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scallywag69

Towing vehicle ability

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Hi, Just about to become a Caravanner and have my eye on a Lunar Lexon 575 EB 09. My Ford Focus Estate 1.6 Petrol non turbo has the following permissable weights inside the Door....GVW..1825kg and GTW..3025kg...does anyone have any idea on how the Car is going to deal with this Van, we will not be going very far or up and down too many hills so would appreciate any advice please. Thanks.

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What is the MTPLM of the van?  The car is only rated for 1200kg towing

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I think those numbers give a tow limit of 1200kgs so what is the declared MTPLM of the caravan? 

And Welcome! 

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As far as I have been able to ascertain, the MIRO is already at the towing limit and the MTPLM well above that at 1420kg, so it would seem to be a no-go.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Lutz said:

As far as I have been able to ascertain, the MIRO is already at the towing limit and the MTPLM well above that at 1420kg, so it would seem to be a no-go.

Agree, I found the MIRO is 1199kg and MTPLM is 1420kg https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/caravans/buyers-guide/caravans/details/575-eb/3361

 

The MIRO does not include the battery so even if you did not put anything in this caravan it will weigh more than your car can tow. You need to be looking at a caravan with MTPLM of 1200 kg or change the car. If changing the car and you passed your driving test after 1997 and you have not passed a towing test, you are limited to the total of the car gross weight plus the caravan MTPLM being 3500kg.

Edited by Paul1957
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Thanks for your quick replies. The Van is a 09 Lunar Lexon 575 EB with a weight of 1199kg...on the limit i guess!!

Have to look for a different Van i suppose, thanks again for all your help.

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2 minutes ago, scallywag69 said:

Thanks for your quick replies. The Van is a 09 Lunar Lexon 575 EB with a weight of 1199kg...on the limit i guess!!

Have to look for a different Van i suppose, thanks again for all your help.

 

The weight that you quote is the unladen weight, so you wouldn't be able to put anything into it if you wanted to tow it.

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The 575 EB is almost identical to our Solaris.  Our Miro is 1210kg and MTPLM is 1450. 

You'll be struggling to tow it with anything less than a 1.8+

Looks like you going to need a bigger car....

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When looking at caravans look at the plated MTPLM and not the MIRO.

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15 minutes ago, scallywag69 said:

The Van is a 09 Lunar Lexon 575 EB with a weight of 1199kg...on the limit i guess!!

Your looking at the MIRO   You need to look at the MTPLM. 

Legally, it’s the combined plated maximum weights that matter, the actual weight is irrelevant, unless your overload!! 

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19 minutes ago, scallywag69 said:

Hi, Just about to become a Caravanner and have my eye on a Lunar Lexon 575 EB 09. My Ford Focus Estate 1.6 Petrol non turbo has the following permissable weights inside the Door....GVW..1825kg and GTW..3025kg...does anyone have any idea on how the Car is going to deal with this Van, we will not be going very far or up and down too many hills so would appreciate any advice please. Thanks.

Dunno how old your Focus is but we had a 2 litre petrol Focus and towed 1200kg with it and TBH is was hard work with a lot of gear changing to keep it moving.  It also needed plenty of space at roundabouts & junctions to make sure you had enough time to complete the manouver.

 

We swapped it for a 2 litre diesel C-Max and the difference was chalk and cheese. We upgraded to a 1420kg van and still had no problems with the 2 litre diesel.

 

We also had a 1.6 Focus for some time and it was OK solo but I doubt it would have pulled the skin off a rice pudding. Check your weights very carefully especially as a lot of cars nowadays are quite high geared so you could end up never getting into top gear if you've got a van on the back.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Lost in the wilderness said:

Your looking at the MIRO   You need to look at the MTPLM. 

Legally, it’s the combined plated maximum weights that matter, the actual weight is irrelevant, unless your overload!! 

 

No, except for driving licence issues, it is the actual weights that count. A car with a max towload of 1200kg could tow a 3 tonne trailer so long as it isn't loaded so as to exceed the plated gross train weight.

