Avondale eagle electrics

[Mikefrew]

Bought a 2004 eagle last week which I know needed a little work, didn't realise how much though. There is no battery connected at the moment and now I have seen some of the wiring I know why.

Connected hook up lead today to test the electrics only lights that work are 2 wall lights at the front, sockets and space heater work too, but as soon as I switch fridge to mains it trips main fuse, and also water panel does not do anything and water pump not working. Also charger seems to be shot as one of the terminals has corroded off. 

So my questions are, do all other lights only work with battery connected and where can I get a charger from? This is a pic of the top of the charger

 

[WispMan]

Generally in caravans two lights at the front work off mains 240V. As yours do. 

All other lights and water pump and elec control circuit for the fridge need 12V DC from the battery or charger. So you may need a battery and replacement charger. 

You can try a simple old car battery to test it all. 

[Mikefrew]

Battery is not a problem as will be ordering one anyway but as can be seen on the pic, one of the terminals on the charger has corroded off

[Paul1957]

We had one of those Zig-7 chargers on a 2000 year Elddis caravan and after 10 years it stopped working. A different make replacement from a caravan dealer fit in the same place with no bother.

[Mikefrew]

I’m guessing that any charger would connect pretty much the same way, pos and neg to battery and pos and neg to van, using the same 4 connectors.

[Silversurf]

42 minutes ago, Mikefrew said:

Battery is not a problem as will be ordering one anyway but as can be seen on the pic, one of the terminals on the charger has corroded off

 

If the terminal has corroded, that doesn't bode well for the rest of the charger which will be  16 years old any way and there are many modern, more efficient chargers now which would replace it,

 

Wiring,:

The thick white is obviously the 247v AC in

The thick red/black will be to the battery.

The broken  black/brown will more than likely the 12v DC pos to the fusebox / control unit ( black based wires in a caravan are usually pos DC ).

The white / brown will be more than likely be the  12 DC neg to the fusebox / control unit ( white based wires in a caravan are usually neg  DC ).

 

I'm purposely saying  'more than likely ' to emphasise that in older caravans, wiring isn't what  it should be so always check, though in this case it looks correct.

 

You can see that changing to a new unit will be a relative simple task, bearing in mind that you are best going for one that is a battery charger but will also supply the max. 12v DC load without a battery connected, most require a reasonable area to supply sufficient cooling and some have extra outputs, but you may not want to use them, for such as a remote tell tale LED.

 

Many on CT have simply fitted such as a good quality smart battery such as a Ctek.

 

I think others will be along with further advice and what they did.

 

[Jaydug]

That Zig unit and wiring is in an appalling condition.  I have an identical one on my Avondale which at 20 years old, works perfectly.   Looking at the picture, I wonder if some corrosive fluid hasn't been spilt.  

[Silversurf]

35 minutes ago, Jaydug said:

That Zig unit and wiring is in an appalling condition.  I have an identical one on my Avondale which at 20 years old, works perfectly.   Looking at the picture, I wonder if some corrosive fluid hasn't been spilt.  

 

I agree J and your post prompted me to have a look at a blown up photo.

 

The corrosion is very serious and is visible on the other terminals.

 

But what is disconcerting, to me anyway after blowing it up, is that what I thought as dust in the photo in the OP's post appears to be a brown residue which can be seen in inside the charger, on the wires as high as the mains in wire, has been wiped off the top of the charger and the rear of the hook up box ? / battery box ? where you can see the path of a cleaning cloth.

 

Added to this, on the top of the charger where the two attachment screw up stands are at the 90 degree angle, the deposit appears to be too thick for simply a spillage from the seating area or dust, and this, with the general spread of the deposit in the whole area in the photo leads me to wonder if it has been flooded in the past, the brown deposit being mud. ?

 

I hope Mikefrew comes back to the thread, it would be interesting to know if there are signs of this brown deposit in any other under seating storage areas, storage lockers, etc. it looks like the carpet may have been removed / replaced. ?

[WispMan]

I agree with SS that the appearance may point to having been in a flood. In which case an awful lot may need to be checked, besides the electrics.

