New Caravan on Order - A conundrum.

[Bernard in Tring]

As I write the last two weeks in April should have resulted in Coachman beginning the build of a new VIP 565 with delivery to the dealer in early May. Both now closed for business. Yes I know and respect that in the overall situation this is insignificant in the grand scheme of things as they presently stand and I don't want to upset anyone or provoke any nasty comments about selfishness or the like, but just wondering what others views are in respect of this uncertain future. I have the utmost admiration for the NHS staff and those facing this daily danger, our daughter is involved in adult care, and it is certainly not something I could do; I'm apprehensive enough as it is.

Yes, despite being in mid-seventies still wish to caravan, but from a practical point of view wonder what the way forward with this project is. I have a 2014 Coachman getting older by the day, I have, supposedly, a new caravan 'on order' which too is getting its value reduced by the ever decreasing period of caravan change of model year on 1st September. Do I want a new caravan in August - yes optimist that I am - which will become one year older, depreciate in value within two to three weeks. I would not be happy. Do I pull out and loose my deposit? Lot of money involved. Will the manufacturers scrape the change over year on a one off basis and produce their  2020 models until 31st August, 2021, or will prospective customers be given an option on any new 2021 models in the pipe line. Bearing in mind that they are not built yet.

 

It is a conundrum and any comment or ideas would be appreciated.

 

PS: For any 'flag flyers' Lifes a Breeze web-site have recently launch a 'Rainbow - Thank you NHS' flag with profits going to the NHS. I've no connection with the firm whatsoever but think its worth supporting, irrespective of what you think about flags flying on site!

 

Just all stay safe.

 

Bernard In Tring

[Mr Plodd]

Well under the circumstances I would be inclined to do one of two things (once it becomes possible to Talk to your dealer.)

 

1. Ask what sort of discount is being offered on what you have ordered.

2. See if you could “transfer” your deposit to a newer model. 

 

In regards to No.2 is there a “newer” model planned for September? If not then the “age” of a caravan is usually taken from the date it is delivered to its first purchaser not from the date of ordering, so if you take delivery in September it will be a 2020 caravan even though it may be classed as a 2021 model. However when it comes to trade in time then its date of purchase that is used to determine its value it, so I don’t think you are likely to lose out in the long term.

 

Andy 

[Black Grouse]

Those of us over 70 may be required to stay at home long after the working age population is back at work - at worst until a vaccine is found, tested and generally available so possibly 18 months - I'd look at ways of deferring the purchase for a year or two.

[joanie]

  If you pull out you not only lose the deposit , the exchange value of your present van goes down when you next put it in for an exchange.  BG above says about the lock down going on a bit longer for the older folk, but I think that will only be for the extremely vulnerable.    I agree with Mr. P about having a Talk with the dealer, I don't expect he wants to lose a sale, perhaps you can come to a compromise.  

[Guest]

My Bailey Estoril should have been delivered around about now but I'm not getting all wound up about it.

 

I'm only 73 (so perhaps a bit younger than you) but I can't really see that either mine nor your age really makes a lot of difference.  IMO the world wont actually stop rotating if I don't get it for another couple of months. 

 

Even if I don't get it at all I'll be disappointed but I'm sure the dealers and Baileys have a lot more to worry about than my deposit which if it all goes to pot should be covered by the Credit Card. I've still got my existing van so I'm not particularly worried.

 

As far as I'm concerned it a case of hoping for the best, planning for the worst but not getting upset, annoyed or worried until the time comes.

 

I'd personally be more concerned about getting the lurgy and falling off the twig because of it rather than whether my new caravan was going to be a 2020 or 2021 model. Just my opinion you understand

[Stevan]

At this point in the year the manufacturers would normally be finalising the designs for the 2021 vans so that they could change over production during the August break ready for an October launch.

Quite how this will work this year is just one of many unknowns and it may be that they will run the 2020 designs through to the 2021 model year.

I think your priority should be to open a dialogue with the dealer and manufacturer as soon as you are able and try to reschedule your purchase. My guess is that they will be only too happy to oblige to let them get on with customers in a hurry.

[CommanderDave]

31 minutes ago, Stevan said:

At this point in the year the manufacturers would normally be finalising the designs for the 2021 vans so that they could change over production during the August break ready for an October launch.

