mass in service

[telegan]

can anyone tell me if my mass in service weight on my log book includes an allowance for the 

driver ? how much do they allow ?  where or how do you find out what it includes

ive heard some manufacturers allow 70kg for the driver   well im 100kg  so do i get to add 30kg onto the allowance {mass in service }  or do i add 100kg {mass in service} if there is no allowance ?

i have a 2015 skoda

[Legal Eagle]

You only have to search on Google. Mass in Service is legally defined by European Directive 95/48/EC.

Mass in Service is the mass of a  motor vehicle in a ready to drive condition with the fuel tank 90% full, a driver on board weighing 68 kg and luggage of 7 kg.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Legal Eagle

[Lutz]

Yes, it does include an allowance for the driver but the mass in service figure doesn't specifically apply to your car. It applies to that car of the same model that the car manufacturer submitted for type approval.  This is usually a base vehicle with the minimum of factory fitted options applicable to the market where the vehicle is sold. The difference can be as much as 150kg.

[telegan]

so im 100kg  can i add 42kg to the mass in service

 as im the driver ?

3 minutes ago, Lutz said:

Yes, it does include an allowance for the driver but the mass in service figure doesn't specifically apply to your car. It applies to that car of the same model that the car manufacturer submitted for type approval.  This is usually a base vehicle with the minimum of factory fitted options applicable to the market where the vehicle is sold. The difference can be as much as 150kg.

so how do i find out what i need to know for my exact model is there a site ?

[Legal Eagle]

17 minutes ago, telegan said:

so im 100kg  can i add 42kg to the mass in service

 as im the driver ?

so how do i find out what i need to know for my exact model is there a site ?

You're over complicating it. The figure stated on your V5C is the mass in service figure as supplied by the manufacturer in accordance with the legal definition. That is it, there is no other and you cannot adjust figures to match your personal statistics.

 

Now, if you want a kerbside weight specifically for your car (it's different from the mass in service) you need to take it to a public weighbridge with a full tank of fuel and only the equipment and tools necessary for it’s operation, i.e. spare wheel, wheel brace and jack. Then weigh it with no other load, no driver,  no passengers and no luggage.

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Legal Eagle

[Stevan]

If you want to be certain that you are not overloading, but still go close to the limit, there is no reliable alternative but to get your vehicle onto a weighbridge. Published figures are just not to be relied upon.

[Guest]

If you want to know YOUR cars unladen weight take it to a local weighbridge with it in “kerbweight” conditions. This will give you a true figure as opposed to the minimum figure used on literature and documents in an effort to make the car appear light and eco friendly.

[Silversurf]

2 minutes ago, GaryB1969 said:

If you want to know YOUR cars unladen weight take it to a local weighbridge with it in “kerbweight” conditions. This will give you a true figure as opposed to the minimum figure used on literature and documents in an effort to make the car appear light and eco friendly.

 

Or you could want it to look heavier so that you could tow a heavier van. ??

[joanie]

24 minutes ago, telegan said:

so im 100kg  can i add 42kg to the mass in service

 as im the driver ?

so how do i find out what i need to know for my exact model is there a site ?

contact the car manufacturer

[Lutz]

13 minutes ago, joanie said:

contact the car manufacturer

 

The actual weight should be shown under item 13.2 in the Certificate of Conformity for the car. The trouble is that, at least in the UK, the customer doesn't receive a copy of that document as a matter of course.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Lutz

[Guest]

Some manufacturers don’t publish kerb weights in easy to find places as most folks aren’t interested. My previous car was a 2016 BMW520D saloon with a published minimum kerb weight of 1720kgs. In its as-supplied condition with factory retractable tow bar and other extras it’s actual unladen weight on a weighbridge was just under 1800kgs.

[Legal Eagle]

Unladen weight and kerbside weight are different things. For example, ULW does not include fuel.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Legal Eagle

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Legal Eagle said:

Unladen weight and kerbside weight are different things.

Yes I appreciate that but trying to get either of them from some manufacturers isn’t easy. I am happy with either as I usually have a wide margin between them both and the caravans MTPLM.

[Legal Eagle]

1 minute ago, GaryB1969 said:

Yes I appreciate that but trying to get either of them from some manufacturers isn’t easy. I am happy with either as I usually have a wide margin between them both and the caravans MTPLM.

ULW is only relevant to some large passenger vehicle, goods vehicle and goods trailer legislation so is not relevant to cars and only those that tow caravans are preoccupied with kerbside weights which has no legislative attachments hence few car manufacturers see any relevance in publishing either!

[telegan]

this towing malarky is giving me a sore head !!!!

[Towtug]

2 hours ago, Legal Eagle said:

You only have to search on Google. Mass in Service is legally defined by European Directive 95/48/EC.

Mass in Service is the mass of a  motor vehicle in a ready to drive condition with the fuel tank 90% full, a driver on board weighing 68 kg and luggage of 7 kg.

