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SamD

Essential or not?

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Posted (edited)

I would say it depends if you have a 50 year old daughter with a compromised immune system who has a teenage daughter with type 1 diabetes-like mine.

I think you can guess my view.

 

Edited by Grandpa Steve
Quoted post removed as not relevant to this reply

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It interesting how people interpret the guidelines. For example this extract from the Gov guidance page....

 

2. Work carried out in people’s homes

Work carried out in people’s homes, for example by tradespeople carrying out repairs and maintenance, can continue, provided that the tradesperson is well and has no symptoms.

Again, it will be important to ensure that Public Health England guidelines, including maintaining a two-metre distance from any household occupants, are followed to ensure everyone’s safety.

 

 A self employed gardener living near me is continuing to work on garden maintenance.

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8 hours ago, kelper said:

My dealer said I the front disks were corroded and worn.  The pads have less than 30 % left.  The car is still in warranty.  I still intend to drive to my nearest authorised dealer and get these parts replaced.  But it's 75 miles away and a two-and-a-half hour drive,  Should I cancel?  If I lived 5 miles from a dealer would your answer be different?  What if it were 10 miles or 20?  I find it hard to decide.  These are difficult decisions when you live in remote parts.  I need the car to shop for food since we are 25 miles from any supermarket.  And two-and-a -half hours from the nearest A&E.  I would not want to rely on an ambulance if one  of us need emergency treatment be it for CoV or a stroke or heart attack.

 

I positively welcome contrary opinions.  Why else would I post?  I have posted on a few forums in the last five years and when I get opposing views I have occasionally changed my mind.

Pity you can not get the dealer to send you the parts, you would be able to fit them in less than the time taken to go to the dealer.

 

As others have said, unless you do a lot of miles each year you might find they do not actually need replacing yet but to confirm this would need the pads and discs measuring, just saying less than 30% does not tell you enough. However, since you are not paying, having it done now will save you £100 or so for parts and similar for labour if you do not do your own maintenance.

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I'm actually surprised a main dealer will be open at all. All the ones round us in Leicester seem to be shut. As the OP says, perhaps things are different in Scotland. 

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Arnold Clark closed briefly.  But garages are deemed essential.

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Most car sales showrooms are closed, but some service departments are open and will prioritise work to ensure they have staff available for "urgent" maintenance such as safety related repairs, routine maintenance such as servicing and none urgent warranty repairs are being deferred.

 

Also major groups are opening only selected workshops across the country.

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I've had comms from 3 dealerships I've used in the past, and they ALL said that their Service Depts were closed EXCEPT for repairs to vehicles of essential workers... 

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18 hours ago, kelper said:

My dealer said I the front disks were corroded and worn.  The pads have less than 30 % left.  The car is still in warranty.  I still intend to drive to my nearest authorised dealer and get these parts replaced.  But it's 75 miles away and a two-and-a-half hour drive,  Should I cancel?  If I lived 5 miles from a dealer would your answer be different?  What if it were 10 miles or 20?  I find it hard to decide.  These are difficult decisions when you live in remote parts.  I need the car to shop for food since we are 25 miles from any supermarket.  And two-and-a -half hours from the nearest A&E.  I would not want to rely on an ambulance if one  of us need emergency treatment be it for CoV or a stroke or heart attack.

 

I positively welcome contrary opinions.  Why else would I post?  I have posted on a few forums in the last five years and when I get opposing views I have occasionally changed my mind.

My vehicle needs a repair, but it will need to wait until this crisis has passed on.  In the meantime I can still use it for short distances as it is still roadworthy although it would fail a MOT due to a warning light.

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11 hours ago, ericfield said:

It interesting how people interpret the guidelines. For example this extract from the Gov guidance page....

 

2. Work carried out in people’s homes

Work carried out in people’s homes, for example by tradespeople carrying out repairs and maintenance, can continue, provided that the tradesperson is well and has no symptoms.

Again, it will be important to ensure that Public Health England guidelines, including maintaining a two-metre distance from any household occupants, are followed to ensure everyone’s safety.

 

 A self employed gardener living near me is continuing to work on garden maintenance.

