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Dobloseven

Oil change

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Do any of you guys still  change your own engine oil these days?The Zafira I bought last year to use as a work vehicle is 3 1/2 years old and telling me it needed changing. Ex Motability so had been serviced by dealer a couple of times. Was going to take it somewhere, but looked so easy to do, I thought I might as well have a go. No problems at all, indicator is easy to reset,no special tools needed, total cost 38 quids including an air filter which was also easy enough. Not like eldest sons current partners Audi A3 which he does regularly round at ours. Undertray needs to be removed, very little room underneath, service indicator needs resetting electronically etc. 

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Nah! C.B.A. 

 

Cant

Be 

Ahhhhhh 

 

Ramps, drain tray, sump plug that won’t undo, oil up the arm, trying to catch all the oil out of the filter as you unscrew it, cleaning up the inevitable drip/dribble of old oil on the driveway 

 

Far too much faff, I had enough engine oil hair rinses when I did my apprenticeship as a mechanic in 1970. 

 

Its not a difficult job but with a modern car you need a computer to do just about everything else, so I take it to my garage, it costs a fair bit but my car represents a hefty financial investment.

 

 

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Experience is an awful teacher who ends up sending you simply horrifying bills

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9 minutes ago, Dobloseven said:

Do any of you guys still  change your own engine oil these days?

 

We have five cars in our family fleet and I've always done our own oil changes.   However, I don't bend quite as well as I used to so I only do three of them.   Daughter's C4 is still under warranty so she needs the book stamped and that goes to the dealer.   I get a lube service done (with the MOT) on my own C5 simply because to drain the sump, the undertray needs removing and I don't find it easy to lie on my back, hold up the tray and replace the seven screws.   Air, fuel and cabin filters I still do myself.   On the C1, the Saxo and the 306, it's easy. Drive up the ramp, undo the plug and screw off the filter.   20minutes all in.

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Citroen C5 Exclusive Estate+Avondale Rialto 480/2
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Yes, 2/3 of them. I do my wife’s Fiat 500 and my old American Ford but the Volvo goes to the garage, it hasn’t got a dip stick & the filter is awkward to get to. Plus I intend to change it every 3 years & full history will help, the Fiat will be with us for ten years so history isn’t so critical (but I log everything I do to it and keep receipts), the Ford was built in 1957 and probably won’t be on any of the main dealers systems....

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2018 Volvo V90 and 2018 Swift Sprite Quattro EB

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Despite being 74 I still do the oil changes (& all the other servicing!) on 4 family cars. Mainly because I don't trust any-one else to do it to my standards. I seen the half-baked efforts employed by many garages, & they make me cringe! There's also the cost advantage which is approx. 1/3 to 1/2 of garage charges! An oil & filter change is the cheapest (get it for a fraction of shop prices off e-bay!) & most beneficial thing you will ever do to make an engine last longer. It's even more beneficial if done more often than the (ludicrously large periods) manufacturers state. Modern diesels, with DPF,  especially benefit as they are prone to diesel fuel polluting the oil.

 

A few tips, gained the hard way over the years, for those enthusiastic to do their own:

1, ALWAYS drain the oil HOT & leave it to FULLY drain. Most garages can't be bothered so some of the old oil & crud gets left in. Hardly the way to obtain the best results.

2, After the oil has reduced to a drip tip in 1/2L of fresh oil to help flush out any stubborn pockets of old oil & let this drain for 5 mins. min.

3, Prime the new filter with oil to reduce 'dry' start-up time, especially with a diesel.

4, Never store a vehicle for long periods without first changing the oil, the naturally occurring acids, in used oil,  will do no good at all.

5, Enjoy spending the large amount you have saved & bask in the glow of a job well done.

 

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3L auto Nissan Terrano, 2004 & Swift Elegance 530, 2018. As Leonardo da Vinci once said: 'If you find from your own experience that something is a fact & it contradicts what some authority has written down, then you must abandon the authority & base your reasoning on your own findings' ie: use your common sense!

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Our Korando is a year older than the Zafira and done more miles, but still has some warranty left so I take that to the supplying dealer for an annual sevice which until recent times, worked out perfectly for time/mileage. Must admit I think this was the easiest oil and filter change I've ever done and in a perverted sort of way I enjoyed doing it. Think in someway because its a  small petrol engine in a space designed for a much larger diesel engine, so plenty of room to work. 

