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Hursty_30

Help needed regarding contaminated diesel

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Long story shot I put £50 Of diesel in my 2017 bmw 330d which was showing 18 mile on the range on Thursday 25th on Saturday 27th the car cut out on me and wouldn’t start, the car was Recovered into bmw dealership and diagnosed with contaminated fuel pretty obvious when viewing the fuel extracted by bmw I will include pictures, so now it’s not a warranty claim the cost is down to me. So I called the local filling station (independently owned branded as texaco) and they said it cannot be from them as no one else had complained of this issue, that filling station wast the last 2 places that I have filled. I reported to trading standards and have sent away a sample to be analysed and I have a report from bmw sating the fuel is contaminated. The bill for repair is sounding rather expensive and I would like to try and find out if any one else has ever had or heard of issues like this. I call round at the station tonight whilst they where having a fuel delivery  and questioned the cashier not the owner he was very defensive but I did get some good photos of the fuel inlet to the tank. I would be interested what you all have to say and you opinions.

thanks 

Ed

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Posted (edited)

Looks as if there is some water in the sample glass. Where did you get your sample from since any water would be at the bottom of the tank or bottom of the fuel filter? When did you last fill up your car, is it many months ago, just in case the fuel has gone off in the tank. If the station was just having a fresh delivery, is it possible you filled up your car with the dregs in their tank ? You could check your car insurance to see if this is covered and your breakdown cover but it is probably too late for that.

Edited by Paul1957

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Posted (edited)

The only incident I can recall was the very well publicised supermarket fuel contaminated by water saga some years ago.

 

To make any claim to reimburse the cost of repairs, it must be proved that the fuel at the service station was contaminated when you purchased it and to do that you need samples from all of their diesel storage tanks, or rather, trading standards do. Without that evidence it will be very hard to prove liability and to disprove it was contaminated after you refuelled.

 

Edited by Legal Eagle
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The Sample was in the picture with the glass that was from the fuel rail done by bmw. Last filled up on the 27th before that was a week before that at the same place it’s our only car and Is in daily use 

I didn’t contact trading standards direct and the council said there is no direct number to them, they gave me a number for citizens advice which then they have to contact trading standards. 

Legal eagle I presume it’s quite a hard thing to prove but it can be the only place it has had fuel.  I’m just worried they hide any evidence from the tank 

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Your photo of the inlet pipe basically shows it has a drop of water. Had it been 3/4s full it might of tipped in your balance


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Posted (edited)

Sounds like contaminated fuel, makes you wonder what the tanker had been used for before the delivery of diesel. If having a change of use they should be washed out and dried. I worked in the chemical industry and we had a contaminated oil delivery which cost quite a bit to sort out and involved audits to see what was happening. In storage tanks any water that gets in through natural breathing of air in/out of the tanks results in water building up at the bottom if the product floats on water. This water should be removed occasionally. Could also be if the station tank had just been filled and not allowed to settle before you filled up your car since any water/dirt at the bottom is likely to be stirred up when the storage tank is filled.

2 minutes ago, JanandJay said:

Your photo of the inlet pipe basically shows it has a drop of water. Had it been 3/4s full it might of tipped in your balance

Diesel is normally clear and not a dirty brown colour so the water ought to be clear as well.

Edited by Paul1957

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Paul thank you for your input the owner of the station said that the tank had been filled that morning I am going to ring the supplier of the fuel (Valero) tomorrow morning and ask for a date and time When the filled. should easily be done as the tanker may have been on a tacho break when they where filling the tank 

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Shouldnt be taking a tacho break while hes working🤔

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I know nothing about lorries was just a thought he might break when he fills tank so I could get a good time when they filled the tanks that day 

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Hursty_30 said:

I know nothing about lorries was just a thought he might break when he fills tank so I could get a good time when they filled the tanks that day 

They should have a proof of delivery which again should show date & time of signature, may even be  an electronic document.

Good luck making a claim, Its happened to me before, but luckily I was not the only one that reported a problem that was proven back to a particular delivery, it took months and months but I got my money back in the end, making it worse at the time I had an Audi A6 and Audi decided it needed a new fuel tank which took weeks to arrive.. As I say good luck but be prepared for a long fight..

Edited by Jacko1

2018 Volvo XC60  D4 AWD + Penshurst Premier Plus (AKA Elddis Affinity 550)

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Posted (edited)

Going down to 18 miles on the range, implies that the tank itself was all but empty with what remains of fuel really doing a good job sloshing about and lifting the "bottoms" up into the draw off.