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35 minutes ago, Lutz said:

 

No, except for driving licence issues, it is the actual weights that count. A car with a max towload of 1200kg could tow a 3 tonne trailer so long as it isn't loaded so as to exceed the plated gross train weight.

In the UK they would look at the maximum weights and if the trailer has a MTPLM of 3000kg it will exceed the GMW of the vehicle.  I do know of one person who got prosecuted for this. 

Most police would turn a blind eye if the trailer is empty, but you would probably still be breaking the law or legislation concerning trailer weight.

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36 minutes ago, Lutz said:

 

No, except for driving licence issues, it is the actual weights that count. A car with a max towload of 1200kg could tow a 3 tonne trailer so long as it isn't loaded so as to exceed the plated gross train weight.

 

Without taking the outfit to a weigh bridge how would the police or VOSA know what either weighed?

They will only look at the plates on the car and caravan, so it is not the actual weight that counts it is what is on the plates.

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12 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

In the UK they would look at the maximum weights and if the trailer has a MTPLM of 3000kg it will exceed the GMW of the vehicle.  I do know of one person who got prosecuted for this. 

Most police would turn a blind eye if the trailer is empty, but you would probably still be breaking the law or legislation concerning trailer weight.

 

11 minutes ago, Grandpa Steve said:

 

Without taking the outfit to a weigh bridge how would the police or VOSA know what either weighed?

They will only look at the plates on the car and caravan, so it is not the actual weight that counts it is what is on the plates.

 

It IS the actual weight that counts (leaving aside possible driving licence restrictions). The police can't bend the rules. If someone was prosecuted without exceeding the actual gross train weight limit, he would have every reason to successfully contest the case.

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19 minutes ago, Lutz said:

 

 

It IS the actual weight that counts (leaving aside possible driving licence restrictions). The police can't bend the rules. If someone was prosecuted without exceeding the actual gross train weight limit, he would have every reason to successfully contest the case.

The police are NOT bending the rules.  They are using the mandatory and legal plat  son the car and the trailer.   You are changing the legislation to suit your posts.  :)

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22 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

The police are NOT bending the rules.  They are using the mandatory and legal plat  son the car and the trailer.   You are changing the legislation to suit your posts.  :)

 

I'm not changing any legislation. I am sticking by the wording of it. The statutory plates state what the actual weight limits are.

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30 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

The police are NOT bending the rules.  They are using the mandatory and legal plat  son the car and the trailer.   You are changing the legislation to suit your posts.  :)

 

Lutz is correct - in the UK, we can't be prosecuted for overloading based solely on the ratings plates - that's why VOSA/DVSA sets up spot checks with weight measures ready for action - then if the actual weights exceeds the ratings plates, an offence has occurred. It's "usually" quite legal to tow an empty goods trailer.

 

The B-only licence can and will be enforced simply by checking the ratings plates and adding the figures together as that is a specific offence.

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There are two sets of totally separate legislation here.

 

 First up is the one concerned with the driver and his driving licence. With Category B (only) licence you are restricted to a car and trailer whose combined plated weights (also called MAM or gross vehicle weight) cannot exceed 3500kg. It matters not a jot if the actual weights are below that figure it’s the plated weights that are looked at.

 

Secondly there is legislation that applies to the vehicle, and is concerned solely the combinations actual weight(s) they must not exceed any of the weights shown on the vehicle plates, be that gross, or axle weights.

 

If you have just a cat B licence You cannot tow an unladened trailer if it’s permitted maximum plated weight, when added to the max permitted weight of the towing vehicle exceed the magic 3500kg limit. It matters not if the combined actual weight is say 3000kg it’s the plated weights that are added together in respect of driving licence regs.

 

If you don’t have the correct licence then you are also uninsured. Check the wording on your ins cert!

“Holds or has held, and is not disqualified from holding, a licence to drive that class of vehicle” Trust me, it will be there somewhere! 

