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IMG_1067.jpgthis the plate on my car  so what weight can i legally tow ?

 

 

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Any reluctance to change the advice is due to lack of resources to carry out meaningful research into the possibility of adjusting the 85%/100% figures. The effort required to establish meaningful alt

As Gary says, some people tow vans well in excess of the industry's recommendations and they manage perfectly well, but none of us know what's round the next corner when it could all go horribly wrong

Anyone not taking appropriate action on a downhill section by easing off the accelerator pedal or even lightly touching the brake is asking for trouble. Given due care on the part of the driver, there

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2100 kg

 I forgot to ask , what license entitlement do you have ? ..

 

Edited by daftbugga
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14 minutes ago, telegan said:

i passed my test before the restrictions came into force

In that case you should have BE on your licence. So the maximum weight you can tow is dictated by the vehicle . ( i suggest you look at V 5 to confirm ) .  

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The V5 might be wrong DB. The legally operative weights are always the ones on the mandatory plate as shown in the pic. It is these figures that are used in any roadside checks by a regulatory authority.

 

2135kg is the maximum the car is allowed to weigh = Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW).

4235kg is the maximum the car plus any trailer it is pulling can weigh = Gross Train Weight (GTW).

Take one from the other and that gets you 2100kg.

 

However, there is no legal reason that you could not run the car at, say 2000kg, and pull a trailer of 2235kg, as long as 4235kg is not exceeded. The secret is that neither of the maximums should be exceeded.

 

Most manufacturers also specify a maximum towing limit, which usually, but not always, matches the difference between the GTW and GVW. The towing limit is not a legally enforceable weight, but it is the maximum the manufacturer will allow and still accept liability for warranty claims. So exceed it at your peril.

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Again, like the V5, information can get garbled or be missing, on such sites. The mandatory VIN plate never lies.

 

I tried to find my car on that website yesterday, a 2020 Skoda Scala 1.0 DSG and it doesn't show. I then looked for the van I'm considering Elddis Xplore 422 and that doesn't show either.

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If you add four 100kg passengers and luggage plus driver, does the 2100kg  towing capacity reduce?

Edited by Pebble

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46 minutes ago, Pebble said:

If you add four 100kg passengers and luggage plus driver, does the 2100kg  towing capacity reduce?

 

The 2100kg difference between GVW and GTW  cannot be reduced by anything because the car's GVW (2135kg in this case) cannot legally be exceeded. As said, the 2100kg can be increased by not loading the car to its full GVW, but you risk exceeding the car manufacturer's towing limit if that's also 2100kg, but you won't be breaking any law. 

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The "towing limit" is, in effect, just advisory. You can ignore it at your own risk. You may also want to consider whether you are willing to drive with the actual weight of the caravan  potentially exceeding that of the car. HOWEVER, the Max Train Weight and MTPLM are mandatory and you can be prosecuted for exceeding either.

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So, if you understand the above you know what you can legally tow.

Then to be safe/sensible you need to consider the MTPLM of the caravan in relation to the "kerb weight" of your car.  The figures of 85% and 100% are generally discussed.

Ask again if you would like info on this!

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Posted (edited)

i would ideally like to tow a caravan that weighs  1642 kg

so if the manufacturer says the car can tow 2100kg is that ok

the car weighs 1565kg empty which means im above this 100% rule

im confused with all these figures

manufacturer says you can tow 2100kg

caravan club says you cannot as its above the 85%  or 100% rule

why does the manufacturer not say its only allowed to tow up to

100% of the weight of the car ??

anyone from the police or dvla on the forum that could maybe clarify

Edited by telegan
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Edited by Legal Eagle
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As cars become more powerful and more efficient they can manage to pull trailers of higher and higher weights. However with caravans it's not just a question of pulling a weight, there's also the dynamics of dragging a high sided box about that's affected by cross winds and other fast moving large vehicles and their wake. So the manufacturers quote a towing limit based on what the car can do, but as caravanners we have to be aware that it isn't necessarily what we'd like to do.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

well being a gas fitter for british gas  gas boiler manufacturers instructions take precident over any corgi now gas safe regulations.

thats why i think that the car manufacturers weights are ok for me to tow a caravan which is heavier than my empty car  but is lighter than my car when its in towing mode

all this is really confusing who is right or who is right

 

Edited by telegan
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Where do you get your empty weight from? 

Is it the kerb weight of the base mode of your vehicle range or ?

Does your V5 have figures on it for Mass in Service?

 

But legally you may tow a trailer and load up to the 2100 kg plated mass.

 

The Caravan Club and many others advise that the Kerb Weight (the vehicle mass in service approximately, which may be on the V5) should not be exceeded by the weight of a towed caravan and that novice towers should aim for a lighter 85%. 

It's for safety / best practice reasons. 

Caravan being high sided are relatively unstable / affected by cross-winds and other passing vehicles and you don't want the tail wagging the dog. 

 

Towing a trailer with a car or load of sand on may well be different.  The vehicle tow limit of 2100 kg is based on stopping and re-starting the combination on a gradient a number of times more than anything safety-related.

 

AIUI some Insurers have rules on what weights they will allow to be towed; so you may need to read your policy?

