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Mark Jones

Static site fees in this Covid19 period

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Does any one know if we are entitled to any sort of rebate on our site fee's as our Caravan Park has been closed until further notice due to the Corona virus outbreak.

This means that we are paying for a facility that we cannot use. Doesn't seem right to me.

Best Wishes

Mark

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In a word......NO

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There are other posts on this subject and in general NO.

 

You have the opportunity to ask the site and see if they will give you a reduction, but dont count on it.  They have the similar opportunity to tell you to pay up or move your van.

 

 You'd have to decide which is more of an inconvenience, pay money for  using his land or finding somewhere to resite your van. you have to bear in mind that it's still sitting on his land and taking up his space even though you may not be able to use it. 

 

keep us posted if you try and tell us the outcome.

 

At least one other has been told that he can remove his van if he doesn't like it but still has to pay whilst it's occupying it's site. He's not happy but it is what it is and he's going to go somewhere else when it all over. A solution that might not be everso convenient or cheap, especially if you need someone esle to do the lifting and shifting

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If your pitch fee is not inclusive of rates (i.e, your bill shows a separate fee for your share of the business rates paid by your park) then you may get a refund for this portion, as there is a rates holiday for all businesses in England.  The actual pitch fee will still apply - some parks may offer some form of goodwill  in due course, but it is far too early for any operator to know what they can afford to offer.

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3 hours ago, Mark Jones said:

Does any one know if we are entitled to any sort of rebate on our site fee's as our Caravan Park has been closed until further notice due to the Corona virus outbreak.

This means that we are paying for a facility that we cannot use. Doesn't seem right to me.

Best Wishes

Mark

 

 

The fact that you can't use the facilities is hardly a matter of the site owners making. 

 

Sadly,  there are going to be many  losers in the current event, if your loss is financial on a none critical expenditure then think yourself lucky, many are losing something that money can't buy. 

  

Sorry to be blunt, but I'm struggling to keep a highly vulnerable elderly person safe and alive, a few pounds of ground rent seems rather trivial. 

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Surely you cannot be expected  to pay for a "luxury" item that you can't use?

The government has effectively given rental tenants 3 months free rent and their housing is essential. 

It would be a brave caravan park that tried to enforce payment on this one.

I think payment of a service charge might be reasonable perhaps 20% of fees  as the staff will be getting 80% of wages paid by the government (and the bill will be coming to us taxpayers ultimately).

We are all in this  together all businesses need to be realistic in what they expect people to be able to afford and they need to make sure they retain customers after all this is over.

I am not sure that some of the commentators on this topic are as well informed as they seem to be.When people's incomes are being effectively cut by at least 20% the leisure industry need to realise they are a long way down people's essential  bill list.

Surely  sites have insurance to cover this kind of eventuality, Wimbledon does. 

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To put it into perspective, if I had purchased an annual seat at the opera, an annual car parking spot, an annual train ticket etc.and was unable to use them for whatever reason, within or outside my or any bodies  control I wouldn't expect those companies to re-reimburse me, why should I ?

 

Likewise if the facilities were not available for reasons outside the companies control, as now, I wouldn't expect reimbursement.

 

I expect to pay £x   per year, for the site fees and use of my caravan, if I use it or not for any reason, the fact that I can't use it at the moment, or even this year is annoying, but not my nor the sites fault.

 

It's a great site, owners are fantastic, a spot that suits me down to the ground and has been so for abut 30 odd years.

 

Will I, under the prevailing circumstances, pay the full site fees, of course I will.

 

Why ? Well, if I was reimbursed what would I do with the money ? Buy something I may not need or stick it back in the bank at what is basically a zero interest rate, buy another holiday, no chance of that, not that I would want to.

 

So why would I do this ?  Simply in the hope that it helps to keep the site viable for many years to come, for me, my family and the many friends I have down there.

 

There are far worse tragic and life changing things happening to millions of folk the world over, other than losing  a few quid that was earmarked anyway.

 

Be thankful for what you've got.

