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CMC CL Closures

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Like many we use both clubs mainly for their CS and CL sites, but what the heck is going on at the CMC? The club magazine this month lists 1 new CL and 33 closures!

 

BH

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The site near me (CS) has been told if he does not want to open this year he will be de-listed as closed and have to apply to become a CS from next year again. Perhaps the same is true of CLs.

 

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I notice a house a few miles from us has just gone up for sale. It has a caravanning field attached (not sure if it's a CS/CL ). I wonder if the lack of income due to lockdown has affected the owners decision to sell up.


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but to settle down and write you a line.

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I think the exemption permits are actually withdrawn by the clubs at the moment while the government restriction is in place. I dont know what procedure is required to restore the permits. The default position if the owner doesn't do something or other requested by the club  could be de-listing (closed).

In the UK, we use predominantly CL's and ocasional Cs's. We are members of both clubs primarily for these small informal sites. Lets hope the CL and CS  network are not too badly damaged.


Ern

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I believe the CMC apply the CL rules very strictly so maybe rules have been broken.  Have the CMC given a reason for the 33 closures?


Regards, David
Ford Kuga ST line 2ltr. Diesel 2017,  Bailey Pursuit 11 400/2 2018, Emove em303 motor mover, Hyundai 1000i Generator.

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Most of the above replies seem to imply the closures are caused by the pandemic and lockdown … but I’m pretty sure any closures reported in the magazine will have happened quite a while ago … a CL we know sold up in Feb 2019, but the closure didn’t appear in the mag until last December!

 

John

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12 minutes ago, Johnaldo said:

Most of the above replies seem to imply the closures are caused by the pandemic and lockdown … but I’m pretty sure any closures reported in the magazine will have happened quite a while ago … a CL we know sold up in Feb 2019, but the closure didn’t appear in the mag until last December!

 

John

That is worrying.


Ern

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A CL we used, applied to open a second one on the farm! They were told yes, as long as you build an Earth bank so one CL cannot see the other.

They just shut up as a CL and operate as a 10 caravan independent site!


2019 Bailey Platinum (640) Phoenix from Chipping Sodbury caravans, towed by our  2017 my Discovery Sport!

 

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does it mean that they have or are closing permanently or that the CL's are just no longer  under the CMC banner? Perhaps if it's one that you use, a phone call may be in order. 

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We noticed that two local CL's that have been running for many years have removed their CL signs and are no longer listed on the CMC directory.  All a bit odd, possibly a co-incidence?


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3 hours ago, joanie said:

does it mean that they have or are closing permanently or that the CL's are just no longer  under the CMC banner? Perhaps if it's one that you use, a phone call may be in order. 


It’ll be a bit of both, Joanie. The CMC lists them as “closures”, but in some cases that will mean closure as a CL, but staying on as a caravan site and now unable to use the “CL” title.

 

John

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Expand or die .  Limiting yourself to five customers who have joined one particular Club is no way to run a business of any sort. 

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3 minutes ago, moorgate said:

Expand or die .  Limiting yourself to five customers who have joined one particular Club is no way to run a business of any sort. 

 

Without registering with either Caravan Club or C&CC a householder with a piece of suitable ground couldn't get around the planning laws.   They need one of the clubs because of their exemption certificates.

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5 minutes ago, moorgate said:

Expand or die .  Limiting yourself to five customers who have joined one particular Club is no way to run a business of any sort. 

I do not think CLs are meant to be that sort of thing.

 


Regards, David
Ford Kuga ST line 2ltr. Diesel 2017,  Bailey Pursuit 11 400/2 2018, Emove em303 motor mover, Hyundai 1000i Generator.

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29 minutes ago, Jaydug said:

 

Without registering with either Caravan Club or C&CC a householder with a piece of suitable ground couldn't get around the planning laws.   They need one of the clubs because of their exemption certificates.

 

Come on !  There are lots who have got planning permission. Some sites it's true started as CL or CS but others  started from scratch.  

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35 minutes ago, moorgate said:

Expand or die .  Limiting yourself to five customers who have joined one particular Club is no way to run a business of any sort. 

 

29 minutes ago, Jaydug said:

 

Without registering with either Caravan Club or C&CC a householder with a piece of suitable ground couldn't get around the planning laws.   They need one of the clubs because of their exemption certificates.

 

28 minutes ago, David 38 said:

I do not think CLs are meant to be that sort of thing.

 

 

David - you will find Moorgate and Jaydug are correct. They are only available to club members and limited to 5 vans as shown below

 

Copied below from the Camping Club

https://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/UKCS/smallsites/setting-up-a-certificated-site/

 

  Quote

We hold special exemptions from Natural England to establish small caravan and camping sites for our members, meaning that you won’t need planning permission or a site licence from your Local Authority.