[Jaydug]

37 minutes ago, Silversurf said:

 

, with the general spread of the deposit in the whole area in the photo leads me to wonder if it has been flooded in the past, the brown deposit being mud.

 

 

I think you're right.   The van has maybe stood for a while in flooded conditions.

 

 

You beat me to it, Graham.   No doubt the floor will be de-laminated as well.

It would be interesting to look under the Thetford toilet to see if the same deposits are lying there.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Jaydug

[WispMan]

And a 2004 vintage is fairly old so may not have had any insurance., as insurance would have replaced that ZIG unit. 

We often wonder on this forum what happens to these flooded vans and it looks as though this one may have been sold on AS SEEN leaving Mike to discover the hidden problems.

[Stevan]

The brown deposit does indeed look like a thin layer of mud left behind by flooding, but I wonder how the carpet visible seem to have remained relatively clean immediately adjacent to the deposits!

 

It would be interesting to see how much other damage there is.

 

 

Edited May 23, 2020 by Stevan

[Silversurf]

4 minutes ago, Stevan said:

The brown deposit does indeed look like a thin layer of mud left behind by flooding, but I wonder how the carpet visible seem to have remained relatively clean immediately adjacent to the deposits!

 

It would be interesting to see how much other damage there is.

 

 

 

There could be the possibility that initially, if we presume a flood, the van floor, carpeted ?  would have been quickly wet vac'd using an industrial unit  to reduce ongoing damage, and make carpet removal easier, leaving the top relatively clean looking, the next step being to remove all visible carpeting to get rid of the water under the carpet and check for damage.

 

The corrosion on the terminals is interesting it its intensity, something I wouldn't expect if from fresh water flood to drying out was a shortish period, they look like old external van connectors and that happens over years not months,  but if it was salt water or brackish water ?

 

As you say S, interesting, a bit like solving a crime.

 

 

 

 

[Jaydug]

1 hour ago, WispMan said:

And a 2004 vintage is fairly old so may not have had any insurance., as insurance would have replaced that ZIG unit.

 

Or maybe it was insured, then flooded and consequently written off.   Maybe should not have found its way back into the market.

[Mikefrew]

Got me a bit worried now, have removed the charger and taken a couple more pics, dont know how well it shows but corrosion looks like on to and not inside at the bottom 

And another

One more

And one with cassette removed

[Jaydug]

Cant help but think it's been stood in a flooded area for a while.   How does it look Mike in the space below the cooker unit.   Behind the drop down glass door.

[Silversurf]

13 minutes ago, Mikefrew said:

Got me a bit worried now, have removed the charger and taken a couple more pics, dont know how well it shows but corrosion looks like on to and not inside at the bottom 

And another

One more

And one with cassette removed

 

Any ideas what the ' brown ' deposits  ( though they look lighter in these photos ) are in your original photo  and is there anything similar  in the sink cupboards and under other seats ? 

 

Also in the original photo at the bottom of the charger on the floor ( Green ? ) there is what looks like corroded copper ?

 

Looking the 1st photo in this set, you can see green corrosion further down at what is the back of the charger, but nothing obvious at the front of the charger !

 

Do the deposits, on the charger and the white back wall wipe off with your finger or are they bonded like paint ?

[Joeblogs]

There is a couple of like for like Zig x70 for sale on eBay at the moment.

 

[Mikefrew]

There is no other brown under seats or cupboards, just plenty of the green corrosion, it is also on the battery connections and plugs behind the water control panel, but no signs of water ingress that I can see. It won’t wipe off with a cloth but can be scraped with a fingernail

Looking at the charger corrosion only seems to be on the spade connectors with very little inside the unit

[Silversurf]

2 minutes ago, Mikefrew said:

There is no other brown under seats or cupboards, just plenty of the green corrosion, it is also on the battery connections and plugs behind the water control panel, but no signs of water ingress that I can see. It won’t wipe off with a cloth but can be scraped with a fingernail

 

At least with there being no other signs of the ' brown ' anywhere else and it not wiping off easily, the flooded idea could be put to one side for the time being.