I have no problem with that. Our chap comes once a fortnight with his assistant in order to keep lawns under control. He phoned last Thursday and asked if I wanted him to come. Yes I did. He arrived gloved up with a mask which he and his assistant wore to protect themselves from each other. I washed the notes for his payment along with breakfast dishes and weighted them on a patio table with a freshly washed mug. Neighbour did the same but pegged hers on the washing line. 

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Just out of interest (it doesn't affect me because here in Germany because we don't have the same restrictions as in the UK) I would like to know what my position would be if I lived in the UK.

 

I have a house and a flat, which are about 7 miles apart. I am currently redecorating the bathroom so it is not usable at the moment. In order to be able to take a shower I have to drive to the flat. On the other hand my bed is in the house and all the cooking etc. is done there. Would the trip to the flat be considered an essential journey in the UK?

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No. Not in any way would that be classified as essential here in the UK. 

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10 minutes ago, Lutz said:

Just out of interest (it doesn't affect me because here in Germany because we don't have the same restrictions as in the UK) I would like to know what my position would be if I lived in the UK.

 

I have a house and a flat, which are about 7 miles apart. I am currently redecorating the bathroom so it is not usable at the moment. In order to be able to take a shower I have to drive to the flat. On the other hand my bed is in the house and all the cooking etc. is done there. Would the trip to the flat be considered an essential journey in the UK?

Hi Lutz, You could just stop showering and the social distancing would take care of itself!

Seriously, there has been quite a bit of confusion, in my opinion possibly deliberate, but as I read it its the word essential that causes the most confusion. The info on the government website is clear-if you cannot work from home you can go to work-the  essential and key worker descriptions do not affect this-as in the info below;

 

I’m not a critical worker and I can’t work from home. What should I do?

If you cannot work from home then you can still travel to work. This is consistent with the Chief Medical Officer’s advice.

Critical workers are those who can still take their children to school or childcare. This critical worker definition does not affect whether or not you can travel to work – if you are not a critical worker, you may still travel to work provided you cannot work from home.

Anyone who has symptoms or is in a household where someone has symptoms should not go to work and should self-isolate.

6. How can I find out if my work is essential or not?

The government is not saying only people doing “essential” work can go to work. Anyone who cannot work from home can still go to work.

Separately, there is a list of critical workers who can still take their children to school or childcare. Provision has been prioritised for these workers.

Every worker – whether critical or not – should work from home if they can but may otherwise travel to work.

 

On that basis I would say that the journey to do the work  would be OK but maybe  you could walk o the flat to take the shower?!

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2 minutes ago, Allan Guest said:

On that basis I would say that the journey to do the work  would be OK but maybe  you could walk o the flat to take the shower?!

 

Quite apart from the fact that 7 miles is a bit far to walk there and back, I figure that I am a lot less likely to come into close contact with any other person by driving there than walking. Besides, the time that I am exposed to the outside world is a lot less, too.

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Posted (edited)

You need to be careful when walking.  My wife's mate is in hospital because whilst avoiding others on the pavement, he stepped back, missed the kerb and smashed the back of his head when he fell. 

He ended up being carted to hospital in an ambulance and is now using up a valuable space. :(

 

(TBH hospital is the last place I'd want to be at the moment)

Edited by matelodave
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3 minutes ago, Lutz said:

 

Quite apart from the fact that 7 miles is a bit far to walk there and back, I figure that I am a lot less likely to come into close contact with any other person by driving there than walking. Besides, the time that I am exposed to the outside world is a lot less, too.

Hi Lutz, it was a joke-sorry if it was not clear.

My main point is that many are arguing over what is 'essential' yet the government website makes clear this is not a criteria if you cannot work from home.

My brother in law was told that he would have no work as his firm believed that they did not do 'essential' work. These decisions, based on what appears to be a misunderstanding ,are likely to be tested when things start to get harder.

 

Having said all that it does appear that the majority of people are complying with the 'guidance' and limiting trips away from home to a minimum. 

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I think you could drive there once a week.  On other days you would have to flannel wash.  You should get the bathroom back in service ASAP.  Take some photos of the unusable bathroom with you in case you are stopped.  When did you start work on your bathroom?

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We drove from the tunnel to home towing the van, 500 miles, a few days  ago and never got stopped.

 

Reading the rules here returning home is not listed as essential.

