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joanie

Lithium Leisure Battery

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OH was just looking through the latest cc magazine and came across an advert for Lifos lithium batteries, they are not cheap but is this the way things are going, plus is anyone already using one?

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I saw that item too.

Weight savings and performance are great but at about 6 or 7 times the cost of a more conventional battery I think I'll wait until prices come down.

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I m still waiting for more feedback from people that are happy . I know of one person that installed 2 lithiums and has now changed to AGM batteries .

 

 

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave

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There is a guy on YouTube that installed 2 lithium batteries into his motorhome, he ended going back to lead acid because of issues , I didn't pay any real attention when I watched it so not sure why

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We have a member "Bobajob63" who  went 100%  Lithium one or two years back. I seem to recall he did a video on them for Road Pro the supplier. A dual battery set up with dedicated charger and special solar cell controller, a massive  up front cost.

I can't find any feedback if the set up worked as well as he claimed it would, and we are well short of knowing it achieved the 25 year life he was suggesting as a big plus balancing that massive up front investment.

 

I can't get the mathematics to anywhere match the cost savings claims being made back then.

 

 

Edited by JTQ

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I've looked at some options, the weight advantage of lithium batteries appeals to me very much, to a slightly lesser extent the discharge - recharge attributes are also very appealing, if money was not a major consideration then I would have LiFePO4's now.

 

I know someone who bought Lithium Ion batteries and thought they were the same as Lithium Phosphate (LiFePO4), he spent an awful lot of money and is now very disappointed as he could have had LiFePo4's for the same money had he done his homework.

 

If my existing lead acid battery gives me another 5 years, I expect more as I look after my batteries,  it will be intersesting to see what the cost of Lithium batteries are  in 5 years time.

 

If there is not a significant reduction by then I will probably purchase another lead acid battery at not much more than £130 or so, that's as far ahead as I care to think about at this time.

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I would think batteries will greatly improved Kw per kg  in about 5 years with the billions of investment in electric vehicle batteries and prices drop as more suppliers .

 

 

 

Dave

 

 

 

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I went through the online magazine for Feb and didn't see any such batteries advertised 

 

Can you post any links, prices, specs etc?

Actually there's another thread just started with all the detail so please ignore my request...

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Boat is getting two 92Ah trojan trillium this summer. Caravan still has a good battery and at the moment I'm not changing it for a LiFePO4 battery.

 

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Shame that the carbon fibre batteries manufactured in this neck of the woods are no longer available, the company having ceased trading. They lasted 7 years, guaranteed for 5, and were much lighter than lead acid. They retailed at about £120.

Edited by MalH

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15 hours ago, PandR said:

I went through the online magazine for Feb and didn't see any such batteries advertised

 

March issue page 79,   

 

The above posts  have similar views to my OH, looks good  apart from the price, but he said , not for now but something to keep in mind for the future

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19 hours ago, MalH said:

Shame that the carbon fibre batteries manufactured in this neck of the woods are no longer available, the company having ceased trading. They lasted 7 years, guaranteed for 5, and were much lighter than lead acid. They retailed at about £120.

I assume this one ?

 

Battery

 

His customer service was legendary.   I thought the batteries were actually made in the Far East.  

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1 hour ago, fred said:

I assume this one ?

 

Battery

 

His customer service was legendary.   I thought the batteries were actually made in the Far East.  

I still have one of those, it is not as good as it used to be, but if I need a back up when off grid it gets me through a day and night with tv and fan heating etc, and has enough left to power the motor mover.

It gets a charge on my return journey so still able to use the motor mover when I arrive  home, wouldn't like to try pushing my luck getting much more than 36 hours off grid though.

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1 hour ago, fred said:

I assume this one ?

 

Battery

 

His customer service was legendary.   I thought the batteries were actually made in the Far East.  

 

They were based in Ellesmere Port if I remember.  I bought one.  The sent the larger one than I had ordered but it would not fit in the battery box.  The hassle I had getting them to change it was ridiculous.  Then it did not last long.  I wrote it off as a bad experience.

 

John

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GI grew up in Ellesmere Port.  I think the address was Neston.  Which while technically part of Borough of Ellesmere Port and Neston. People from Neston get quite upset if you say they come from the Port🤫

Edited by fred
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IMO unless you really have a desperate need for Lithium or even AGM then a normal leisure battery will do the job at a reasonable price. I dont believe that paying twice as much would give me a battery that would last twice as long

 

I've been buying standard batteries for my boat and caravan for over 30 years and they've all lasted around 7-8 years by being looked after and not letting them go flat. My present van battery was fitted in 2011 as is still capable of heaving the van up and down our 25m drive although I suspect that it's getting a bit long in the tooth and might not last much longer.

