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Hi All,

 

looking at buying a caravan at the moment but need some HELP with what my car will tow, looking at Swift Europa 530 and the MTPLM weight is 1485kg and the MRO WEIGHT is 1263, the car is a Vauxhall insignia Estate turbo Diesel 1.6 ecotec ( 110ps) and the kerb weight is 1683kg , looking for help if my car will tow this caravan if anyone can help me on this please it would be much appreciated.

 

phil 

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Look on the cars VIN plate to get GTW and MAM figures. Subtract one from the other to get probable towing capacity. 
then add the car MAM to the caravan MTPLM. if this figure is over 3500, you need a B+E driving licence 

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You need to check the weight plate on your car as many sites are listing a max tow weight of 1405kg for the 1.6.

 

110PS isn't a lot for that weight of car and caravan.

Yeti 2.0TDi DSG 4X4 L&K, Octavia TSi Manual, Citigo ASG, Swift Challenger.

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3 hours ago, logiclee said:

You need to check the weight plate on your car as many sites are listing a max tow weight of 1405kg for the 1.6.

 

110PS isn't a lot for that weight of car and caravan.

Vauxhalls seem very confused about towing. Mine has a limit given as 1300kg in the V5 and handbook etc. But subtracting the GVW from the GTW gives a higher figure. Also the GVW includes a very high payload which would be difficult to reach. Would have thought the 1.6 diesel would have more than 110ps.The 1.6 Zafira had 136.

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1 hour ago, Dobloseven said:

Would have thought the 1.6 diesel would have more than 110ps.The 1.6 Zafira had 136.

The 1.6 diesel is made in a number of hp versions.

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When talking weights and Vauxhalls I always urge checking the weights on the VIN plate as Vauxhall, in fact all GM brands seem to change their weight ratings as frequently as the rest of the world changes it's underwear. Don't reply on what you find on the web, or what's in the handbook, or even on the V5. The vin plate attached to the car is the absolute authority. Find the maximum vehicle weight and the gross train weight. Take A from B and the result is the maximum your car is allowed to tow. 

 

The ecotec engine is available in two versions, 118bhp and 134bhp, yours is the lower but has more than enough torque to pull the van in question. I can't understand the emphasis on BHP when towing, and even the caravan clubs do it. BHP is not the measure of how much work an engine can do, torque is. BHP is, for want of a wholly accurate description an indication of how quickly it can do the work. In reality a decent balance of torque and horsepower is ideal, but torque is the more important.

 

If you do find you want to improve the performance without changing your car I would imagine the engine can be remapped fairly easily. 

 

Beware that if the gross vehicle weight exceeds 2015kg then adding the 1485kg maximum weight of your caravan you will exceed the 3500kg limit for a B license, you will need to make sure you have B+E entitlement. 

 

 

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It is the rated tow capacity of the car that sets your legal limit. Kerb weight is irrelevant just good practice to before than the van. Some of your models say 1300kg some 1400. Check your handbook but Not looking good. 

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9 hours ago, Dobloseven said:

Vauxhalls seem very confused about towing. Mine has a limit given as 1300kg in the V5 and handbook etc. But subtracting the GVW from the GTW gives a higher figure. Also the GVW includes a very high payload which would be difficult to reach. Would have thought the 1.6 diesel would have more than 110ps.The 1.6 Zafira had 136.

 

There's nothing confusing about that. It just means that if you don't load the car up to its GVW you can tow a load greater than the 1300kg so long as you don't exceed the GTW.

 

7 hours ago, PMW said:

I can't understand the emphasis on BHP when towing, and even the caravan clubs do it. BHP is not the measure of how much work an engine can do, torque is. BHP is, for want of a wholly accurate description an indication of how quickly it can do the work.

 

 

It's the BHP that gets you over the hill, not the torque. Work is force times distance and BHP is a measure of that, not torque.

 

Edited by Lutz
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1 hour ago, Lutz said:

.......Work is force times distance and BHP is a measure of that,.....

 

 

Time being the 3rd element of HP.

                      Stay safe - Griff.:ph34r:

Discovery 4 with a Bessacarr 845 behind

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8 hours ago, PMW said:

I can't understand the emphasis on BHP when towing, and even the caravan clubs do it. BHP is not the measure of how much work an engine can do, torque is. BHP is, for want of a wholly accurate description an indication of how quickly it can do the work. In reality a decent balance of torque and horsepower is ideal, but torque is the more important.

Torque means nothing it does nothing as stated hp does the work people say I have xxx lb of torque but if thats at 100 or 2000rpm it makes a huge difference to how it goes. People state torque for diesels as this is usually max at 2k which is where you normally drive and shows the hp you have ie 300lb of torque means 114hp.