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Posted (edited)

If you want an easy life get one of those oil pumps I have one put the pipe down the dipstick the pump makes a vacume and sucks the oil up into a tank. Easy to clean up and having seen tests you get 98% of the oil out 4.9 vs 5 liters out.

 

This is similar to mine

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pela-6000-Oil-Pump-Extraction/dp/B002EJ2GUC

Edited by Edde

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We let the garage do it, both cars under warranty. The Santa Fe has a health check one year service the next. As we don't do a high mileage, we pay for optional oil change at the health check. Just me being fussy.

 

My Mini has no dipstick just a check through on board menu. I can't even see the brake and clutch master cylinders! Probably under the plastic covers. No mention in handbook, it tells me when service is due when I start it. Next year!

Last oil changes I did were when I had my classic Land Rover and Range Rover a few years ago.


Hyundai Santa Fe+Bailey Unicorn Cadiz

Mini Cooper convertible -fun Car!:)

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39 minutes ago, micktheshed said:

Despite being 74 I still do the oil changes (& all the other servicing!) on 4 family cars. Mainly because I don't trust any-one else to do it to my standards. I seen the half-baked efforts employed by many garages, & they make me cringe! There's also the cost advantage which is approx. 1/3 to 1/2 of garage charges! An oil & filter change is the cheapest (get it for a fraction of shop prices off e-bay!) & most beneficial thing you will ever do to make an engine last longer. It's even more beneficial if done more often than the (ludicrously large periods) manufacturers state. Modern diesels, with DPF,  especially benefit as they are prone to diesel fuel polluting the oil.

 

A few tips, gained the hard way over the years, for those enthusiastic to do their own:

1, ALWAYS drain the oil HOT & leave it to FULLY drain. Most garages can't be bothered so some of the old oil & crud gets left in. Hardly the way to obtain the best results.

2, After the oil has reduced to a drip tip in 1/2L of fresh oil to help flush out any stubborn pockets of old oil & let this drain for 5 mins. min.

3, Prime the new filter with oil to reduce 'dry' start-up time, especially with a diesel.

4, Never store a vehicle for long periods without first changing the oil, the naturally occurring acids, in used oil,  will do no good at all.

5, Enjoy spending the large amount you have saved & bask in the glow of a job well done.

 

 

Many garages remove the oil through the dipstick tube, where fitted, these days, even main dealers, nice and quick, no under tray to bother about, no seized or cross threaded sump plugs, no sump plug washers going missing.

 

Great for profit and bonuses, not that great for the engine, with the crud left in the sump that would drain out, but can't all be sucked out, plus the only warming it may get is the 100 yards from the car park to the workshop.

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2 hours ago, Silversurf said:

 

Many garages remove the oil through the dipstick tube, where fitted, these days, even main dealers, nice and quick, no under tray to bother about, no seized or cross threaded sump plugs, no sump plug washers going missing.

 

Regarding suction oil changing.

In the early 2000's when PSA agreed with Ford to share with them their DW10 2ltr HDI engine,  Ford also agreed to share the DV6 1.6HDI.   Ford used the 2ltr engine in the Focus, C-max and Mondeo.   Citroen/Peugeot used the 1.6 in the C3, C4, and a few in the C5. Peugeot also used them in their smaller cars.   Citroen very quickly became aware that cars, still well within the warranty period , were breaking down with engine trouble.   Nearly all the breakdowns were caused by turbo faults.   Bearings were collapsing, with fragments being ingested into the engine and destroying it.   Citroen notified their dealer workshops giving them explicit instructions on how oil changes would be carried out in the future.   Service intervals were reduced from 20K to 12K.   There was an outright ban on suction oil changing.    Oil temperature had to be correct before draining, and a specific time was set before the drain plug was replaced.      Most importantly, the correct oil specified for the engine must be used.

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4 hours ago, Edde said:

If you want an easy life get one of those oil pumps I have one put the pipe down the dipstick the pump makes a vacume and sucks the oil up into a tank. Easy to clean up and having seen tests you get 98% of the oil out 4.9 vs 5 liters out.

 

This is similar to mine

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pela-6000-Oil-Pump-Extraction/dp/B002EJ2GUC

 

Definitely the way to go, there are those who will baulk at the last drips that vacuum doesn't remove but realistically I think the change of the 95%+ is far more important than worrying about the residue. Vacuum is the way many dealers do it these days. If some folks want to make work for themselves then so be it, in the real world I think vacuum is fine. 