 

If I don't succumb to the virus and the sites future is  secure great, if I do succumb and the sites future is secure, it will in a small part be a little bit of my legacy for others to benefit from.

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Surely you cannot be expected  to pay for a "luxury" item that you can't use?

You have a choice to remove the luxury item off the site !

 

The government has effectively given rental tenants 3 months free rent and their housing is essential. 

Then why  should non essential ' luxury items/tenants ' be given the same treatment?

 

It would be a brave caravan park that tried to enforce payment on this one.

Would it ? you would have two choices, pay up or move off.

 

I think payment of a service charge might be reasonable perhaps 20% of fees...................

You've obviously not thought this one out, even with no staff, sites still have overheads, water, electricity, rates, maintenance, insurance, security, repairs, etc.

 

We are all in this  together all businesses need to be realistic in what they expect people to be able to afford and they need to make sure they retain customers after all this is over.

What the customer can afford is irrelevant, it's what it costs to keep the site viable, no point in trying to retain customers if what the customers can afford is less than it takes to run the site.

 

I am not sure that some of the commentators on this topic are as well informed as they seem to be.

I presume, and hope, you include yourself in this statement !

 

When people's incomes are being effectively cut by at least 20% the leisure industry need to realise they are a long way down people's essential  bill list.

True, but this doesn't apply only to the leisure industry, in the present scenario it applies many other industries to a lesser or greater degree.

 

Surely  sites have insurance to cover this kind of eventuality, Wimbledon does. 

I would be obliged if you could point me to where there is information that Wimbledon has this cover, I would doubt very much that conventional caravan sites insurance policies would cover this scenario, but, as always,I'm prepared to be proved  wrong.

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May I suggest that when going in to stand-up for your "rights" that you've explored and planned what to do with your van if the site tells you to take a hike and to take the van with you when you do.

 

I dont know what your agreement might say - so it would be worth checking the wording very carefully but I'd guess that his obligation is to allow you to site your van and to provide some security services to it and not much else.

 

Perhaps you should check your holiday insurance to see if that allows for unfettered access and enjoyment  to your van when it's planted on someone elses land

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The reason your site is closed is because they were instructed to close as being non-essential.

The reason they were told to close is because so many people were ignoring the advice not to travel unless it was essential.

Those people who complain that they should get a rebate because they cannot visit their holiday caravan because the site is closed  may be the people who caused it to be closed in the first place.

The urge to say "stop whining" is almost overpowering me - but I will resist.

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No, as you are still taking up the space had you been able to use your static, unless you have a very very kind owner of the site


Les

 

 

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I still have to pay site fees for my tourer on the secure park.  I wouldn't think of asking for a reduction.  Its just one of those things that people don't think about.  Its still got to be paid.  The same thing with people who own boats that have to pay mooring charges, or even live on one.  

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looking at it another way, I take my touring caravan out of storage quite a bit during the year , but I still pay for the whole year in  the  storage  site even though I am also paying for a pitch on a caravan site, so for part of the year I am paying double to pitch my caravan.

  Mark  Jones, like most of us during these unprecedented times,  just take it on the chin for now, 

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When this is all over the legal profession and accountants are going to have a field day sorting these kind of issues out.

There will also be the likes of caravan park owners going bankrupt. Not only will they still have to service mortgages and business loans, but the maintenance will still have to be done without the benefit of holiday lettings and commission on sale of new vans.

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I work in law and I also have a static caravan with Park Dean Resorts. Unfortunately all of us owners will have to just take this on the chin and ride through the storm for the time being. Ultimately, by definition of the law we are all bound by the terms and conditions of our licence agreement. So that's a contract which both you as an owner and the site, are bound by. If you cancel payments or move your van without prior agreement, then you are in breach of contract and you will be liable for any outstanding subsequent fees. As this instruction to close all sites is from the government and not the individual caravan parks themselves, then 

they are not in breach of contract as they are technically still providing you the service you are paying for (the rental of your pitch and any other associated services like security). The only course of potential redress is via the individual caravan parks making a claim on their individual insurance policies which may allow a caveat for them to them pass any compensation for any site fees paid, to owners. This however would only be deemed as a gesture of goodwill and isn't something ordinarily which they would be obliged to do.