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8 hours ago, PMW said:

 

 

The ecotec engine is available in two versions, 118bhp and 134bhp, yours is the lower but has more than enough torque to pull the van in question. I can't understand the emphasis on BHP when towing, and even the caravan clubs do it. BHP is not the measure of how much work an engine can do, torque is. BHP is, for want of a wholly accurate description an indication of how quickly it can do the work. In reality a decent balance of torque and horsepower is ideal, but torque is the more important.

 

 

 

 

Torque figures, at the flywheel, where it is invariably measured, are actually irrelevant. Torque at the wheels does matter and every IC engined vehicle has a torque multiplier between the two.

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1 hour ago, Edde said:

Torque means nothing it does nothing as stated hp does the work

 

tell that to my farmer friend with his John Deere 6110R. 110bhp, it alone weights over 6 tonnes, and often pulls trailers and implements in excess of it's own weight. 

 

Most people have little idea of what an engine 's power is, and no idea exactly what the torque figure represents. In fact, many cars that feel powerful are showing the effects of strong torque rather than high power output. 

 

An engine which produces a lot of torque over a wide range of engine speeds will be relaxing to drive because fewer gearchanges are needed: the engine's torque is often sufficient to accelerate the car without changing down. At cruising speeds a lorquey' engine will not need to be turning over very quickly because it can pull at high gearing, which makes for good economy.

 

Engines that produce a lot of power for their size do not usually produce so much torque, and what torque there is is often produced at higher engine speeds. It is also likely that the engine will be producing usable torque and power over a smaller range of engine speeds; this narrow 'power band ' makes the engine less suitable than a torquey or 'lazy' engine for jobs such as towing, and the car will be less relaxing to drive.

Edited by PMW
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It all depends on how far up the rev range the max torque is, max torque at 5000 revs is pretty useless for towing, ideally you want max torque at lower revs 2000 say, most diesels have this most petrols the latter

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For any size or make of engine or fuel type, wherever it occurs in the rpm range, peak torque is always the rpm of maximum engine efficiency.

Edited by limecc
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36 minutes ago, Arrand said:

It all depends on how far up the rev range the max torque is, max torque at 5000 revs is pretty useless for towing, ideally you want max torque at lower revs 2000 say, most diesels have this most petrols the latter

 

you mean former?

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46 minutes ago, Arrand said:

It all depends on how far up the rev range the max torque is, max torque at 5000 revs is pretty useless for towing, ideally you want max torque at lower revs 2000 say, most diesels have this most petrols the latter


I think you are a bit out of date with your information. Modern turbo petrol engines develop max. torque at roughly the same engine revs as diesels.

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1 hour ago, Lutz said:


I think you are a bit out of date with your information. Modern turbo petrol engines develop max. torque at roughly the same engine revs as diesels.

This.

 

I've stated previously that my turbo petrol vRS produces its max torque at lower revs than the turbo diesel vRS. 

2018 Octavia vRS 245 TSI Estate & 2016 Adria Altea 552 DT Tamar

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2 hours ago, Arrand said:

It all depends on how far up the rev range the max torque is, max torque at 5000 revs is pretty useless for towing, ideally you want max torque at lower revs 2000 say, most diesels have this most petrols the latter

 

Perhaps a decade or more ago that would be true.

 

Today modern turbo petrols produce maximum torque well below 2000rpm and maintain that over a much wider rpm band than diesel and hence have a higher power output.

 

The wider spread of torque allows the petrol to have shorter gearing meaning more torque at the wheels in each gear.

 

Example 

2.0 Diesel Single Turbo BMW 190PS and 400NM @1750rpm to 2500rpm

2.0 Petrol Single Turbo BMW 258PS and 400NM @1550rpm to 4400rpm

The petrol has 25% shorter gearing as well. 

Edited by logiclee

Yeti 2.0TDi DSG 4X4 L&K, Octavia TSi Manual, Citigo ASG, Swift Challenger.

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If the V5 and handbook say 1300kg then that is your limit. As the others say engines come with different tuning so the engine size is not the determining factor but the makers limit.

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7 hours ago, Lutz said:

 

There's nothing confusing about that. It just means that if you don't load the car up to its GVW you can tow a load greater than the 1300kg so long as you don't exceed the GTW.

 

 

It's the BHP that gets you over the hill, not the torque. Work is force times distance and BHP is a measure of that, not torque.

 

 

2 hours ago, Wildwood said:

If the V5 and handbook say 1300kg then that is your limit. As the others say engines come with different tuning so the engine size is not the determining factor but the makers limit.

Well, at least one of you is wrong! 

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26 minutes ago, Dobloseven said:

 

Well, at least one of you is wrong! 

 

No, nothing wrong. The 1300kg limit is what applies on a 12% gradient, as specified in the regulations. However, the manufacturer is at liberty to quote higher towing limits on gradients that are not so steep (usually 8%) if in his opinion the car is capable, although these are not shown on the V5. Vauxhall, Audi and others quite often make use of this option if there is a market demand. For a long time, it was common practice with Citroen, even on a 12% gradient.

Edited by Lutz
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