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bessacarr425

People ignoring the advice.

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He got-it in one. The world needs a global action plan supported by the well-off nations; I am hopeful this will happen when the dust settles. We may not be so lucky next time.

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9 hours ago, pepys1660 said:

Just to clarify that. 

This has been imposed in Paris only - not France.

thanks pepys 1660

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On 07/04/2020 at 09:53, logiclee said:

 

N95 is the US standard I believe which is equivalent to the EU standard FFP2.

 

For Covid the HSE are recommending FFP3 for health workers.

 

As the virus they are finding is atomising in the air I would say you would need a PP3 to be sure .

 

We  have 2 stage P2 and P3 3M masks .

 

Dave

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, Lutz said:

 

One doesn't need to be an expert to foresee that something like this could possibly happening. No, it's pure short term economics, i.e. deliberate withholding of funds from medical services, that has put some countries into the position that they are in at the moment.

I dont think you are correct - it's not the fact of witholding funds its more than likely that its the way the funds are utilised and prioritised that's more to the point.

 

Did we really need 20,000+ ventilators mouldering in a storeroom for twenty or so years just in case or a couple of million face masks doing the same and then allowing the press to have a field day because they had expired use by dates. 

Perhaps it would be better if someone sat in a storeroom and purchased another 10,000 facemasks a month and chucked away a corresponding  10,000 of them every month because they were  out of date. (actually it wouldn't surprise me at all if that's what really happens anyway)

 

Perhaps we should now keep Excel and the other "Nightingale" hospitals mothballed and on standby when this lot is over, just in case this kicks off again in say 5, 10, 20 years (you choose). Can we really afford the cost and resource because you cant just lock the doors and come back when its required.  You have to keep it maintained in in a suitable state to bring it back into service )and pay the rent of buy it off the owner)

 

The NHS and I'm sure that most health services (either in the UK or elsewhere) are geared up for major incidents like terrorist attacks, train crashers, major fires and even plane crashes because they can call upon the resources of adjacent organisations or even adjacent countries.

 

This is different and if some people could actually get their head around the fact that everyone in every town, county and country is after the same resource and expertise, whether it's people, PPE, ventilators or hospital beds then perhaps there'd be less rubbish spouted by the media and even some of the correspondents on this forum.

 

All these organisations have finite resources - how many spares of stuff do you keep at home just in case - probably a lightbulb or two but not a lot more I'll wager

 

 

Edited by matelodave
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In South Africa in the cities they have total lockdown and in addition anyone spreading false rumours about Covid-19 is also locked up and has to appear in front of a magistrate.  The UK should impose the same for false news and rumours.

 

 

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I have a small number of FFP2's which I bought last year for a slabbing job, overkill for slabbing I suppose, underkill for Covid 19, I hope not.

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16 hours ago, joanie said:

just read that France have stopped daytime exercising from 10 am to 7 pm.  It wouldn't surprise me if the UK didn't follow suit, although I think that the majority of people are doing as they're told.

And do people honestly believe such a restriction will do any good? It’s utterly futile and hopefully our Government won’t be so daft.  

14 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

In South Africa in the cities they have total lockdown and in addition anyone spreading false rumours about Covid-19 is also locked up and has to appear in front of a magistrate.  The UK should impose the same for false news and rumours.

 

 

I find it hard to understand how people think that might be proportional and acceptable in this country. 

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19 minutes ago, matelodave said:

All these organisations have finite resources

True, just that resources are more finite some countries than others.   This chart does not make for happy reading and yes I understand that definitions could vary from country to country but nether the less image.thumb.jpeg.c9cc75160542e530e2166e226161632e.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Lutz said:

 

One doesn't need to be an expert to foresee that something like this could possibly happening. No, it's pure short term economics, i.e. deliberate withholding of funds from medical services, that has put some countries into the position that they are in at the moment.

 

Correct, the government ran an exercise ' cygnus'  in 2016, and discovered we were woefully unprepared for a flu pandemic but failed to act on the findings.

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7 minutes ago, Fat Albert said:

And do people honestly believe such a restriction will do any good? It’s utterly futile and hopefully our Government won’t be so daft.  

I find it hard to understand how people think that might be proportional and acceptable in this country. 

 

If the public at large are sensible, adhere to the advice, think what they are doing there should be no need over here for the above measures, however the above measures may be needed if all the idiots who don't comply with the accepted protections keep up with their moronic actions.

 

Just like the idiot in the school class who's actions get everyone detention.

 

Some folk never learn

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23 minutes ago, matelodave said:

I dont think you are correct - it's not the fact of witholding funds its more than likely that its the way the funds are utilised and prioritised that's more to the point.

