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conorandlucy

tow limit - what can i pull?

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So i haven't had to work out limits since we bought our current van but I want to confirm what the car can take.  Its a 2014 Skoda superb Hatch.  Possibility of a van uograde if we see something we like at the show tomorrow

 

The plate  on the door has the following numbers

 

       2095

       3895

1.   1070

2.    1030

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The towing limit will be 1800 kg, maybe a little more, but the kerbweight will be much less as the GVW is only 2095 kg.

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3895 is the maximum train weight i.e. car plus trailer

2095 is the GVW

Ergo 3895-2095 = 1800Kg is the maximum trailer weight.

The other two figures are the front and rear axle maximum loads.

Most importantly watch your noseweight - if your Superb has a Westfalia towbar then 90Kg is the maximum.

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Have a look at the car V5C document which will give the car mass in service. It will probably be around 1500 kg given the gross vehicle weight is 2095 kg. Whilst the car can tow 1800 kg, you do not really want to exceed the car mass in service for a caravan's MTPLM, preferably less than this so do not go looking at twin axles. Also if you do not have B+E on your driving licence you are limited to the car gross weight plus caravan MTPLM of 3500 kg, so a caravan up to MTPLM 3500 - 2095 = 1405 kg.

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22 minutes ago, Paul1957 said:

Have a look at the car V5C document which will give the car mass in service. It will probably be around 1500 kg

Not on V5C with all cars. I suspect about 1550. You don't give full car details but try puting details in here https://towcar.info/GB/

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The V5C has the following

 

Mass in Service 1532

Technical permissable max towable mass of the trailer  Braked 1800 unbraked 750

 

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8 minutes ago, conorandlucy said:

The V5C has the following

 

Mass in Service 1532

Technical permissable max towable mass of the trailer  Braked 1800 unbraked 750

 

 

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8 minutes ago, conorandlucy said:

The V5C has the following

 

Mass in Service 1532

Technical permissable max towable mass of the trailer  Braked 1800 unbraked 750

 

 

Well there’s your answer (as explained earlier by Black Grouse)

 

If you are looking at a new caravan the HIGHEST POSSIBLE MTPLM you can be looking at is 1800kg and that is an absolute figure, 1801 Kg is illegal. Remember it’s the maximum PERMITTED weight not the ACTUAL weight you must use (it’s shown on the caravans VIN plate) 

 

Tbe above is of course dependent on you having a B+E licence category, if you have just B then the maximum train weight cannot exceed 3500kg, which will limit your options a bit. 

 

Andy

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Licence aside, the weight being 'towed' is different by the nose weight acting on the towball, assuming it is a positive value.

 

The 'towed' weight is the axle(s) load not the overall weight, the noseweight forms part of the tow vehicle weight

 

So if the unconnected weight is 1800kg with a noseweight of 75kg then only 1725kg is being towed,

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42 minutes ago, Griff said:

Licence aside, the weight being 'towed' is different by the nose weight acting on the towball, assuming it is a positive value.

 

The 'towed' weight is the axle(s) load not the overall weight, the noseweight forms part of the tow vehicle weight

 

So if the unconnected weight is 1800kg with a noseweight of 75kg then only 1725kg is being towed,

 

Dont add confusion to the weights issue. The maximum train weight permitted is exactly that the combined MAXIMUM weights of tow car and trailer. It matters not if some of the weight is borne by the towhitch. It is the MTPLM of the caravan, when it is not connected to the towing vehicle that counts. 

 

Andy

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Stick to Andy's advice; perfect. Great tow car apparently.

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To be legal I always thought that it was the actual weights of the caravan and car that needed to be within the cars plated weights. For licencing purposes (B vs B+E) it is the plated maximums of both vehicles.

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The legal limits have been outlined in the previous posts above.  Now, what do folk think can be towed safely?

 I wouldn't want to tow above 1500kg with your car.  But that's just my personal instinct kicking in!

 

John.

Quote

 

 

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Exactly my thoughts as well John.

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Every tow car test i seen has rated it as a superb towcar and I would be happy to tow 1500 with a superb.

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Tow 1500kg or less would be my choice.

This figure also meets the advice of 5 to 7% nose weight of MTPLM.

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3 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

Dont add confusion to the weights issue. The maximum train weight permitted is exactly that the combined MAXIMUM weights of tow car and trailer. It matters not if some of the weight is borne by the towhitch. It is the MTPLM of the caravan, when it is not connected to the towing vehicle that counts. 

 

Andy

 

Now I'm afraid you are adding to the confusion. Maximum train weight is NOT the sum of maximum weight of the towcar and that of the trailer. It is the sum of all axle loads. Therefore the train weight is the GVW of the towcar plus the AXLE load of the trailer/caravan.