 

With this in mind we really need to see the manufacturers making filter available from the top. Oil change on my Benz is a piece of cake, filter changeable from on top and oil removed by vacuum via dip tube, could not be simpler.  Making it easier makes it far more likely it will be done. 

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Pumping the oil out is ok if done on a new/ish car you don't intend to keep long.

When my father did a service, he dropped the oil and filter when engine hot, then let it drip for a while. (as stated by Micktheshed). He then stuck a finger in the sump to see the colour of the residue as a lot of greyish material showed undue wear. On occasion, this test would show small particles of metal which indicated a component was starting to break up. If either of the above happened he would pour a small quantity of very thin oil in the engine as a flush. Catching the out flow in a tin for further examination. The results of this indicated if further investigation was required. Admittedly, most of this work was done on heavy diesel engines. In these days it was doing the job properly, not todays lick and a promise.

Perhaps he wouldn't do this now considering the advances made in oil technology

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Anyone who has removed a sump and seen all the muck in the bottom will be upset if they found out their garage was sucking the oil out through the dipstick hole. Just draining in a bowl there is a lot of thicker stuff that comes out and can be seen when cleaning the bowl out. Perhaps somebody on here who sucks their oil out might afterwards then remove the sump drain and see what else comes out as a test.

 

I do my own servicing on our cars when they no longer have a warranty and even clean the brakes when still under warranty since this is not part of the service.

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3 minutes ago, Paul1957 said:

....... Perhaps somebody on here who sucks their oil out might afterwards then remove the sump drain and see what else comes out as a test.....

 

I have done exactly that with each of my cars, that is why I am happy to vacuum. Engines are always hot, cars lifted to provide best possible angle for the sump plug to release the debris. In my experience it doesn't make a difference, there is no excess of crud that is released from the sump drain. And if you look carefully sump drains are not always positioned to release every last drop of oil anyway. 

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I'm with Mr Plodd - CBAH.

Life is too short to be grovelling under a car for the sake of saving £50 or whatever.

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Land Rover on SORN so not towing anything for a while

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Posted (edited)

im very fussy so i do all work on my 2, my sierra and focus, only jobs the garage does is things like clutch and welding that im unable to all rest is done by me, i know my cars and i dont trust garages as seen too many mistakes, plus if i do it i know wots been done etc, i do my sierra at 3000mls and focus at 5000mls, i always do my oil changes warm as its thinner and runs faster so drains better, sierra will never be sold so im happy with that, its easy with basic tools

Edited by robbie244
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Just to clarify using the pump the oil has to be warm because unless you have some seriously powerful pump the oil will move very very slowly .

 

Have a look on YouTube (other platforms are available) people have done a pump then removed the sump and the extra coming out is very small. If I only suck the oil every 10k/ 6 months the dealer does the proper normal service ever 20k/1yr and drops the oil from the sump. I wouldn't always suck the oil as the sump is magnetic so any metal can be seen on a proper service.

 

Whilst I agree dropping the tank would allow to check for metal etc in the oil who actually drop the oil and checks anyway? If this issue worries you I would recomend you also do oil analysis at every oil change which would show metal issues early.  If you do this then you could do it with a pump anyway.

 

As to easy to get to oil filters totally agree mine is located in a crazy position recommendations on how to remove it unless to remove all the covers under the car is to remove the wheel arch liners and use some off cut guttering. That's crazy.

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1 hour ago, blondchaser76 said:

Pumping the oil out is ok if done on a new/ish car you don't intend to keep long.

When my father did a service, he dropped the oil and filter when engine hot, then let it drip for a while. (as stated by Micktheshed). He then stuck a finger in the sump to see the colour of the residue as a lot of greyish material showed undue wear. On occasion, this test would show small particles of metal which indicated a component was starting to break up. If either of the above happened he would pour a small quantity of very thin oil in the engine as a flush. Catching the out flow in a tin for further examination. The results of this indicated if further investigation was required. Admittedly, most of this work was done on heavy diesel engines. In these days it was doing the job properly, not todays lick and a promise.