 

Copied below from the Caravan Club

https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/setting-up-a-certificated-location/

 

  Quote

At the Club, we have the ability to issue CL certificates to landowners to run small five pitch touring sites, for the exclusive use of our members across the UK and Northern Ireland. This is because we are an exempted organisation under both The Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 and the Caravans Act (Northern Ireland) 1963.

 

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Just now, DerbyClubman said:

 

 

 

David - you will find Moorgate and Jaydug are correct. They are only available to club members and limited to 5 vans as shown below

 

Copied below from the Camping Club

https://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/UKCS/smallsites/setting-up-a-certificated-site/

 

  Quote

We hold special exemptions from Natural England to establish small caravan and camping sites for our members, meaning that you won’t need planning permission or a site licence from your Local Authority.

 

Copied below from the Caravan Club

https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/setting-up-a-certificated-location/

 

  Quote

At the Club, we have the ability to issue CL certificates to landowners to run small five pitch touring sites, for the exclusive use of our members across the UK and Northern Ireland. This is because we are an exempted organisation under both The Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 and the Caravans Act (Northern Ireland) 1963.

 

 

I suspect David's experience is similar to mine.  Most of the CLs I have visited are by no means businesses in that sense,  Retirees wanting friendship and pin money; one I know only did it so he could persuade his wife he needed a ride on mower.

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11 minutes ago, SamD said:

 

I suspect David's experience is similar to mine.  Most of the CLs I have visited are by no means businesses in that sense,  Retirees wanting friendship and pin money; one I know only did it so he could persuade his wife he needed a ride on mower.

 

Same experience here, or someone finding a use for a bit of land that generates a bit of pocket money.  We used to love them but a growing child found them "boring" but I suspect we'll go back to them when our daughter does her own thing.


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12 minutes ago, SamD said:

 

I suspect David's experience is similar to mine.  Most of the CLs I have visited are by no means businesses in that sense,  Retirees wanting friendship and pin money; one I know only did it so he could persuade his wife he needed a ride on mower.

Glad someone understood me. :-)

A sort of traditional one was the farmers wife running a CL on a bit of land next to farmhouse as a sort of extra money for extras for the household etc.  certainly not for a living.

I would think many go over the 5 limit and thus put their CL licence at risk, have seen it often but not reported it to the club as site was always larger than 5 and safe distances. If someone was to report then they would be on closure list.  


Regards, David
Ford Kuga ST line 2ltr. Diesel 2017,  Bailey Pursuit 11 400/2 2018, Emove em303 motor mover, Hyundai 1000i Generator.

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1 hour ago, Jaydug said:

 

Without registering with either Caravan Club or C&CC a householder with a piece of suitable ground couldn't get around the planning laws.   They need one of the clubs because of their exemption certificates.


There are plenty of other organisations that can operate the system to run 5 caravan sites!

I will try and find the list!


2019 Bailey Platinum (640) Phoenix from Chipping Sodbury caravans, towed by our  2017 my Discovery Sport!

 

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1 hour ago, PR1 said:


There are plenty of other organisations that can operate the system to run 5 caravan sites!

I will try and find the list!

Is this what you are after.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/743721/caravan-exemptions.pdf


Regards, David
Ford Kuga ST line 2ltr. Diesel 2017,  Bailey Pursuit 11 400/2 2018, Emove em303 motor mover, Hyundai 1000i Generator.

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An interesting (and very long list !!)

 

As far as I can tell Section 5 is the exemption for CS and CL where it specifies the maximum of 5 vans 

 

Most of the organisations are exempted from Section 4 which seems to cover Temporary Holiday sites and/or Section 6 which covers a rally of no more than 5 days.

 

I suppose the difference with Section 5 is that the Club(s) are 'delegating' control to the land owner, but with 4 and 6 there will be a designated representative of the organisation on site.

 

Isn't life complicated . . . . . . . 

 

If you want to be confused even more, have a look at the Act here

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/8-9/62

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I do not know situation in Scotland and Northern Ireland but Wales now does its own Exemption Certificate.


Regards, David
Ford Kuga ST line 2ltr. Diesel 2017,  Bailey Pursuit 11 400/2 2018, Emove em303 motor mover, Hyundai 1000i Generator.

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3 hours ago, David 38 said:

Many thanks! I knew the list was quite extensive!


2019 Bailey Platinum (640) Phoenix from Chipping Sodbury caravans, towed by our  2017 my Discovery Sport!

 

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My thoughts were that the current forced closures were not responsible as it seems that most CLs are not a main business. Indeed if the site is closed there are not too many associated costs as most are run by their owners, so no furloughed staff, no extra electricity bills or running costs, apart from cutting the grass.

 

I can understand a large commercial campsite going out of business as they will have a huge'fixed'  cost and no income to pay the bills.

 

Perhaps for some it is the final straw if they were thinking of giving it up.

 

It is a shame as we love these small sites.

 

BH

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