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Scooby1

bit of reassurance on this combination please.

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1 hour ago, Stevan said:

No, it MUST be the lower of the two!

It is the driver's responsibility to ensure that neither is exceeded.

Fine, but it must be secured from sliding/rolling around.

Sorry quite right I got that backside backwards.

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Hi, I tow a 2000kg Swift Eleagnce Grande 655 with my e350d estate and it tows great, car not without its usual Mercedes faults but along with my previous e350 estate is the best tow car i have had and i have had a few including a discovery 3 back in the day. 

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We used to tow at a near 100% ratio and it was very twitchy. Having said that i kept it for 2 years. My van did not have atc fitted then. The stabiser is designed to prevent a snake and the atc is designed to stop one that has started so you are very safe and all legal - you might just need to tow a bit slower than usual, like i had to.

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Stability is mainly about the noseweight and no heavy items in the overhead lockers.   Snaking nearly always occurs as a  result of poor loading, excessive speed, caravan too heavy for the car. Load it properly with the noseweight as close to 85kg. Heavy objects over the axle on the floor (awning). If the noseweight is too high lighten it by taking stuff out rather than moving stuff behind the axle. 

Edited by Tuningdrew
Typo

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18 minutes ago, Tuningdrew said:

Stability is mainly about the noseweight and no heavy items in the overhead lockers.   Snaking nearly always occurs as a  result of poor loading, excessive speed, caravan too heavy for the car. Load it properly with the noseweight as close to 85kg. Heavy objects over the axle on the floor (awning). If the noseweight is too high lighten it by taking stuff out rather than moving stuff behind the axle. 

If only it were that simple!

There are a number of other factors involved such as tyre stiffness, suspension performance etc.

In addition you mention "excessive" speed, but there is considerable anecdotal evidence to suggest that it is inappropriate speed that is the issue, rather than "excessive" speed and that above a critical speed stability returns.
Unfortunately very little hard evidence has been published, other than to identify relevant factors.

 

Edited by Stevan
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From all the weights you have given I do not think for one minute there will be any problems towing and with self levelling suspension then this helps a lot keeping everything at the right height. It is more the worry of never having towed a caravan before but after a few trips out you will wonder why you worried.

 

When you check the caravan nose weight, use bathroom scales (a previous post said kitchen scales) and I use an axle stand under the caravan hitch set so the caravan is level. When we first collected our Elddis the nose weight was quite low when I checked it back at the storage site. To get it up to about 75 kg (car max) I put a few things in the front locker and the spare wheel inside the caravan at the front. I have a couple of plastic spring loaded expanding bars placed between the benches in front of and behind the wheel that keep it in place.

Edited by Paul1957

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2 hours ago, Stevan said:

If only it were that simple!

There are a number of other factors involved such as tyre stiffness, suspension performance etc.

In addition you mention "excessive" speed, but there is considerable anecdotal evidence to suggest that it is inappropriate speed that is the issue, rather than "excessive" speed and that above a critical speed stability returns.
Unfortunately very little hard evidence has been published, other than to identify relevant factors.

 

Sorry everyone, Obviously got that completely wrong.

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Looking at the weights the ratio is a bit high for a newcomer but with the devices fitted should be reasonable. It is almost impossible to be sure how good a match is until you try it, Jezzerb towed with a combination that should not have worked, but it did for him,and others have towed with far more favourable combinations that were poor. Caution is the best bet but I think you will be safe.

Having said that you are looking at a big outfit to learn on, so do take care, remember the outfit will cut in on bends, particularly slow ones, so take corners a bit wider than you would solo and keep an eye on the mirrors  to get an idea of what happens. You will soon get the hang of it.

I assume you have a B+E licence as otherwise you can tow at that weight.

Heavy items should be loaded towards the middle of the caravan but you may need to move some to adjust the nose weight.

 

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I passed my test back in 1985 ish I have driven 7.5t Lorry's before box and flat beds, as i have said before im no racing driver, I am ,more confident now than before i started this post.

 

Thanks everyone for your input.

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On 10/02/2020 at 16:01, Scooby1 said:

Hi all my Confidence is growing thanks , this is taken from the MB site 

image.png.977ec727b192f6390b904f5b35127491.png

So my kerb weight is higher than i first thought 

Has anyone had a problem with snaking when having the ATC installed?


That looks like the current car which I believe is different to yours 

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Picking the van up this Friday, one possibly silly question does caravan insurance cover while being towed and where can i get good cover. 

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4 minutes ago, Scooby1 said:

Picking the van up this Friday, one possibly silly question does caravan insurance cover while being towed and where can i get good cover. 

 

Your car insurance covers third-party risks while towing (you need to inform them) while caravan insurance covers damage to the caravan itself.