Perhaps he wouldn't do this now considering the advances made in oil technology

 

Many truck fleet owners, trains, generating plants, ships, etc. don't go by a mileage or hours run regime  for oil changes they do it by sampling, a small sample is taken, sent to a lab where it is checked for contaminants, water, biological, fuel, metals, and the structure of the oil is checked.

 

The advantage of this system is that the oil is only changed when it needs to be changed, the source of any contaminants can be addressed before they cause problems and the quantity and type of any metallic particles can be identified to determine what component they come from and what the timescale for further investigating and intervention is required.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

Nah! C.B.A. 

 

Cant

Be 

Ahhhhhh 

 

Ramps, drain tray, sump plug that won’t undo, oil up the arm, trying to catch all the oil out of the filter as you unscrew it, cleaning up the inevitable drip/dribble of old oil on the driveway 

 

Far too much faff, I had enough engine oil hair rinses when I did my apprenticeship as a mechanic in 1970. 

 

Its not a difficult job but with a modern car you need a computer to do just about everything else, so I take it to my garage, it costs a fair bit but my car represents a hefty financial investment.

 

 

I agree with Andy , I am not no mechanic myself but over the years I have done lots of oil changes on my cars and motorbikes , even a few top end re-builds. ( motorbikes )

But modern cars today , you need a computer for everything  , if something went wrong I would not know where to start , its just a block :D.

I had a puncture a little while back , I put the glue in as it said but it did not get me home so I rang the AA ( I could not believe I was doing this over a flat ).

He came out and jacked it up and span the wheel for the glue to go all around the inside , he said you have to do that for it to work ,I told him the car does not have a jack , he says , really , nope , my last two cars have not had one , why put the glue in :blink: , does not make sense  to me , anyway yes I carry a trolley  jack with me now.

But I would rather pay someone  if I had to do an oil change with modern cars the way they are.

Edited by MichelleL

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The last thing I want to do when at home is get the spanners out, I have enough of them at work .....I so can't be  bothered these day......old age I guess. The oil just gets changed on a service.

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As a slight drift the early BMC fwd cars all had sump plugs with protruding magnets on them. It was amazing just how much metal swarf those sump plugs collected between oil changes. Having said that the engine and gearboxes used the same oil and the argument was they collected the fine swarf that came off the gearing in the gearbox.  BUT no other cars had magnetic drain plugs in the gearboxes!! Curious huh?

 

 

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Experience is an awful teacher who ends up sending you simply horrifying bills

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1 minute ago, Mr Plodd said:

As a slight drift the early BMC fwd cars all had sump plugs with protruding magnets on them. It was amazing just how much metal swarf those sump plugs collected between oil changes. Having said that the engine and gearboxes used the same oil and the argument was they collected the fine swarf that came off the gearing in the gearbox.  BUT no other cars had magnetic drain plugs in the gearboxes!! Curious huh?

 

 

I'm sure when I've drained transmissions on rwd and conventional fwd cars, I've had to clean the swarf off magnetic drain plugs before refitting them.All a long while ago though. Always makes me smile when the original Mini is cited as a trendsetter,when really it showed all the other carmakers how not to do it. 

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7 minutes ago, Dobloseven said:

Always makes me smile when the original Mini is cited as a trendsetter,when really it showed all the other carmakers how not to do it. 

I never owned them but have worked on them and driven them and, to drive they were great as far as road holding.


Alan

 

2005 Nissan X-trail 4WD diesel and Swift Charisma 540 2012 Lunar Clubman ES  2018 Lunar Clubman ES

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19 minutes ago, Easy T said:

I never owned them but have worked on them and driven them and, to drive they were great as far as road holding.

Great little cars, my dad had one of the first Austin Se7ens as they were called. Not a great commercial success though. Putting the gears in the sump never caught on, nor did rubber suspension, sideways radiators, heavy subframes, external hinges and seams, sliding windows etc. First truly" modern" front wheel drive car was the Autobianchi A110 of the mid sixties which used an end on transmission with unequal length drive shafts and conventional suspension. That set the pattern for the Fiat 128 and 127 models. Another early adopter was the Simca 1100.

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1 hour ago, Dobloseven said:

 I've had to clean the swarf off magnetic drain plugs before refitting them.

 

Lots of replacement magnetic sump plugs on ebay from a £5 upwards.


Citroen C5 Exclusive Estate+Avondale Rialto 480/2
https://jondogoescaravanning.com

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