 

It's never pleasant finding these things, but best to find them before they make their selves known when on holiday and it appears to have spurred you on, as it would me, to checking and correcting in other places.

 

On older vans that get little use, that may have been parked up in a damp location, field with long grass, may get damp enough to  cause corrosion on various metals but not enough to cause mildew on upholstery.

 

Best thing is you are learning and with the wealth of info and experience on CT, there is always someone to help solve a problem, the knowledge gained will also help when you go for another van or attend to other matters on this one, nothing lost.

 

So get your knee pads, good torch, notebook and pencil out and explore all the nooks and crannies of the van, half the £1 coins you find are mine. ?

 

My first van was bought when going to buy another new tent, a little 2 berth sat looking at us, wife and two toddlers, the same price as a tent, glass windows, no 240 v, no 12 v , no toilet, no shower, water via a foot pump on the floor, 2 burner hob, no heating and 4 gas lights, so just like a tent with a hard top. ?

 

I checked it as if it was a car, bodywork OK, chassis OK appeared to be made of girders, kicked the tyres OK, all the road lights worked OK, seats and trim clean and comfy OK, all perfect.

 

Brought it home, wife and kids went shopping I started to have a good look round, ohh that ceiling looks a bit damp

you don't see or look for that in a car. ?

 

When they got back the whole of the ceiling was down and on the floor outside along with a pile of cotton wool timber, the roof supported with brushes, mops, anything, luckily it was the end of the season so 5 months to sort it and a good excuse to do a few modifications, it served us well for a few years, I didn't make the same mistake with the next one, the knowledge gained far outweighed the cost of the old caravan and materials.

 

Keep us informed Mike, if caravans could tell stories, what we see in your photos could be put down to little Emily tipping the contents of her bucket of sand, sea water, shells, sand hoppers, shrimps, seaweed, driftwood, down the back of the sofa, or grandads secret stash of home brew having a secondary fermentation.....................don't ask,??

 

Note to self, you must publish your memoirs.

 

 

 

 

 

[DACS]

The corrosion on the terminals is typical of a DC circuit that has been flooded while it has power.  Electrolytic corrosion can happen quite quickly.  We live in an area which occasionally floods and have seen the damage.  

[Mikefrew]

Well charger and leisure battery ordered, get those fitted and see how it goes. Also going to replace all spade connectors and strip wires back to clean copper. Would 44 core wire be enough to go from battery to charger? It’s what we use for split charge systems when fitting towbars

[Rodders53]

You can fuse the cable from the battery to suit/protect the cable you use... as close to the battery as possible, but not inside, the housing.

 

You'll need to determine the load(s) and hence current(s) required to work everything.  Then you can determine cable size(s) based on current and acceptable voltage drop to each item.   15 to 20 Amps is a common fuse used for battery feeds.

 

40/0.3 approx 3 sq mm is not really  large enough imho (volt drop reasons) for battery to PDU - even if only  a metre or two away.  {Not sure it's good enough for split charge use either - but that's another thing.}

 

https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/cable-sizing-selection.html might help?

 

[Jaydug]

20 hours ago, Mikefrew said:

There is no other brown under seats or cupboards,

Looking at the charger corrosion only seems to be on the spade connectors with very little inside the unit

 

How is the Truma room heater?   Does it still work both on electric and gas?

[Mikefrew]

34 minutes ago, Rodders53 said:

You can fuse the cable from the battery to suit/protect the cable you use... as close to the battery as possible, but not inside, the housing.

 

You'll need to determine the load(s) and hence current(s) required to work everything.  Then you can determine cable size(s) based on current and acceptable voltage drop to each item.   15 to 20 Amps is a common fuse used for battery feeds.

 

40/0.3 approx 3 sq mm is not really  large enough imho (volt drop reasons) for battery to PDU - even if only  a metre or two away.  {Not sure it's good enough for split charge use either - but that's another thing.}

 

https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/cable-sizing-selection.html might help?

 

Thanks for that, will get some bigger gauge.

22 minutes ago, Jaydug said:

 

How is the Truma room heater?   Does it still work both on electric and gas?

Works on electric but got no gas to test at the moment