Looked at that way, the contamination could have been picked up ages ago, the fuel filter coalescer then doing its job as intended, till overwhelmed with the final stirred up contents from the tank. 

 

Sadly, unless you can turn the clock back and have a direct sample from the station's tank in question, or the number of similar issues, identifying that station at the same time, come apparent, then I think you will get nowhere.

Ensure the car's tank is very effectively flushed as part of the rectification.

 

 

 

Edited by JTQ

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Yes they say it needs new tank,  fuel lines, low pressure pump, fuel filter, maybe high pressure pump and inspect the injectors, yes I’m going to keep at them and gaining more evidence, yes would be easier if someone else had issues with the pump, but I suppose that’s me taking there word for them saying no one else has had an issue. 

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Posted (edited)

Try contacting your local newspaper.  Have you heard directly from Trading Standards?  Is your complaint formally submitted to them (albeit via CAB)?  Do bank statements or credit card statements prove where you refuelled?

Edited by kelper

Skoda Yeti 2.0 Outdoor DSG.  Freedom Jetstream Sports Twin Flare.  Reich mover.

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Ask the garage if they have an ATV probe in the derv tank and it it is working correctly, they will have one,they measure both the fuel and water, if there is any, levels.

 

All so contact Texaco, who will be the owner of the site and the tanks and ask them to do a dip test for water and contamination, they do this by dropping a tube through the inspection manhole to the base of the tank and draw out a sample, also ask them the age of the tanks and the last time they were checked for water, sediment and corrosion and what the report was, and the last time the tanks were drained of water.

 

There are only 3 ways can enter the tank 1) in the fuel, 2) groundwater contamination, in includes via the filling manholes etc and condensation.

 

 

4 minutes ago, JTQ said:

Going down to 18 miles on the range, implies that the tank itself was all but empty with what remains of fuel really doing a good job sloshing about and lifting the "bottoms" up into the draw off.

Looked at that way, the contamination could have been picked up ages ago, the fuel filter coalescer then doing its job as intended, till overwhelmed with the final stirred up contents from the tank. 

 

Sadly, unless you can turn the clock back and have a direct sample from the station's tank in question, or the number of similar issues, identifying that station at the same time, come apparent, then I think you will get nowhere.

Ensure the car's tank is very effectively flushed as part of the rectification.

 

 

 

 

On a three year old car, there should be very little sediment, as the car is being driven it is constantly being churned and over time the fuel filter picks this sediment up, cut a used one in half,it's amazing how much it has picked up.

 

The big clue is the colour of the derv and the water and the sediment, rusty brown...........................the BMW fuel tank is plastic !

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Posted (edited)

What investigation are trading standards carrying out and how much of it might you be interfering with?

The time of the delivery proves little except that there was a delivery which I doubt would be denied. 

This is covered, amongst other things, by the Consumer Rights Act 2015 as the supply of goods which are of unsatisfactory quality and unfit for their intended purpose and your sales contract is with the service station not their supplier. Only two things are needed to prove the case and any compensation claim you follow up with - 1. You purchased the goods from that service station.  2. Their fuel was contaminated at the point of that sale.

For 1 you need proof of purchase and for 2 a sample of the fuel from their stock.

You have 1, trading standards are empowered to obtain 2 in a controlled manner. You don't need to know if it was contaminated in the lorry or contaminated at the service station  you just need proof it was contaminated at the point of sale.

 

It cannot be ruled out that contamination occurred after you had refueled, despite what you think, so keep an open mind until it is proved one way or the other. Be careful not to prejudice any case by making evidential disclosures or unfounded allegations on public platforms.

 

Edited by Legal Eagle
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Kelper no in I have not contacted local newspaper but have thought about putting something on the local Facebook opinions page. Im not sure if CAB have contacted trading standards as or not they wouldn’t give me contact number to them. Yes I have bank statements Stating the date and time

 

silver surf yes I will ask them today about an ATV probe, I have contacted texaco and they say that they only have a licence to use the branding of texaco and don’t have texaco products they use Valero for there fuels and the station is independently owned. The tanks look old on visual inspection, I was talking to someone and they said there is a 25year lifespan on the Tank and after 20 year they need to be inspected every year. I have asked him for a copy of inspection report but the owner has gone quite on me 

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Legal I wanted to know the time they had delivery as to know weather I had freshly delivered fuel or the bottom of the tank and someone on here also mention a new delivery can disturb the sediment at the bottom of the tank, citizens advice have told me to use a pre done letter regarding consumer rights act which I will do then send signed for delivery they then have 15 days to respond, my issue is with the service station. I couldn’t get a sample from the pump because as soon as I mentioned to them via phone call I drove to the station and that pump was out of order so couldn’t get a sample I have photos. I’m not the kind of person to spout off all over social media but on the other hand there maybe other people out there in the same situation that don’t know of this issue  and have been told the same by the station that no one else has had an issue that’s me just taking there word 

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Sadly, I don't think the evidence is there to lay blame at the last refill.  I however hope you can find something concrete.