Of course, the MTPLM of the caravan also counts, but then you can't add the GVW of the car to work out the train weight.

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1 hour ago, AndersG said:

Every tow car test i seen has rated it as a superb towcar and I would be happy to tow 1500 with a superb.

I think that the OP probably already does although I am not certain of that.

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1 hour ago, Lutz said:

 

Now I'm afraid you are adding to the confusion. Maximum train weight is NOT the sum of maximum weight of the towcar and that of the trailer. It is the sum of all axle loads. Therefore the train weight is the GVW of the towcar plus the AXLE load of the trailer/caravan.

Of course, the MTPLM of the caravan also counts, but then you can't add the GVW of the car to work out the train weight.

 

 

You cannot subtract the nose weight from a caravans MTPLM 

 

The MTPLM of the caravan is the maximum weight IT can be when it is weighed ON ITS OWN and not connected to any towing vehicle. Axle weights are an entirely different matter.  As are nose weights.,

 

For example if you have a B only licence you can only drive a combined unit on the road where the maximum train weight (the weight of both car and caravan) does not exceed 3500kg.  So you could have a car whose max plated weight is 2000 kg and a caravan with a MTPLM of 1500kg which when combined come to 3500kg It matters not (ignoring axle weights for a minute) if the caravan imposes 75kg or 750kg (hypothetical figures to demonstrate a point) on the towing vehicle, the combined weight, of both, when coupled up, cannot exceed 3500kg.

 

If it is suspected that a caravan weighs more than its MTPLM then it is disconnected from its towing vehicle and weighed on its own to see if, when not attached to anything it doesn’t weigh more than its played MTPLM. 

 

The maximum train weight of any combination is the overall weight of the towing vehicle and trailer when connected and weighed as a whole.

 

As for licence restrictions the combined maximum plated weights of the towing vehicle and trailer cannot exceed 3500kg (for a B only licence holder.) The actual weights are immaterial, it’s the plated weights that are relevant. Nose weights don’t come into BUT an excessive nose weight could well put the permitted rear AXLE weight of the towing vehicle over ITS limit.

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

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The cars quoted kerb weight may not be accurate. Any extras should be added to this, and even then most people who I have come across who have weighed the car, find it is actually heavier to some degree. It probably will not matter, but you need to allow for this if you are near the maximum figure.

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53 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

You cannot subtract the nose weight from a caravans MTPLM 

 

 

But I didn't say that. All I said was that gross train weight is the sum of all axle loads, not the sum of GVW and MTPLM.

 

The gross train weight has no bearing on driving licence requirements. For a Category B licence  it is the sum of the GVW of the car and the MTPLM of the caravan that counts, but that's not the gross train weight.

 

38 minutes ago, Wildwood said:

The cars quoted kerb weight may not be accurate. Any extras should be added to this, and even then most people who I have come across who have weighed the car, find it is actually heavier to some degree. It probably will not matter, but you need to allow for this if you are near the maximum figure.

 

It won't be accurate because kerbweight is not documented anywhere. It is specific to every vehicle so unless it is reference to the VIN it cannot be accurate.

 

Edited by Lutz
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Ahhh, a circuitous discussion about the pedantry of weights, the law and interpretation.

 

To be fair it has been a while.

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3 minutes ago, FrankBullet said:

Ahhh, a circuitous discussion about the pedantry of weights, the law and interpretation.

 

To be fair it has been a while.

And I predict another within four weeks. Ahhhh repetition, deviation and, what was it? 

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Maybe tonight the OP will come back after visiting the NEC and let us know what, if anything, they have decided to buy.

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3 hours ago, Lutz said:

The gross train weight has no bearing on driving licence requirements. For a Category B licence  it is the sum of the GVW of the car and the MTPLM of the caravan that counts, but that's not the gross train weight.

 

 

So what IS the maximum permitted gross train weight ?? 

 

Please see the information on the  Gov. U.K. website. 

 

The relevant section is  paragraph 4 of the Maximum Authorised Mass paragraph right  Here

 

I have cut and pasted the paragraph below and highlighted the important wording, but please feel free to check the website via the above link if you wish! 

 

The plate or sticker may also show a gross train weight (GTW), also sometimes called gross combination weight (GCW). This is the total weight of the tractor unit plus trailer plus load.

 

Now the total PERMITTED weight (which is what the driving licence regs refer to) of the tractor unit plus trailer plus load is arrived at by???

 

Adding the maximum GVW and the MTPLM of the trailer together.  For a cat B licence holder that figure cannot exceed 3500kg. End of. 

 

As someone who has had  nearly 30 years of practical experience of weighing all types and combinations  of vehicles for enforcement purposes, I will leave it for others to decide who out if the two of us is more likely to have an in depth understanding of the wording/terminology used and how it is applied. 

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

Edited by Mr Plodd
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