 

Ian

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26 minutes ago, IanV8 said:

We drove from the tunnel to home towing the van, 500 miles, a few days  ago and never got stopped.

Reading the rules here returning home is not listed as essential.

Ian

I believe that people returning home from a holiday is a perfectly acceptable reason to be on the road, as we have all been told to go home and stay there. Many have effectively been evicted from abroad and we have read several examples of our members here being affected by this. 

Taking your caravan out again once home would be a, "no no" though.

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On 31/03/2020 at 09:02, Durbanite said:

My vehicle needs a repair, but it will need to wait until this crisis has passed on. 

Durbanite,

I am in the same boat regarding a motorhome repair. I have made a temporary repair allowing it to be driven safely to the service centre once travel restrictions are lifted - but it ain't going anywhere until it is safe to do so.

3 hours ago, kelper said:

I think you could drive there once a week. 

The important word in that reply is, "think". If there is any doubt, then I would err on the side of caution and not go anywhere that is not clearly "essential". If something si not specifically permitted, at the moment I would not consider going for a shower to be essential.

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5 hours ago, kelper said:

I think you could drive there once a week.  On other days you would have to flannel wash.  You should get the bathroom back in service ASAP.  Take some photos of the unusable bathroom with you in case you are stopped.  When did you start work on your bathroom?

 

Judging by contradicting replies to my question my predicament seems to be grey area. Fortunately it doesn't apply to me because the restrictions here in Germany are less stringent. Apart from the need to maintain social distancing, not allowing gatherings of more than 2 people who are not part of the family, and shops, restaurants, etc. having to be closed, all other measures are only recommendations left to sensible personal judgment. As a result I can commute between house and flat as often as I like so long as I maintain social distancing.

 

Just as a note on the side, Germany has about two and a half times the number of confirmed cases compared with the UK but only a third of the mortalities. One does wonder why this is.

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TBH I think that if you really have to ask the question then you've got a pretty good idea of what the answer is (or should be) but you are hoping that others will agree with your interpretation.

 

I think most of us would be aware of the spirit with which the rule or law was drafted and intended but some hope they can stretch it a bit  and justify it by either applying a very strict or very loose interpretation of the specific letter of the law - that's what jobsworths do.

 

Just my opinion you understand

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17 minutes ago, Lutz said:

 

Judging by contradicting replies to my question my predicament seems to be grey area. Fortunately it doesn't apply to me because the restrictions here in Germany are less stringent. Apart from the need to maintain social distancing, not allowing gatherings of more than 2 people who are not part of the family, and shops, restaurants, etc. having to be closed, all other measures are only recommendations left to sensible personal judgment. As a result I can commute between house and flat as often as I like so long as I maintain social distancing.

 

Just as a note on the side, Germany has about two and a half times the number of confirmed cases compared with the UK but only a third of the mortalities. One does wonder why this is.

Simples,  The UK is ONLY testing suspected cases admitted to hospital at the moment.  

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16 minutes ago, Lutz said:

 

Just as a note on the side, Germany has about two and a half times the number of confirmed cases compared with the UK but only a third of the mortalities. One does wonder why this is.

I believe the 2 countries have very different testing criteria. I think in UK the only people tested were those taken to hospital with symptoms. On the news it said Germany were testing people who had been in contact with someone with symptoms. 

 

The UK are currently changing testing criteria to include front line nhs staff so stats will change

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Lutz said:

Just out of interest (it doesn't affect me because here in Germany because we don't have the same restrictions as in the UK) I would like to know what my position would be if I lived in the UK.

 

I have a house and a flat, which are about 7 miles apart. I am currently redecorating the bathroom so it is not usable at the moment. In order to be able to take a shower I have to drive to the flat. On the other hand my bed is in the house and all the cooking etc. is done there. Would the trip to the flat be considered an essential journey in the UK?

You can think up as many hypothetical situations as you wish but for what purpose?

IF you were in the UK making this journey and IF you were stopped and IF your explanation was not accepted by the Police you may be fined. IF you contest the fine the Court would decide whether your short journey for personal hygiene purposes was essential or not.

IF you were in the Philippines you might simply be shot for being outside your house.

Edited by Legal Eagle
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Worse than the fine, every time you go out you risk coming in to contact with the virus and the potential consequences of that. This alone should be enough to make people only go out when there is no other choice.

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