95/48 was repealed in 2009 and became invalid in 2014. 

The current regulation requires the mass in service to allow for a Driver of 75 kg. ( the standard manikin has put on weight since 1995)

1 hour ago, Lutz said:

 

The actual weight should be shown under item 13.2 in the Certificate of Conformity for the car. The trouble is that, at least in the UK, the customer doesn't receive a copy of that document as a matter of course.

The actual weight is a calculated figure whereby a matrix of optional equipment available either ex factory or as dealer fitment is added to the Mass in running order.

[Silversurf]

38 minutes ago, telegan said:

this towing malarky is giving me a sore head !!!!

 

It doesn't appear to be giving the tens of thousands, or more, folk who regularly tow garden rubbish trailers, boat trailers, livestock trailers, horse trailers, car trailers, glider trailers, plant trailers, caravans large and small, burger vans and many other trailers a sore head.

 

It's obvious from your posts, that you are getting really stressed out to the point of paranoia about towing a caravan.

 

May I humbly suggest, that going by your posts, on this thread and others, that sadly, you are not cut out to be able to tow a caravan and suggest that for the safety of yourself and others that you explore other holiday venues such as hotels, B&B, holiday camps.

 

[Lutz]

13 hours ago, GaryB1969 said:

Some manufacturers don’t publish kerb weights in easy to find places as most folks aren’t interested. My previous car was a 2016 BMW520D saloon with a published minimum kerb weight of 1720kgs. In its as-supplied condition with factory retractable tow bar and other extras it’s actual unladen weight on a weighbridge was just under 1800kgs.

Manufacturers aren’t under any obligation to publish kerbweights and even if they do, what they call kerbweight is actually, upon closer scrutiny, mass in running order.

[Rodders53]

You are really grasping at straws to get the "Yes you're OK to tow" with your Kodiaq and heavy caravan with this latest query.

 

I think the advice given by our well-respected member, logiclee, who has used the same vehicle to tow with in the past that it would be (very) unwise due to the towcar's shortcomings in practical use (not weight, not power, nor any  specified limits) should be enough to convince you?

 

Please don't do it!

[bubble2015]

So just for fun, I took the car over a weighbridge this morning!  And, I know weighbridges have errors, but . . . .

Adjusting for a driver weighing 70 kg, and with 1/2 a tank of fuel, it weighed in at 2000kg.

If you deduct for assorted junk in the car 5 - 10 kg and for the towbar 15 - 20 kg, you get a weight of 1770 - 1780 kg.  The Mass in service from the log book is 1775 kg!

 

 

[logiclee]

3 minutes ago, bubble2015 said:

  And, I know weighbridges have errors, 

 

I have 7 on site, all re-certified in July.

 

The largest error over 44000kg was 20kg.

[bubble2015]

It also confirms that the caravan really was overloaded when we went away a few weeks ago, used the same weighbridge.

We had loaded enough food and drinks so we wouldnt need to go shopping for a week!  Worked out that we were carrying 30 kg of liquid, thats the bodega and a couple of bottles of water for emergencies.  Also, far fewer clothes than usual as it is hot!

Fortunately the car wasnt overloaded!

 

[joanie]

On 04/08/2020 at 21:46, Lutz said:

 

The actual weight should be shown under item 13.2 in the Certificate of Conformity for the car. The trouble is that, at least in the UK, the customer doesn't receive a copy of that document as a matter of course.

I've copied the following;

Certificates of Conformity. A Certificate of Conformity (CoC) is a certificate issued by a vehicle manufacturer as evidence that a vehicle complies with a range of standards including enviromental and safety regulations.

[Towtug]

1 hour ago, joanie said:

I've copied the following;

Certificates of Conformity. A Certificate of Conformity (CoC) is a certificate issued by a vehicle manufacturer as evidence that a vehicle complies with a range of standards including enviromental and safety regulations.

The C of C is the manufacturers method of communicating the technical details for a specific Type Variant and Version of a vehicle. The information is as a direct result of that contained within the manufacturers information document which is as a result of the various tests carried out to achieve Type approval. The C of C is signed by a named Individual within the organization who has the legal responsibility to ensure the information is correct,  and to ensure the continued compliance with the type approval requirements.

[Lutz]

I don't know who receives the Certificate of Conformity for the respective vehicle in the UK if it's not the customer, but without the details shown on the certificate it is impossible to issue a V5c or any other registration document. That's why if an owner of a vehicle needs to re-register his vehicle in a foreign country he must have a copy of the C o C.

 

9 hours ago, joanie said:

I've copied the following;

Certificates of Conformity. A Certificate of Conformity (CoC) is a certificate issued by a vehicle manufacturer as evidence that a vehicle complies with a range of standards including enviromental and safety regulations.

 

And one of the requirements of the regulations is that the manufacturer documents the mass in running order (Item 13) and actual mass (Item 13.2).

Edited August 6, 2020 by Lutz