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People ignoring the advice.

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On 06/04/2020 at 06:45, fred said:

The latest figures I can find are that Germany have had 1,584 deaths due to Covid-19.   The figure for the U.K. is 4,932.  

I not sure we are in any position to criticise the German  governments policy in response.  To the pandemic. 

 

Whilst we are unlikely to know the complete truth, one of reasons that Germany APPEARS to have a lower rate is because they are recording the deaths of people who have died OF Covid-19 (presumably where they have had no underlying conditions) whereas in the UK the deaths are recorded as being WITH Covid-19 (in a good number of cases having underlying pre-existing conditions).

 

There also appears to be different messages coming from Germany too. Lutz pretty much implies that it’s “carry on as normal” (taking sensible precautions of course), whereas my long-standing (suffering?) German friend said on 22nd March, and I quote, “Just today shutdown. Only allowed to go to work and food shop or doc. Only 2 persons. Absolute crazy!”

 

Whatever, it’s an awful situation, and I just hope that we ALL come through this and can take up our favourite pastime in the not too distant future, whenever that might be.

 

Stay safe folks!

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30 minutes ago, Gordon said:

I suppose each country must do what they think best for their population but I really cannot see that wearing a mask will make the slightest difference, unless those masks meet some very specific standards, as the we are told that the regular paper masks that are intended to filter out dust particles, are next to useless in preventing the passage of viruses. 

What I do believe is that regular cleansing of our hands and surfaces we touch, together with keeping a distance from others makes perfect sense. 

Gordon

I think the basic standard for a mask suitable for medical issues is a N95 standard?

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18 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

I think the basic standard for a mask suitable for medical issues is a N95 standard?

 

N95 is the US standard I believe which is equivalent to the EU standard FFP2.

 

For Covid the HSE are recommending FFP3 for health workers.

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10 minutes ago, Easy T said:

My reading of the statements from various medical sources is that whilst simple masks do not directly offer much protection to the wearer they do greatly reduce the transmission by the wearer to others and are therefore worthwhile..

I just hope these 'medical sources' are right and my perception is wrong as, honestly, there is nothing I would like more.

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1 hour ago, nigel207 said:

There also appears to be different messages coming from Germany too. Lutz pretty much implies that it’s “carry on as normal” (taking sensible precautions of course), whereas my long-standing (suffering?) German friend said on 22nd March, and I quote, “Just today shutdown. Only allowed to go to work and food shop or doc. Only 2 persons. Absolute crazy!”

I suspect it's the states in Germany that will decide on any lockdown and they are likely to make different decisions.

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2 hours ago, nigel207 said:

 

Whilst we are unlikely to know the complete truth, one of reasons that Germany APPEARS to have a lower rate is because they are recording the deaths of people who have died OF Covid-19 (presumably where they have had no underlying conditions) whereas in the UK the deaths are recorded as being WITH Covid-19 (in a good number of cases having underlying pre-existing conditions).

 

There also appears to be different messages coming from Germany too. Lutz pretty much implies that it’s “carry on as normal” (taking sensible precautions of course), whereas my long-standing (suffering?) German friend said on 22nd March, and I quote, “Just today shutdown. Only allowed to go to work and food shop or doc. Only 2 persons. Absolute crazy!”

 

Whatever, it’s an awful situation, and I just hope that we ALL come through this and can take up our favourite pastime in the not too distant future, whenever that might be.

 

Stay safe folks!

 

Germany has 7 lands or states they all do their own thing-generally.

I know in the capital city-Berlin its very much NOT business as usual.

My friend is a care worker she has to travel across the city on public transport.

Everyone-being German-is practicing safe distancing and very few people are moving around.

When she goes outdoors to work she wears a mask and gloves.

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1 hour ago, AndersG said:

I suspect it's the states in Germany that will decide on any lockdown and they are likely to make different decisions.

 

Although there are differences from state to state, none are on anything like as severe a lockdown as in the UK. In fact, they are already discussing limited relaxation of some of the measures in force if the number of confirmed cases doubles in 17 days rather than 10 days, as it is currently. It looks as if they could be on target by the end of the month.

 

1 hour ago, ancell said:

 

Germany has 7 lands or states they all do their own thing-generally.

I know in the capital city-Berlin its very much NOT business as usual.

My friend is a care worker she has to travel across the city on public transport.

Everyone-being German-is practicing safe distancing and very few people are moving around.

When she goes outdoors to work she wears a mask and gloves.

 

Actually, Germany has 16 states.

It is true that safe-distancing is considered one of the most important measures, if not the most important, and it is being practised by almost everybody. Apart from an equally strictly applied limit of groups of more than 2 people, everything else is advisory only. Shops, restaurants, schools, etc. are closed everywhere, but there no mandated limit regarding movement outside.