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In the eyes of towing limits and data there is NO differentiation between a caravan, with its high sides and centre of gravity making it unstable in some conditions and a twin axle trailer laden with sand.  They are all trailers falling into the under 3500kgs category.  Towing limits on cars are decided based on its ability to tow a "trailer".

 

Towing a laden twin axle trailer in excess of the tow vehicles kerbweight is a different case to towing a caravan (see earlier comments on high sides and C of G).  A car manufacturer states the maximum weight the vehicle can tow, not making different rules for different types of trailer.

 

For a caravan, the advice is to always keep the caravans laden weight below the unladen weight of the car as this will always ensure the tow car is heavier than the caravan thus HELPING (not ensuring) it remains stable.  If your car weighs 1565kgs empty then look for a caravan with an MTPLM under this.  If it has a towing limit of 2100kgs and you have to go and collect a tonne and a half of sand in an Ifor Williams trailer, then fine.  Don't mix the two though.

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2 minutes ago, telegan said:

well being a gas fitter for British gas  gas boiler manufacturers instructions take precident over any corgi now gas safe regulations.

That's why i think that the car manufacturers weights are ok for me to tow a caravan which is heavier than my empty car  but is lighter than my car when its in towing mode

all this is really confusing who is right or who is right

 

 

Caravan and car manufacturers are required to declare weights, the legislation enforced by the police and other statutory bodies then determines how they are used.

 

So it's the law set out by legislation that takes precedence.

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8 minutes ago, telegan said:

thats why i think that the car manufacturers weights are ok for me to tow a caravan which is heavier than my empty car  but is lighter than my car when its in towing mode

all this is really confusing who is right or who is right

 

 

Remember you are looking at ADVICE from the caravan organisations, NOT law.  However, it is sensible advice, not everyone follows it but the further your weight ratios move apart the higher the risk of not being able to control the two should instability/snaking occur.  Some tow caravans far in excess of their cars unladen weight with no issues but a lot don't.

 

There are a lot of other issues affecting stability other than weight ratios (loading, single versus twin axles etc), only you can decide what you feel comfortable with, I prefer to err on the side of caution.

 

One other point is that stated kerb weights are often the minimum for a model range rather than actual, actual weight shown on a weigh bridge could well be a lot higher.

Edited by GaryB1969
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i think im getting what you say but

if i had a 3ton 4wd going to tow the same caravan  and there are very high winds having a heavier car towing is not going to help really is it you still need to slow down.    if your braking with the heavier car then that may be better than a lighter car but i don't think a heavier car is going to help with high cross wind 

5 minutes ago, Grandpa Steve said:

 

Caravan and car manufacturers are required to declare weights, the legislation enforced by the police and other statutory bodies then determines how they are used.

 

So it's the law set out by legislation that takes precedence.

 

so whats the law say about my car and caravan weight ? 

am i ok ?

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As Gary says, some people tow vans well in excess of the industry's recommendations and they manage perfectly well, but none of us know what's round the next corner when it could all go horribly wrong for them. They just haven't come upon a set of circumstances that challenges them yet. So I'm another that errs on the side of caution.

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7 hours ago, joanie said:

look on   towcar.info       you can put your car details in and get the answers you want

 

its out of date with a lot of cars and vans

it seem to rely on the caravan club 85% rule

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1 minute ago, telegan said:

 

its out of date with a lot of cars and vans

it seem to rely on the caravan club 85% rule

 

Nothing wrong with a site, that is likely to be mostly consulted by newbies, using the industry (not just Caravan Club) advice for those new to caravanning.

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As said earlier, the LAW doesn't differentiate between a caravan and a trailer, so by LAW you are okay towing a caravan up to your gross train weight.  The ADVICE (not law) is to stay lower than this with a caravan.

Trailer towing LAW (not advice) can be found on the excellent NTTA web site here:

 

https://www.ntta.co.uk/law/

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19 minutes ago, telegan said:

am i ok ?

Yeah.     Go for it.   No probs.

 

That is what you wanted to hear isn't it?

 

-----------------------------------

 

You have a Skoda Yeti from your profile.  AIUI the VW group tend to quote KW without driver (so add 75 kg to your number to make 1640kg) and often on the base trim level, so you may be a tad heavier than even that number.  Add on the towbar and there's an extra, say, 30kg of mass on the towcar (or not, my towbar replaces a heavyish crash bar lump of steel in the back bumper).

 

Take it to a weighbridge to find the true weight? Then base your % on that weight rather than any theoretical number. 

 

My Galaxy V5 has Mass In Service for my model as opposed to a base level kerbweight.  As did a Freelander 2 (nearly 2 tonnes but published brochure KW was only 1700 kg approx for all!).

 

I'd now expect your actual ratio to be close to but under the 100%.  Perhaps a bit unwise for a novice tower but probably safe enough if the caravan is carefully loaded and caution is used?  Using a friction stabiliser or ATC would also be good.   But I might be wrong.  DO go weigh your car!

 

NB we are all assuming the caravan 1642kg is the MTPLM and not MIRO figure with a much higher MTPLM.

I also just checked one towbar makers site and they limit the towbar for a Yeti to only 1800 kg, i.e. below the 2100 kg you quote. So that may need careful selection, too. (I had a similar problem when sourcing a towbar when Ford changed the nose weight limit from 80kg to 90kg for the Galaxy, and most still specified 80kg!).

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