 

Did we really need 20,000+ ventilators mouldering in a storeroom for twenty or so years just in case or a couple of million face masks doing the same and then allowing the press to have a field day because they had expired use by dates. 

Perhaps it would be better if someone sat in a storeroom and purchased another 10,000 facemasks a month and chucked away a corresponding  10,000 of them every month because they were  out of date. (actually it wouldn't surprise me at all if that's what really happens anyway)

 

Perhaps we should now keep Excel and the other "Nightingale" hospitals mothballed and on standby when this lot is over, just in case this kicks off again in say 5, 10, 20 years (you choose). Can we really afford the cost and resource because you cant just lock the doors and come back when its required.  You have to keep it maintained in in a suitable state to bring it back into service )and pay the rent of buy it off the owner)

 

The NHS and I'm sure that most health services (either in the UK or elsewhere) are geared up for major incidents like terrorist attacks, train crashers, major fires and even plane crashes because they can call upon the resources of adjacent organisations or even adjacent countries.

 

This is different and if some people could actually get their head around the fact that everyone in every town, county and country is after the same resource and expertise, whether it's people, PPE, ventilators or hospital beds then perhaps there'd be less rubbish spouted by the media and even some of the correspondents on this forum.

 

All these organisations have finite resources - how many spares of stuff do you keep at home just in case - probably a lightbulb or two but not a lot more I'll wager

 

 

Matelodave,

 

What as sensible balanced answer if I may say so.
 

How can any country or government prepare for an unprecedented situation as the key word is unprecedented? Clearly, it’s how a government responds to the situation put in front of them. I am sure in the post mortem after we are through this that high insight will show that we could have done some things better but so far the NHS is creaking but managing with new resource coming on stream everyday. I am very proud to be British and even more so seeing the way that the vast majority are pulling together.  

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50 minutes ago, Griff said:

I have a small number of FFP2's which I bought last year for a slabbing job, overkill for slabbing I suppose, underkill for Covid 19, I hope not.

 

I read it as "for a stabbing job" - and I can't go to Specsavers :)  :) :) 

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3 minutes ago, Silversurf said:

 

If the public at large are sensible, adhere to the advice, think what they are doing there should be no need over here for the above measures, however the above measures may be needed if all the idiots who don't comply with the accepted protections keep up with their moronic actions.

 

 

I don't understand how some members of the public's brains work, I really don't.  As some know I (like a few on here) I am keen cyclist, having lost my dad (heart attack) at the age of 59 I have been determined not to follow his example and like to try and stay fit.  Staying within the Government's advice (advice given to us the public from experts considering risks, not advice given by someone on Facebook) I have been alternating between using an indoors "turbo trainer" (a piece of kit enabling you to cycle indoors) and going out for an afternoon ride for an hour on an alternating daily basis.  The Governments advice is clear, this is acceptable, there is no ambiguity.

 

Two weeks ago I was spat at by a car full of morons and told to self isolate.  They were heading into the local "problem estate" so I shrugged it off.  Yesterday afternoon I was out for a ride in the countryside, enjoying the quiet roads and the sunshine.  A new car drew up alongside me and the older (probably mid-60's) couple screamed out of the window, with pure venom and anger that I should **** off home and didn't I realise that I was killing people by being outside!  They sped off before I could react, both of them (in the car) with their dog in the back so hardly on an essential journey.  But why on earth do some think like this?  Granted, some have an opinion that leaving the house to exercise puts you at risk of needing the already stretched NHS resources should you have an accident, but that's all it is, an opinion.  

 

The Government guidelines really are clear, while they are fairly "loose" and leave some interpretation, exercise is allowed while following certain restrictions.  I really do loose faith in the publics level of intellect sometimes, I really do.

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19 minutes ago, Grandpa Steve said:

 

I read it as "for a stabbing job" - and I can't go to Specsavers :)  :) :) 

It was auto corrected to stabbing but just spotted it before posting. :P

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26 minutes ago, Silversurf said:

 

If the public at large are sensible, adhere to the advice, think what they are doing there should be no need over here for the above measures, however the above measures may be needed if all the idiots who don't comply with the accepted protections keep up with their moronic actions.

 

Just like the idiot in the school class who's actions get everyone detention.

 

Some folk never learn

You have deliberately taken my last comment out of context - why I can only guess. That comment was referring specifically to locking people up as suggested by Durbanite. 

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4 hours ago, WispMan said:

German deaths 24 per million of pop. 

USA 39

UK  91

 

As of today but I have no idea what you can make of these statistics especially as the virus has a way to go. 

 

with 311 and 283 for Spain and Italy respectively.

the virus has between 7-10 days to peak here(sez Prof Neil Ferguson) but it looks like Spain and Italy have reached their peak-if they stay indoors.