Quite how this will work this year is just one of many unknowns and it may be that they will run the 2020 designs through to the 2021 model year.

I think your priority should be to open a dialogue with the dealer and manufacturer as soon as you are able and try to reschedule your purchase. My guess is that they will be only too happy to oblige to let them get on with customers in a hurry.

 

I would think they will run over to the next year as said because changes in design and new upholstery materials and new show models would be built ready for the new shows in a few months if not before and this looks like not much will move .

 

 

I tried my dealer a couple of nights ago I still have a warranty myself on my MH and the site said they was closed due to virus but had a chat online bubble . You could try a see if your dealer has any information that way .

 

 

It is difficult times and situations with everything on hold and I know a few people that have brand new Motorhomes sitting after delivery and collection that they have not used .

Edited April 20, 2020 by CommanderDave

[Bernard in Tring]

Many thanks for the responses; all appreciated. Yes, an approach to the dealer is the first approach and I have no knowledge of any plans for 2021. But I do know from previous visits to The Lawns, that revised 'next years' models are launch; with the exception of Bailey who don't run model dependent years. Safer with hindsight to follow the car industry and change a model completely!

 

Main consideration is not wishing to succumb to this dreadful, dreadful disease but its the balance with increased years of age which is a factor and the ability of physically being able to 'carry-on'. I cannot be the only one over the three score years and ten plus, who struggles to get up if you get down. It strikes most that I know. Spirit is willing but the flesh is weak, I think is the expression.

 

However on to brighter things, I'm certainly not being pessimistic about any of this, so to dispel any suggestions, since I made this post we have booked for holidays in 2021 and the rest of ours after the 30th June still stand. Plus renewed both the Caravan Club and Camping Club memberships.

 

Bernard in Tring

 

 

[David 38]

With the Talk of many companies and shops going under and fresh in my mind my main dealer went under in February just hope your dealer and maybe Coachman do open again.

Sorry to be gloomy.

Edited April 20, 2020 by David 38
spelling

[daveat92]

As far as I can see, any differences between one year's model and the next are entirely cosmetic i.e. changes in decals.

 

However, if it's a bit more than that, the price will go up, and the spec may not be to your liking. Are you happy about both of those?

 

Also, would you rather have a van on which the guys who build it have 12 month's experience of how to put it all together, or one where the guys in the factory are still trying to work out how to put it all together, but no time to put it correct it when it's not right?

Edited April 20, 2020 by daveat92

[James Donald]

I'd be really happy if I could get a new Caravan! It will be the one you must have liked to have ordered it in the first place ? The 2021 may have things you won't like ?  Just to worry about a year thing is not a big deal I don't think? I have to put up with a ( as your put it dated ) 2014 model which we are quite happy with !  It is all out of our hands. Just be happy to be alive and get it !! Many won't be .

[Bernard in Tring]

James, we are happy with our 2014 van, its a 520/4 side dinette. No derogatory comments on the age of the van but the decision to change was based on trying to make things easier and continue caravanning, avoiding the need to make up the two front settees into beds each night. Reversing the process in the morning. Nothing wrong with the design concept of the 2014 and would be keeping if it were not for trying to make like easier!

 

Bernard in Tring

[Wildwood]

The first thing you need to look at is the contract. If the contract has no delivery date specified, then it is not a an essential part of the contract. If you alter anything you could be regarded as in breach of the contract and lose your deposit, although that is unlikely.

If the dealer alters anything he would be in a similar position and it would let you out and the deal would be null and void letting you walk away. A bit of negotiation might work but you cannot easily cancel or demand a change without risking the deposit.

As the caravan was due to be delivered in May I would not be surprised if it is in fact built. Having bought them from other makes I have seen quite a delay between them being completed and delivered. This may not be the case with yours but it might be.

I am not sure if the makers will have a lot of cancelations due to the current economic problems, with people who had committed finding their finances will not now cover the cost of a new caravan so may be the caravan will arrive earlier than you might think.

Assuming they do bring out new models for next year, the current years build will have to end soon so that they can make the necessary changes to the production line. What will happen with unfulfilled orders I do not know.