 

As I've said I used to be in the telecoms industry and even very expensive batteries would be destroyed or end u with a very short life if not looked after correctly. Proper lead exchange batteries could last for over 25 years but the more recent VRLA had life of not much more than 10-12 years and they were not cycled or deeply discharged.

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1 hour ago, fred said:

GI grew up in Ellesmere Port.  I think the address was Neston.  Which while technically part of Borough of Ellesmere Port and Neston. People from Neston get quite upset if you say they come from the Port🤫

 

I am well familiar with both and there is a world of difference between the two.  Used to spend days  up the road at Thurstaston when I should have been at school,  I did not know that Neston was an Ellesmere Port address though.  I thought people from Ellesmere Port liked to say they were from Chester!:)

 

(Sorry Martyn, I know you will read this, it's just a joke).

 

John

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There used to be be almost no road signs to Ellesmere Port it was like it didn’t exist.  So people including my parents used to say near,  Chester.   My Grandfather actually had an Ellesmere Port accent something that is long extinct. 

 

Back on subject, apart from the cost of Lithium , there is also question of what adaptions need to be made to the charging systems, to make them suitable for lithium. 

Edited by fred
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36 minutes ago, JCloughie said:

 

I am well familiar with both and there is a world of difference between the two.  Used to spend days  up the road at Thurstaston when I should have been at school,  I did not know that Neston was an Ellesmere Port address though.  I thought people from Ellesmere Port liked to say they were from Chester!:)

 

(Sorry Martyn, I know you will read this, it's just a joke).

 

John

I know John no offence taken bit like people from your neck of the woods and like to say they live in the cotswolds and neighbours of prince Charles. Ha ha from the Port and proud of it.

Edited by lunarsorentoman
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50 minutes ago, JCloughie said:

I did not know that Neston was an Ellesmere Port address though. 

The Council was Neston and Ellesmere Port Borough Council abolished in 2009 and now part of Cheshire West and Chester Council

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51 minutes ago, lunarsorentoman said:

I know John no offence taken bit like people from your neck of the woods and like to say they live in the cotswolds and neighbours of prince Charles. Ha ha from the Port and proud of it.


At first you were a posh lad from Stoneycroft, who then thought they were actually in Tuebrook, until the council put the signs up and we were downgraded to Norris Green.  You are used to roughing it!🤗

 

Gloucester, capitol of the Cotswolds. 🥴

 

John

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On 25/02/2020 at 15:39, joanie said:

OH was just looking through the latest cc magazine and came across an advert for Lifos lithium batteries, they are not cheap but is this the way things are going, plus is anyone already using one?

Yes. I've just last week brought a Powerxtreme X20 with inbuilt charger.

My use is probably different to yours but will help where I can. I also have a Sterling Wildside which has a lithium setting.

What would you like to know?

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Interesting when you disect the manufacturers blurb......

 

The traditional batteries may never be discharged under a 60% of it’s capacity.

Well Ive always been told 50% rather than 60%

 

EmergoPlus has a solution for all these problems: PowerXtreme, LiFePO4 lithium leisure batteries.

All 1 of them?

 

The PowerXtreme batteries are ultra lightweight batteries with extreme power that will never let you down.

Really? thats an interesting statement. The going rate generally for people offgrid will be 110a mp/hr battery, that will give a usable 55 amp/hr. The battery theyre talking about here is 20 amp/hr, or even the X30 at 30 amp/hr I suspect it will most definitely let you down if you rely on 55 amp/hr usable.

 

When compared to a similar lead-acid battery of 20 kg’s the PowerXtreme X30 weighs less than 3 bottles of water: 5,6 kg’s and can be used for the full 100% without being damaged or getting lazy.

On the website it states the weight is 10Kg, assuming it is 5.6 Kg there is a substantial payload saving

 

The battery comes with a built-in charger and is not only very light in weight but also compact, easy to carry and will fit perfectly in any battery compartment.

Smaller battery because it is much smaller in capacity too, built in charger does that fir with all caravan and car charging systems?

 

The price may seem steep but when considering it’s lifespan; it is 3 to 4 times longer then that of a regular battery; you may call it a sound investment.

LOL really, how so?  A good quality leisure battery costs around £90 and in all likelyhood will last around 5 years, the powerxtreme battery is 4 times that amount and I seriously doubt it will last 20 years. The sound investment really isnt that at all, its a gamble and one that should be considered very carefully especially with the much lower capacities involved.