China claims that Wuhan is coming out of lock down-pandemic second wave?

Will they keep the second wave a secret?

I think they will.

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Meanwhile, There is a report on Yahoo News this morning about a driver in Essex who "went out for a drive because they was bored". They "came off the road" and crashed into  a fence. The police statement said "Us and the ambulance crew are both really busy and don't need extra work".

I really hope that they give this moron a five year ban. (But he/she'll probably get away with a £60 fine to be paid at £5 a week).

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3 hours ago, CommanderDave said:

As the virus they are finding is atomising in the air I would say you would need a PP3 to be sure .

 

We  have 2 stage P2 and P3 3M ma

 

Dave

 

It depends on who you are trying to protect, yourself or others. It has been stated by a number of virologists that a close-fitting scarf will already be good enough to protect others. However, if you want to protect yourself, you do need something better.

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34 minutes ago, ancell said:

We still have many unsung heroes on the front line risking their lives through inadequate personal protective equipment despite govt claims of "millions of bits of kit"

There was a comment from a Doctor on last week’s C4 Dispatches, which absolutely nailed the situation.    What he said was.   If there had been preparation, then there would be no need for Hero’s.

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2 hours ago, Fat Albert said:

You have deliberately taken my last comment out of context - why I can only guess. That comment was referring specifically to locking people up as suggested by Durbanite. 

People are locked up until they can see a magistrate and that could be the same day, evening or the next morning.  Unlikely to be longer than 24 hours.  A wake up call to those spreading false news.

 

However I still think that if you flout the rules you should be locked up for 6 months or a very high fine instead of a mere £60 as you are endangering other people and if doing it knowingly, you could be committing a crime of attempted murder or murder. 

 

A bit over the top maybe, but it may wake up those dimwit idiots that persist in ignoring the guidelines laid down by the government to protect us all.  I also agree that you should be fined or even locked up for spreading false news and rumours

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30 minutes ago, fred said:

There was a comment from a Doctor on last week’s C4 Dispatches, which absolutely nailed the situation.    What he said was.   If there had been preparation, then there would be no need for Hero’s.

 

Correct, but this pandemic could have been avoided if the Chinese government had 1 -  notified the WHO immediately it was discovered and      2 - Banned all international flights in and out of China at the same time. .  

Their government waited far too long before taking any action....      I do not blame the Chinese people, they have suffered dreadfully......It's their government who are to blame for this world wide pandemic...  

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5 hours ago, Grandpa Steve said:

 

Whilst he may well be proven right he is not an eminent microbiologist or scientist he made his fortune building computers, so its highly unlikely the "experts" would heed his warnings without hard evidence.

Surely the 'Hard Evidence' is there by the number of deaths that are being recorded even if they are not the total truth because some of the totalitarian regimes/countries are withholding the real truth from the rest of the world.

One surely does have to be an eminent microbiologist or scientist to make predictions based upon historical evidence.

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17 minutes ago, AWanderingLancastrian said:

Surely the 'Hard Evidence' is there by the number of deaths that are being recorded even if they are not the total truth because some of the totalitarian regimes/countries are withholding the real truth from the rest of the world.

One surely does have to be an eminent microbiologist or scientist to make predictions based upon historical evidence.

 

Oh John, we are discussing something Bill Gates said in 2015 (5 years ago), you are talking about what is happening now in 2020, where is the historic evidence you speak of?

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1 hour ago, Durbanite said:

People are locked up until they can see a magistrate and that could be the same day, evening or the next morning.  Unlikely to be longer than 24 hours.  A wake up call to those spreading false news.

 

However I still think that if you flout the rules you should be locked up for 6 months or a very high fine instead of a mere £60 as you are endangering other people and if doing it knowingly, you could be committing a crime of attempted murder or murder. 

 

A bit over the top maybe, but it may wake up those dimwit idiots that persist in ignoring the guidelines laid down by the government to protect us all.  I also agree that you should be fined or even locked up for spreading false news and rumours

A bit over the top ! Sounds very much like the authorities telling people what they may or may not think. A very dangerous path to go down.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bessacarr425 said:

 

Correct, but this pandemic could have been avoided if the Chinese government had 1 -  notified the WHO immediately it was discovered and      2 - Banned all international flights in and out of China at the same time. .  

Their government waited far too long before taking any action....      I do not blame the Chinese people, they have suffered dreadfully......It's their government who are to blame for this world wide pandemic...  

Can also add the world's governments may have been slow to react due to the number of cases reported from China where their population is approx 20 times greater than most European countries. This would have suggested only about 4000 cases with about 150 deaths in most countries. It was not until the numbers from Italy emerged that the true realisation of how bad it was going to become came to light and 100 times worse than expected.

Edited by Paul1957

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