 

Andy

 

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Will the scallywag OP come back and be totally confused?

I hope not.

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20 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

There are two sets of totally separate legislation here.

 

 First up is the one concerned with the driver and his driving licence. With Category B (only) licence you are restricted to a car and trailer whose combined plated weights (also called MAM or gross vehicle weight) cannot exceed 3500kg. It matters not a jot if the actual weights are below that figure it’s the plated weights that are looked at.

 

Secondly there is legislation that applies to the vehicle, and is concerned solely the combinations actual weight(s) they must not exceed any of the weights shown on the vehicle plates, be that gross, or axle weights.

 

If you have just a cat B licence You cannot tow an unladened trailer if it’s permitted maximum plated weight, when added to the max permitted weight of the towing vehicle exceed the magic 3500kg limit. It matters not if the combined actual weight is say 3000kg it’s the plated weights that are added together in respect of driving licence regs.

 

If you don’t have the correct licence then you are also uninsured. Check the wording on your ins cert!

“Holds or has held, and is not disqualified from holding, a licence to drive that class of vehicle” Trust me, it will be there somewhere! 

 

Andy

 

 

That's right. I did expressly exclude conditions that apply to driving licence entitlement in my replies.

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Well, who,d have thought i,d open up such a can of worms!!! sorry, to be honest i,m not at all surprised OR any the wiser, this issue really shouldn't be that complicated...i have Grandfathers rights to drive anything up to and inc 7.5t as i passed my test back in 1968...my issue wasn't the legality with breaching the 3.5t limit, it was what would be the heaviest caravan my 06 focus would be legal and comfortable towing, i realise that the car is not the best for pulling loads ie, 2 dogs and a few suitcases is quite a mission when going up a slight hil,hence my trying to get a definitive answer from people on here, whilst i appreciate everyones replies it,s pretty obvious that it,s quite a contentious subject with everyone having their own opinions on this issue, because we only intend to get it delivered from the seller to a site because we intend to stay on site for the max 28 days, move to another site for another 28 days as we are homeless at the moment due to househunting so what we might do is when we need it moving between sites just find someone with a 4 wd or suitable towing car to move it for us, anyone got any suggestions for anyone that would fit that bill, we,re in Essex. Thanks all again.

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I think Scalleywag has responded brilliantly to all the posts made. Well done Sir,

Now, who will be the first to list all the issues of moving on every 28 days and getting someone else to tow the van when doing so ? 😀😀

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I would suggest you hang on until you get set up on your first site. Then make a few friends with the others on site. I am sure someone would be happy to assist you to move a few miles. If not try a post in Facebook etc, or even enquire with the site warden who will probably know someone local to help. Any caravan Dealer should be able to assist you, but not of course for free.

 

Good luck with house hunting, at least it’s very much a buyers market now.

 

And

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Posted (edited)

Scallywag, putting the law about all the different and confusing towing weights to one side..

 

Find the weight of your car, and find the weight of your caravan.

Caravans have a weight when it's empty, and a maximum weight it is allowed to be loaded to (MTPLM)

Typically a caravan weighing around 1200kg will have a maximum weight (MTPLM) of around 1400kg, meaning you can load it with 200kg of stuff (150kg of the wifes unnecessary tatt, and 50kg of your important and vital essentials).

 

Then, the usual advice is for the maximum loaded weight (MTPLM) of your caravan to not be any higher than 80% of the weight of your car, but this is just advisory.

So if a car weighs say 1700kg then it can tow a loaded up caravan no heavier than 80% of the weight of the car, in this case being 1360kg. But with the 80% rule just being advisory, you can go higher, even up to 100% etc.

You really don't want the caravan being heavier than the car, as the whole outfit can become unstable and increase the chance of your caravan flipping the car over.

Best to have the car heavier than the caravan, and if you can stick to the 80% rue then you're towing as responsibly as you can.

Edited by LeadFarmer

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