-6-Berth-8FT-Wide-Fixed-Bed-2021-Model/133460207241?hash=item1f12d92689:g:sTkAAOSwj8FfbgZm

 

.

You'd be mad to pay anywhere near £31k for that in my opinion. Nice Van but never went into production so getting spare parts should things go wrong on it could be next to impossible.

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11 hours ago, Kepler said:

These vans for sale on eBay are 2020 proto types that were built in early to mid 2019 to be shown at Birmingham NEC in October. They are one offs as no production of them ever commenced. 

You'd be mad to pay anywhere near £31k for that in my opinion. Nice Van but never went into production so getting spare parts should things go wrong on it could be next to impossible.

We need an 'informative’ post rating...  

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52 minutes ago, Kepler said:

???

The little like, agree, disagree, funny icons that we can up or down rate another’s post with... one to rate a post as ‘informative’ would be useful.

 

Your post that prompted my comment was 'informative’.  

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A bit of research on social media and I can see a current employee stating they were told a few days ago that they're being laid off end of this month when the furlough scheme ends - unsurprising.

 

I guess someone stating they were going to produce 8 a week was just to fob them off until d-day. 

 

A sad, sorry tale.

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  • Gordon changed the title to Lunar staff furloughed

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