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I predict a market swamped with 2nd hand static vans soon. I wonder where they all go. 

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Not just statics, ,,,,,,with the heavy taxation proposed on fossil fueled SUVs and large engined cars, it could be the death knell for heavy luxury towed caravans.  

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I am sure that in most contracts there will be a Force Majeure clause which allows for the suspension of the contract during that time. 

 

However by the same token, if the contract is suspended for 3 months instead of the contract finishing in 12 months time it should be extended by three months at perhaps no additional costs.  I am not sure on the latter, but I am sure that it will be pickled up by some lawyer.

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1 hour ago, bessacarr425 said:

Not just statics, ,,,,,,with the heavy taxation proposed on fossil fueled SUVs and large engined cars, it could be the death knell for heavy luxury towed caravans.  

Good thing with a big motor is your able to send the tax back when not using it un like a static you pay what ever.

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On 05/04/2020 at 08:58, joanie said:

looking at it another way, I take my touring caravan out of storage quite a bit during the year , but I still pay for the whole year in  the  storage  site even though I am also paying for a pitch on a caravan site, so for part of the year I am paying double to pitch my caravan.

  Mark  Jones, like most of us during these unprecedented times,  just take it on the chin for now, 

:goodpost:Well said Joanie, you beat me to it!!..


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Some of the responses here are really quite astounding.  Surely the correct answer to the OP is,

 

“you really should speak with the site owner rather than ask people who have no idea as to your specific contract, the site you are on or the site owner’s disposition towards his tenants in respect of the current lock down”

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

I am sure that in most contracts there will be a Force Majeure clause which allows for the suspension of the contract during that time. 

 

However by the same token, if the contract is suspended for 3 months instead of the contract finishing in 12 months time it should be extended by three months at perhaps no additional costs.  I am not sure on the latter, but I am sure that it will be pickled up by some lawyer.

Not quite sure what you mean by "some lawyer". A veiled insult possibly. 🤔

 

Still, I'll just clarify that Force Majeure is not a provision to suspend a contract. It is a principle which allows one or more parties, depending on the contract wording, to effectively have a get out clause for a liability, responsibility or duty if a major force occurs over which they have no control. With insurance contracts, for example, it's the "not covered for loss caused by an Act of God" exemption. If used in the context of static caravans I would guess that the contract wording protects the park owner from loss of fees in the event of use or access being denied because of something entirely out of their control such as flood, war or a major epidemic.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Legal Eagle said:

Not quite sure what you mean by "some lawyer". A veiled insult possibly. 🤔

 

Still, I'll just clarify that Force Majeure is not a provision to suspend a contract. It is a principle which allows one or more parties, depending on the contract wording, to effectively have a get out clause for a liability, responsibility or duty if a major force occurs over which they have no control. With insurance contracts, for example, it's the "not covered for loss caused by an Act of God" exemption. If used in the context of static caravans I would guess that the contract wording protects the park owner from loss of fees in the event of use or access being denied because of something entirely out of their control such as flood, war or a major epidemic.

 

 

It definitely was not targeted at you at all and I apologise if it caused any offence.  Thank you for the explanation.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ReggiePerrin said:

Some of the responses here are really quite astounding.  Surely the correct answer to the OP is,

 

“you really should speak with the site owner rather than ask people who have no idea as to your specific contract, the site you are on or the site owner’s disposition towards his tenants in respect of the current lock down”

 

 

That answer has already been given on both this thread and others where a similar query has been made - it's down to the contract T & C's between you and the site. (look back to 08:27 yesterday morning)

 

No one else can answer the question because they don't know what has been written. We all might have an opinion but it does not confer an entitlement to get some money back.  In the end the site owner does really have control, whatever the rest of us might think.

Edited by matelodave

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1 minute ago, matelodave said:

No one else can answer the question because they don't know what has been written

Precisely but lack of factual knowledge, it appears, is often no bar to answering the question with nothing more than opinion presented as fact.

 

 

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