 

I think the main difference between the UK and Germany is in the number of tests being carried out. From the figures that I have, the UK is currently testing about 2200 people per million whereas the rate in Germany is over 11,000.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Lutz said:

 none are on anything like as severe a lockdown as in the UK.

 

We in the UK have our lockdown easy without any heavy-handedness from the authorities.   My two mates - Willy & Yvonne opted to stay on in their caravan in Spain.   Shortly after they had  made their decision, the ferries ceased running, the hotels closed in both Spain & France.   They had their dog which complicated any travel arrangements.   They were stuck!    Now,they've had to move out of the caravan and into a bungalow because the toilet blocks had to close.   They can't go out as a couple.   One person can walk the dog for 150 metres.   One person can drive to the supermarket once per week.   The Guardia and the Army are on the streets stopping cars and asking questions.   Yvonne posted this piccie.

 

890981938_Lockdown-Spain.jpg.0c3174c0377fb7763ecfd8f9a957e62c.jpg

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just read that France have stopped daytime exercising from 10 am to 7 pm.  It wouldn't surprise me if the UK didn't follow suit, although I think that the majority of people are doing as they're told.

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At the start of this fiasco the leader of the World Health Organisation was on telly and his message was "Test, Test and Test again."

Where are all the tests going on in UK???-----certainly not up here.

Surely, this advice is paramount in restricting the spread of this dreadful virus.

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1 hour ago, Jaydug said:

 

We in the UK have our lockdown easy without any heavy-handedness from the authorities.   My two mates - Willy & Yvonne opted to stay on in their caravan in Spain.   Shortly after they had  made their decision, the ferries ceased running, the hotels closed in both Spain & France.   They had their dog which complicated any travel arrangements.   They were stuck!    Now,they've had to move out of the caravan and into a bungalow because the toilet blocks had to close.   They can't go out as a couple.   One person can walk the dog for 150 metres.   One person can drive to the supermarket once per week.   The Guardia and the Army are on the streets stopping cars and asking questions.

 

 

The Germany constitution  prohibits the army from carrying out police duties.

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27 minutes ago, blondchaser said:

At the start of this fiasco the leader of the World Health Organisation was on telly and his message was "Test, Test and Test again."

Where are all the tests going on in UK???-----certainly not up here.

Surely, this advice is paramount in restricting the spread of this dreadful virus.

 

When all the world is after the same chemicals and gear to make up the testing kits there is bound to be a shortage, they don't just keep a few zillion gallons of this and that just in case  a virus no one was anticipation comes along.

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2 minutes ago, Grandpa Steve said:

 

When all the world is after the same chemicals and gear to make up the testing kits there is bound to be a shortage, they don't just keep a few zillion gallons of this and that just in case  a virus no one was anticipation comes along.

 

Of course, but where are the stocks that should have been available before the pandemic started? Some countries seem to be able to carry out tests on everybody already with first signs of suspected infection.

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5 hours ago, Lutz said:

 

Although there are differences from state to state, none are on anything like as severe a lockdown as in the UK. In fact, they are already discussing limited relaxation of some of the measures in force if the number of confirmed cases doubles in 17 days rather than 10 days, as it is currently. It looks as if they could be on target by the end of the month.

Denmark is reopening kindergarten and schools for the young. Austria and Czech republic are also easing restrictions and I expect more to do the same.

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Jaydug said:

 

We in the UK have our lockdown easy without any heavy-handedness from the authorities.   My two mates - Willy & Yvonne opted to stay on in their caravan in Spain.   Shortly after they had  made their decision, the ferries ceased running, the hotels closed in both Spain & France.   They had their dog which complicated any travel arrangements.   They were stuck!    Now,they've had to move out of the caravan and into a bungalow because the toilet blocks had to close.   They can't go out as a couple.   One person can walk the dog for 150 metres.   One person can drive to the supermarket once per week.   The Guardia and the Army are on the streets stopping cars and asking questions.   Yvonne posted this piccie.

 

890981938_Lockdown-Spain.jpg.0c3174c0377fb7763ecfd8f9a957e62c.jpg

 

We also elected to stay in Spain. A few days into the lock-down we had to certify, in writing, that our caravan was self-contained (on-board toilet and shower) because the authorities had ordered the site to close the sanitary facilities. A few people had to leave the site at that time, same as Jaydug's friends. We have not seen any Army patrols, but the Guardia is very much in evidence. Local news has reported that road-blocks set up by the police have stopped Madrid residents en route to their holiday homes in Santa Pola. So much for stay at home/essential journeys. As we understand it, we are now allowed two people to travel in one vehicle, so long as one travels in the back seat! Hard luck if you have a Smart car:D. However, if I take my wife shopping, only one of us is supposed to go into the supermarket. Personally, I don't see the authorities as "heavy-handedness": I see it as trying to protect those of us who are behaving responsibly.