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When i pick the van up what paperwork should come with it, is there anything i need to look out for ? should it have a HPI check done? if not should i request one.

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Never picked the van up yesterday because of the wind, but we are now the proud owner of a 2018 Coachman 565 vip, (what have I done to my family) and we have our first holiday booked over the weekend of Easter . Thanks for all of your comments,  we will not going to disappearing from this forum, hopping to pick her up next Saturday.

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Great News!  and welcome to the fold. 

 

Just remember there is no such such thing as a stupid question, only a fool who doesn’t ask it! So if you are unsure or want advice on anything please post the question. There must be hundreds of years worth of accumulated experience amongst the members of this forum, and we are ALL happy to share our bit of it with you. You will find pretty much the same attitude on site, just remember you  cannot go on any courses to gain experience. 

 

I am sure you will be able to look back when your children are older with great pleasure on all the happy times you had away as a family :D

 

Once you are happy towing get yourself across the France, brilliant country for caravanning, fabulous sites and much cheaper than the U.K. AND they like children.

 

Andy

 

 

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2 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

Great News!  and welcome to the fold. 

 

Just remember there is no such such thing as a stupid question, only a fool who doesn’t ask it! So if you are unsure or want advice on anything please post the question. There must be hundreds of years worth of accumulated experience amongst the members of this forum, and we are ALL happy to share our bit of it with you. You will find pretty much the same attitude on site, just remember you  cannot go on any courses to gain experience. 

I am sure you will be able to look back when your children are older with great pleasure on all the happy times you had away as a family :D

Once you are happy towing get yourself across the France, brilliant country for caravanning, fabulous sites and much cheaper than the U.K. AND they like children.

Andy

:Plus1: 

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I too think we over emphasize the 85% rule. It' a good guide for novice towers maybe but on the continent they tend to work far more with actual laden weights, car vs caravan to work out stability which is far more reliable. 

 

It's quite sensible if you think about it. If I drive a car with a 1700kg kerbweight and a caravan with an MTPLM of 1700kg according to the UK system I am towing at 100% but by the time I have taken the awning out of the van and into the boot, which I always do as I find it easier when we arrive on site, plus added four passengers my car is now in excess of 2000kg and even when we go away for longer periods the caravan never weighs it's full MTPLM even before i remove the awning. 

 

My actual ratio is now below 85%

 

There is a good website which uses this method to establish stability here

 

https://towcar.info/GB/

 

 

with apologies to BristleHound who already linked the site!

 

I do like this site as it uses other factors like nose weight and over hangs etc to determine stability.  

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On ‎29‎/‎02‎/‎2020 at 23:14, Scooby1 said:

Never picked the van up yesterday because of the wind, but we are now the proud owner of a 2018 Coachman 565 vip, (what have I done to my family) and we have our first holiday booked over the weekend of Easter . Thanks for all of your comments,  we will not going to disappearing from this forum, hopping to pick her up next Saturday.

Welcome aboard!

I'm a relative newbie too, having collected our van a couple of weeks ago and ready for our first trip, also at Easter. Just about bought everything for it now, apart from a TV

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As you are bang on the 95%, check if your (proposed) insurance policy has any weight restrictions. My current one has a limit of 95% which I am just under happily.

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7 minutes ago, chrisn7 said:

As you are bang on the 95%, check if your (proposed) insurance policy has any weight restrictions. My current one has a limit of 95% which I am just under happily.

What weights are used for the 95% ?

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Thanks everyone,

 

I have been away working,

 

I am using the MLPTP ? at 1675 but my unladen is 1522 plus i have had a mover fitted so 1500

 

my car is 1780kg  

MPLTP X Car 94%

Unladen X Car 85.5%

 

This is without taking into account of luggage in the car and diesel then me and the family 

People in the car 165kg

luggage for 4         80kg (two weeks away)

Car gross               2025kg

MPLTP  X Car   83%

 

We plan on keeping the van as light as possible, being a E class it has a massive boot, plus the van has alko hitch stabiliser plus the Alko suspension plus the ATC also the car has self leveling suspension as well as some type trailer control    

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On 03/03/2020 at 13:35, Paul1957 said:

What weights are used for the 95% ?

 

The NCC Towing Ratio - car kerbweight and caravan MTPLM

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Mr Plodd

 

We have booked easter weekend away to Hop farm, also may bank holidays near Margate 

we are hopefully going to France/Belgium for a week or so at the end of August , the wife is Polish we have talked about taken 3 week to travel to her parents house next year, it takes me 3 day of driving to get there now stopping with friends on the way. 

Black Grouse

 

NCC ?

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Scooby1 said:

Black Grouse

 

NCC ?

 

National Caravan Council (NCC) - it's the trade body of the caravan industry but it's their definition of Towing Ratio that's used in the 85/100% recommendations

Edited by Black Grouse

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