 

I had more than a little involvement professionally in investigating diesel fuel contamination,

 

The occurrence of the issues with contamination, can as explained be due to picking up contamination way back, the passage of time itself is often involved in manifesting the problem, as is running low good at provoking its outcome.

 

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Posted (edited)

Hursty_30, you have reported it, via CAB, to trading standards. As the enforcement authority they have all the powers to investigate. What difference does it make to your case whether you had fuel from the bottom or top of the storage tank? If it was contaminated at the point of sale that is all you need.

CAB have advised you of the procedure so follow their advice. Think carefully about what you are doing. What do your photographs prove against the service station? Is your informant about storage tank life and inspections an industry expert entitled to give evidence of those facts or opinions? Don't be surprised if people involved go quiet on you now. Would you readily cooperate with someone making a quite serious allegation against you with potentially significant financial implications?

 

I'm not suggesting you will "spout off" on social media (including this forum). I'm just advising you to be careful about what you do put out on public platforms as it could prejudice your case and that of trading standards.

Edited by Legal Eagle
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11 minutes ago, Hursty_30 said:

Legal I wanted to know the time they had delivery as to know weather I had freshly delivered fuel or the bottom of the tank and someone on here also mention a new delivery can disturb the sediment at the bottom of the tank, citizens advice have told me to use a pre done letter regarding consumer rights act which I will do then send signed for delivery they then have 15 days to respond, my issue is with the service station. I couldn’t get a sample from the pump because as soon as I mentioned to them via phone call I drove to the station and that pump was out of order so couldn’t get a sample I have photos. I’m not the kind of person to spout off all over social media but on the other hand there maybe other people out there in the same situation that don’t know of this issue  and have been told the same by the station that no one else has had an issue that’s me just taking there word 

 

When you say that the derv pump is out of order, is there just the one or several and are they out of order, if so it's a sign that there is a problem in the tank , not with the pumps, also most small filling stations have only one derv tank to serve all pumps.

 

I had a chat with my neighbour, who works in the petrochemical field and she says that if there is contamination, that all fuel should be removed to the water level, the tank is then bottomed to remove water and sediment, inspected with cameras, if no sign of excess corrosion, the bottom is flushed, re- examined to determine it is clear of sediment and re-filled.

 

Keep a daily eye on the station between now and the pump going back into use, if as you suspect the tank is contaminated, it will have to be drained, contaminated fuel, water and sediment removed and it isn't a quick job done by specialist teams.

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1 hour ago, Hursty_30 said:

Yes they say it needs new tank,  fuel lines, low pressure pump, fuel filter, maybe high pressure pump and inspect the injectors, yes I’m going to keep at them and gaining more evidence, yes would be easier if someone else had issues with the pump, but I suppose that’s me taking there word for them saying no one else has had an issue. 

That sounds excessive, I can understand that sediment can damage pumps, but surely the at least the tank and fuel lines can be cleaned. It seems to me that the BMW dealer may be profiteering on your misfortune.

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I haven’t mention any names on this fourm or the location only that it is texaco garage,  I was just asking for advice on how to handle this situation the best way possible as I understand there is a good array of professionals amongst us all on this fourm. I will leave it in the hands of trading standards but I will be prepared to foot the nearly 2k bill myself, I will be avoiding the station at all costs that’s for sure 

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I remember seeing a program on BBC rip off Britain last year this is more common than you think !..A lot of fuel suppliers are adding all sorts of additives at the moment to "test them" ...May be worth having a look a their website or even contacting them....?

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They cannot be sure to remove all contamination by flushing out and if it means me keeping my warranty I would agree with them 

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3 minutes ago, Hursty_30 said:

They cannot be sure to remove all contamination by flushing out and if it means me keeping my warranty I would agree with them 

I take your point about keeping your warranty. They have you over a barrel.

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