Edited by Flying Grandad
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29 minutes ago, Flying Grandad said:

We have not seen any Army patrols, but the Guardia is very much in evidence.

 

Patrols must vary from one province to another.   I was sent this piece of video last week.   It shows the main road, not far from the site where I stay.   In fact, it was filmed outside my local Mercadona.

 

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9 hours ago, ancell said:

 

Germany has 7 lands or states they all do their own thing-generally.

16 not 7

I had to learn them all as part of my citizenship test 😀

On 06/04/2020 at 06:53, Gordon said:

Please do not take this personally as you are not the only person in Germany to say the same but I fail to understand why anyone would carry on as before when clearly they could be putting themselves and others at increased risk of infection. The situation here in the UK is no secret, why would anyone reading this forum think the virus would not be transferred in the same way in Germany. Instead of waiting for a directive, why are people in Germany not being proactive and taking control of their own lives?

It’s much more relaxed here, I believe we have far more many cases than the UK and for a few weeks longer but nowhere near the amount of deaths. Why is that? I have no idea, I wish I did. 
I’ve been cycling today, 50 miles, no restrictions, shopping no dramas, no masks, no queues, no sense of panic.

It’s certainly not Life as normal but having spoken to friends and family in the UK and watching UK TV it appears much worse in Britain.

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On 06/04/2020 at 09:32, Grandpa Steve said:


That’s just what they said in Italy a few weeks ago.

 

Let’s just hope none of us get’s to say to you  “ I told you so”!

It’s not a competition, I hope all countries get through this as best as possible 

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6 hours ago, joanie said:

just read that France have stopped daytime exercising from 10 am to 7 pm.  It wouldn't surprise me if the UK didn't follow suit, although I think that the majority of people are doing as they're told.

Just to clarify that. 

This has been imposed in Paris only - not France.

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1 hour ago, Borussia 1900 said:

It’s not a competition, I hope all countries get through this as best as possible 

 

While not a competition at the end of this there will be lessons to be learned.

Of course its difficult when totalitarian nations tell lies eg China Iran and Russia but surely the truly ghastly level of death per million in the richest nation on the planet must give the Americans pause for thought when they look at German deaths per million?

German pop 84 million deaths to date 2000

USA          pop 331 million deaths to date 12700 with many more to come.

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German deaths 24 per million of pop. 

USA 39

UK  91

 

As of today but I have no idea what you can make of these statistics especially as the virus has a way to go. 

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13 hours ago, Grandpa Steve said:

 

When all the world is after the same chemicals and gear to make up the testing kits there is bound to be a shortage, they don't just keep a few zillion gallons of this and that just in case  a virus no one was anticipation comes along.

 

No  one anticipating really!

 

Bill Gates 2015

 

 

And before someone retorts that he didn’t know about this specific corona virus true, but as afaik PPE,  swabs and most reagents are generic.  And it would be needed in any pandemic, same as ventilators.  Bill Gates  isn’t a David Icke type nutter and he, wasn’t alone fearing a Pandemic.  

So next time someone in authority pretends that this was entirely unanticipated don’t believe them, they are not telling the truth. 

 

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4 minutes ago, fred said:

No  one anticipating really!

 

Bill Gates 2015

 

And before someone retorts that he didn’t know about this specific corona virus true, but as afaik PPE,  swabs and most reagents are generic.  And it would be needed in any pandemic, same as ventilators.  Bill Gates  isn’t a David Icke type nutter and he, wasn’t alone fearing a Pandemic.  

So next time someone in authority pretends that this was entirely unanticipated don’t believe them, they are not telling the truth. 

 

 

Whilst he may well be proven right he is not an eminent microbiologist or scientist he made his fortune building computers, so its highly unlikely the "experts" would heed his warnings without hard evidence.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Grandpa Steve said:

 

Whilst he may well be proven right he is not an eminent microbiologist or scientist he made his fortune building computers, so its highly unlikely the "experts" would heed his warnings without hard evidence.

 

One doesn't need to be an expert to foresee that something like this could possibly happening. No, it's pure short term economics, i.e. deliberate withholding of funds from medical services, that has put some countries into the position that they are in at the moment.

Edited by Lutz
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7 minutes ago, Grandpa Steve said:

 

Whilst he may well be proven right he is not an eminent microbiologist or scientist he made his fortune building computers, so its highly unlikely the "experts" would heed his warnings without hard evidence.

That was a really quick reply.  I am surprised that you had time to listen to what he had to say.   

 

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