 

For most people the battery will last the rest of their caravanning life; it is now one of the items you will take along into a new caravan.

Well in some cases that may be true but in many xcases it wont, people will have more than 20 years caravanning life left in them assuming tow vehicles are still around in 20 years. Technology will also develop during that 20 years that will provide much cheaper, lighter and more powerful solutions to the caravan power source.

 

The PowerXtreme is suitable for every type of mover and the X30 can also be used as an on-board battery too.

The thread started discussion about the X20, this final statement kind of states the X20 isnt suitable as an on board battery?

 

It seems to me that it isnt really a solution yet, it's getting but there is a way to go, you really should consider very carefully your capacity requirements before making this relatively large investment that doesnt produce any savings other than some weight.

 

 

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2 hours ago, AJGalaxy2012 said:

Interesting when you disect the manufacturers blurb......

 

The traditional batteries may never be discharged under a 60% of it’s capacity.

Well Ive always been told 50% rather than 60%

 

EmergoPlus has a solution for all these problems: PowerXtreme, LiFePO4 lithium leisure batteries.

All 1 of them?

 

The PowerXtreme batteries are ultra lightweight batteries with extreme power that will never let you down.

Really? thats an interesting statement. The going rate generally for people offgrid will be 110a mp/hr battery, that will give a usable 55 amp/hr. The battery theyre talking about here is 20 amp/hr, or even the X30 at 30 amp/hr I suspect it will most definitely let you down if you rely on 55 amp/hr usable.

 

When compared to a similar lead-acid battery of 20 kg’s the PowerXtreme X30 weighs less than 3 bottles of water: 5,6 kg’s and can be used for the full 100% without being damaged or getting lazy.

On the website it states the weight is 10Kg, assuming it is 5.6 Kg there is a substantial payload saving

 

The battery comes with a built-in charger and is not only very light in weight but also compact, easy to carry and will fit perfectly in any battery compartment.

Smaller battery because it is much smaller in capacity too, built in charger does that fir with all caravan and car charging systems?

 

The price may seem steep but when considering it’s lifespan; it is 3 to 4 times longer then that of a regular battery; you may call it a sound investment.

LOL really, how so?  A good quality leisure battery costs around £90 and in all likelyhood will last around 5 years, the powerxtreme battery is 4 times that amount and I seriously doubt it will last 20 years. The sound investment really isnt that at all, its a gamble and one that should be considered very carefully especially with the much lower capacities involved.

 

For most people the battery will last the rest of their caravanning life; it is now one of the items you will take along into a new caravan.

Well in some cases that may be true but in many xcases it wont, people will have more than 20 years caravanning life left in them assuming tow vehicles are still around in 20 years. Technology will also develop during that 20 years that will provide much cheaper, lighter and more powerful solutions to the caravan power source.

 

The PowerXtreme is suitable for every type of mover and the X30 can also be used as an on-board battery too.

The thread started discussion about the X20, this final statement kind of states the X20 isnt suitable as an on board battery?

 

It seems to me that it isnt really a solution yet, it's getting but there is a way to go, you really should consider very carefully your capacity requirements before making this relatively large investment that doesnt produce any savings other than some weight.

 

 

Couple of points to add.

There are  5 batteries in total, X10,20,30,75 and 100.

No you can't use the caravan charger. To get it fully charged anyway and leaving it connected all of the time is not ideal although the BMS will manage the battery.

That will put most off but as it comes with an inbuilt charger it is only a matter of running the three pin power cable into the battery box and to a mains socket. It takes about 4 hours to charge.

 

They were mainly developed for the European market where they only have a battery for a mover so don't need the capacity as some are used for here.

 

My experience so far is that it so had has at least equalled if not surpassed the starter battery I was using. It works for me but won't be for everyone. With my caravans appauling payload every kilo counts and wasted kilos on a battery that is only used for the mover is point less in my opinion.

It all comes down to what you need a battery for, I only need it for the mover and the power essential items such as the fridge and water heater control / pump if the power goes off.

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17 hours ago, fred said:

I assume this one ?

 

Battery

 

His customer service was legendary.   I thought the batteries were actually made in the Far East.  

Legendarily bad - perhaps?

Ten years ago the brand was known as "unamed battery" on this forum.

I suspect that "unamed battery" was automatically substituted for the company's name on the CT Forum.

Some years ago, when Ellesmere Port, known colloqically as "Elly Port," and much of the Wirral had Liverpool postcodes L64/L65 after a deal of lobbying for change Royal Mail changed to CH64/CH65.

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