All in all it is difficult to predict what will happen, but I do not see the dealer trying to reduce the trade in on your caravan. They will be desperate to sell as many caravans as they can as quickly as possible for cash flow reasons, if nothing else so will be keen to complete the deal with anyone still wanting to buy.

A month or so delay in delivery should not seriously affect the resale value at a later date though so I would not worry about it.

If they stop the 2020 production and move to the 2021 model you might even get one of those, but do not count on it.

[David 38]

Good points Wildwood but bear in mind there will be others with delivery dates before the OP and I would they will supply those first.

[Lord Sward]

Ultimately its a frustrated contract, so I would assume you will be able to renegotiate with the dealer? Bare in mind you existing 'van will continue to depreciate and will also become a MY older.

 

I can fully understand your concerns about buying what may very likely become an obsolete model in a matter of weeks from taking delivery. However, I will assume Model Years will now run until until the existing inventory is exhausted before switching to the next model year, rather than the usual change-over date?

 

The key to the arrangement will be communication and compromise. If the next MY is barely different, is it worth waiting? Life is brutally short as we are seeing played out daily. As we tumble into a Global recession, will your existing 'van be worth anything near what it was valued at when you ordered this new 'van? Will the residual difference between a 20MY and a 21MY be worth worrying about in 6 years time? 

 

Only you can decide as only you know the deal you struck when you ordered. Let me know what you decide.

 

 

[daveat92]

I detect a feeling that you somehow see this as an "investment".

It's not, it's a purchase and any "value" is purely on paper until you come to sell it.

Talk of an "obsolete" model is ridiculous. It's the same van you set your heart on when you agreed to buy it. If you can't accept that, in the near future, it will no longer be the "latest" model, you will have to buy a new van every year. That will get very expensive.

In the meantime, just collect, use and enjoy it, and worry about what it may, or may not, be worth when you come to dispose of it, whenever that is.

 

[Lord Sward]

48 minutes ago, daveat92 said:

 

Talk of an "obsolete" model is ridiculous.

 

 

But it will be obsolete the minute the next MY appears. No two ways about this. Call built-in obsolesce if to makes you feel better? Call it a marketing gimmick? But the minute you can no longer buy an identical replacement brand new from the factory, the current model is rendered obsolete. 

Edited April 21, 2020 by Lord Sward

[Silversurf]

There  are also the logistics to think of when manufacturing can actually start, will the old staff return, will parts, materials and equipment be still available, has the new tooling been made, indeed will some of the suppliers, still exist ?

 

Then, which takes precedence , building new vans, or attending to the ever increasing delayed servicing and warranty work, which will upset existing owners, more so with the potential of having to travel excessive distances to a dealer that is still trading and willing to do warranty work.

 

An upset customer can very easily and often does, become a lost future customer.

 

Quite a conundrum and I can see much head scratching and hand wringing.

 

Yes, a great  deal of their difficulties this year, but not all, stem from CoVid  but Joe Public will be as fickle and have short memories as ever, blaming the manufacturer/ dealer, forgetting the CoVid affect.

 

 

 

 

 

[DerbyClubman]

On 20/04/2020 at 17:01, Bernard in Tring said:

 new VIP 565 with delivery to the dealer in early May. Both now closed for business. 

 

 

Bernard - I am in exactly the same situation - in fact my dealer said that as the schedule they had been sent indicated 'early May' for the VIP 565, it could in fact be later. Like you we have a substantial deposit at stake and my main concern is the continuing fall in the trade in value as Lunar will only warranty more recent models - we have already paid out about £1000 to have damp issues sorted and I now wonder if that was also wasted money but at that time we didn't plan to change - and then we went to the NEC . . . . . . . . .! !

 

Mike

.

[Stevan]

All anyone can do under these circumstances is to start a dialogue at the earliest opportunity.

Dealers have already lost about four weeks worth of sales and it looks like several more to follow. Manufacturers are in the same boat with lost production, sales and a setback for the start of the 2021MY.

Everybody wants to get back to some form of normality and either get their hands on a new van or get some money flowing again.

Some customers will be cancelling because of lost income to pay for the new van and others will still be pushing for June/July delivery dates,  so everything will be up for renegotiation and I am sure that there will be bargains available for anyone willing to be flexible.

 

[Dobloseven]

A quick look on Coachman dealers websites showed several unsold new 2020 VIP 565s with discounts on list price. Probably doesn't help, but might put a slant on future values etc. 

[Mr Plodd]

A caravan that is manufactured in say August will NOT be obsolete in September. What it might be is slightly different to a “new” model that is introduced in Sept. 

 

Think of it terms of a car using my personal example.

 

A few years ago I was offered an “end of model” deal on a brand new car just prior to the launch of the next model. The price was £3000 LESS than the list price, I snapped it up. Three years later when I came to trade  it in no-one looked at what I had originally paid for it, they just looked at Glasses Guide and gave me what the currentvtrade in value was. Over three years I “lost” just £3500 off what the LIST price when I purchased it. So in effect, over the three years my new car cost me just £500.

 

In addition any caravan thus  purchased will still function 100% as a caravan. Look at how many 15 year old caravans there are still in use, they haven’t stopped ‘working” as a caravan just because the interior trim, or external graphics are different to a brand new one have they? 

 

You will “lose” the VAT on your new purchase the instant you drive it off the forecourt. 

 

Quit worrying about the future value of it and just concentrate on enjoying your NEW caravan as soon as, and for  as long as, you can. 

 

Andy

[Lord Sward]

3 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

A caravan that is manufactured in say August will NOT be obsolete in September. What it might be is slightly different to a “new” model that is introduced in Sept. 

 

Thats obsolete then? 

 

Obsolete according to my Collins dictionary is; 1) out of use or practice; not current, 2) out of date; unfashionable or outmoded. 

 

Even if its just a question of exterior graphics and interior upholstery or formica changes, the fact remains, the minute the next Model Year is there to be bought, the current model year is obsolete. 

 

The manufacturers all market obsolescence to encourage us to buy a new 'van under the bright lights of an exhibition hall. 

[Wildwood]

I am afraid it is not a frustrated contract unless the delivery date is a condition of the contract. If there is no specification of the date then at law the delivery date is not an essential condition of the contract. The delivery date can not be put back indefinitely but any reasonable date which would take into account the current crisis is the position.

[Bernard in Tring]

Once again I am appreciative of all the contributions and views which have been put forward. As the subject matter indicates, it is a conundrum; there is no one or easy answer, we are all in the unknown. I too appreciate that I am not the only one in this situation, whether it be a caravan, car, wedding or numerous other things that we have all planned for and become excited about. The 'disappointment' is not knowing when. I also accept that I am in a very fortunate position in being able to anticipate taking delivery of a new van. Thousands unemployed, numerous deaths, thousands upon thousands ill, many living in multi story flats/apartments with no access to outside space. Must be dreadful and whether we ever recover as a nation is very problematic to my mind. There must be some dire consequences down the line.

 

I'm certainly not worried and in the grand scheme of things all of this has no significance whatsoever and is very small fry. You only have to look at the daily figures of UK deaths to appreciate the enormity of the issue.  It certainly is hats off to the NHS staff and the numerous other workers who are going about their daily business in order to keep others of us safe, food supplied, rubbish collected, parcels and mail delivered. Without doubt irrespective of any inconvenience which we may be feeling through this loss of personal freedom, it is for the greater good. There has been much Talk in the medial about lifting a number of restrictions. From an individual point of view and at the moment so far as I can tell 'health' discounting any normal pills and potions taken, I would prefer to be safe than shortly down the line  -  sorry. The risk in my mind is too great.

 

I suppose one of my main frustrations is accepting the realisation of it all and not knowing. We are both past our three score year and ten plus, and this is a period, no matter how short or long it lasts, in our lives which we will never ever get back. Time is a precious commodity as we, I am sure, have now all come to appreciate is truer than it has ever been.

 

I do fully appreciate the difficulties of the various manufacturers, but one assumes that whilst they don't know what the future holds, they must be making contingency plans for a resumption of output. I think it would be helpful if perhaps the companies could issue their thoughts on what they have in mind when any restrictions are lifted, covering the short, intermediate and long term options that they have before them. Caveats of staff welfare and safety, could be given and comments on the supply of raw materials etc; just ideas, all subject to change but it might help lift the veil of not having any idea what the future may hold. Only an idea of course - those in charge must be doing something surely.

 

All of you just keep safe, lives cannot be replaced. and again thank you for the contributions made

 

Bernard in Tring