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Scoobz

2020 Discovery Sport 180 bhp SE diesel.

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On page 1 Logiclee kindly posted a screenshot of JLR’s advice. It very clearly states that on certain LR’s, due to layout of the engine compartment and bodywork the DPF is further away from the exhaust manifold than is ideal  so it doesn’t heat up as quickly as other models where the DPF is closer to the exhaust manifold. DPF’s need to be very hot to operate correctly Therefore their advice (as the people who actually make the things) is that  Disco Sport’s are unsuitably for people who only do  short journeys, pretty unambiguous in my view and I cannot, for the life of me, understand why anyone on this forum would think they know better than JLR (who, just as a reminder, are the people who make the darn things 

 

There is clearly a “bit” of a design flaw here so JLR, by issuing the advice they have, are attempting to minimise any potential “issues” that owners may encounter. 

 

They (JLR) clearly say don’t buy a Disco Sport if you only make short journeys, that would be good enough for most people, but clearly some still like to think they know better! 

 

Andy

 

p.s. Isn’t the internet wonderful? I am actually lying on my hotel bed in Hanoi (Vietnam) as I type this! Nice day, a bit overcast and misty, but 25° still. Off to Halong Bay in the morning for a boat trip, overnight on the boat as well, forecast bright and sunny!!!!

Edited by Mr Plodd
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1 hour ago, Mr Plodd said:

Isn’t the internet wonderful? I am actually lying on my hotel bed in Hanoi (Vietnam) as I type this! Nice day, a bit overcast and misty, but 25° still. Off to Halong Bay in the morning for a boat trip, overnight on the boat as well, forecast bright and sunny!!!!


That will be a clash with my daughter but not by date, she does that cruise is on the 22nd.

 

So far in Borneo, visiting the rain forest their boat could not get into shore as too shallow, they had to wade the last half mile, got herself bitten by a rough nose stingray.  Not too bad, fine the next day when she went to see the orangutans,  one of the main reasons for going there, but they weren’t hungry so did not show.

 

 

 

 

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It's also worth mentioning that there are a few guys over on the Jaguar Forums that are currently battling as they have issues caused by oil dilution or blocked DPF and they are having their warranty claims rejected by JLR.

The ECU apparently logs "Incompatible Journeys" so there's a get out  for JLR.  Some are going down the miss-sold route as the salesman did not disclose the advice at time of purchase.

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3 hours ago, xtrailman said:

Actually no petrol or diesel is best used for short journeys.

 

That's when you should be considering electric.


On the face of it that’s true.  But not something that has suitable for a lot of members on here.  What will they tow with?

 

Comes back to Logiclee’s suggestion that petrol is the way to go.  Problem there for me, and others I would think, is in not changing cars that often.  Good possibility that someone with a E6 diesel stands to loose a substantial sum if they change.

 

Luckily for me anyway, my E5 seems to fit the bill.

 

John

Edited by JCloughie

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2 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

 

They (JLR) clearly say don’t buy a Disco Sport if you only make short journeys,

 

 Just to clarify Andy, they say don't buy a Diesel Disco Sport if you mainly make short journeys.

 

Petrol or Hybrid (More models soon) will be fine.

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The information posted from JLR may well be correct. However JLR and all manufacturers are suffering similar issues with DPF and Oil Dilution. I have a full size Disco5 which is also supposed to suffer the same issues. I only drive short distances normally and have experienced the oil dilution issue. However JLR have been very good and always done free oil and filter changes without issue or cost to me. Furthermore they have now done a software patch which has totally resolved the issue.

At the end of the day if the car is new and under warranty what is the issue, LR certainly look after us.

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That's good!

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16 minutes ago, deputytl said:

 I have a full size Disco5 which is also supposed to suffer the same issues.

 

The Longitudinal D7u Discovery platform does not suffer as badly as the Transverse D8 platform.

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2 hours ago, logiclee said:

It's also worth mentioning that there are a few guys over on the Jaguar Forums that are currently battling as they have issues caused by oil dilution or blocked DPF and they are having their warranty claims rejected by JLR.

The ECU apparently logs "Incompatible Journeys" so there's a get out  for JLR.  Some are going down the miss-sold route as the salesman did not disclose the advice at time of purchase.

 

You have to ask the question, exactly WHO has decided exactly WHAT constitutes an “incompatible journey” don’t you?  Dead easy for JLR to retrospectively programme the ECU at a service so that should it identify a DPF failure/blockage/issue it throws up “Incompatible journey” as the cause, (rather than “P*** poor original vehicle design) thus absolving themselves (JLR) of any liability.

Who can tell if that hasn't already happened!

Who can prove they were NOT told about the technical bulletin as posted on page one of this thread. Virtually impossible to prove a negative isn’t it?

 

The trouble is JLR are a big big company with deep deep pockets and an “image” to protect, so they are never going to simply roll over and admit one of their vehicles isn’t really fit for purpose are they ?? It would damage that  “image” and, more importantly, cost them a fortune in ongoing repairs, or possibly even vehicle replacements.

 

(Think Whirlpool and their dodgy washing machines, I am getting a brand new one to replace a 4 year old “suspect” one! Multiply that by millions and the cost is eye watering. Washing machines are a lot less money than a diesel Disco Sport as well) 

 

Who amongst the purchasers of these particular vehicles has the resources, or time, or expertise  to pursue  them through the the courts to show just how shamefully they are behaving by not accepting they got the initial design of a particular model wrong.  It’s not as if a Disco is a budget vehicle is it? 

 

I wonder if they are having the same “issue” with that particular model in the USA ? And if so what action they are taking or MORE importantly having taken against them. 

 

One thing is for certain, all diesel JLR vehicles are well off my possible future purchase list, and will probably remain so. 

 

Andy

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33 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

You have to ask the question, exactly WHO has decided exactly WHAT constitutes an “incompatible journey” don’t you?  Dead easy for JLR to retrospectively programme the ECU at a service so that should it identify a DPF failure/blockage/issue it throws up “Incompatible journey” as the cause, (rather than “P*** poor original vehicle design) thus absolving themselves (JLR) of any liability.

Who can tell if that hasn't already happened!

Who can prove they were NOT told about the technical bulletin as posted on page one of this thread. Virtually impossible to prove a negative isn’t it?

 

The trouble is JLR are a big big company with deep deep pockets and an “image” to protect, so they are never going to simply roll over and admit one of their vehicles isn’t really fit for purpose are they ?? It would damage that  “image” and, more importantly, cost them a fortune in ongoing repairs, or possibly even vehicle replacements.

 

(Think Whirlpool and their dodgy washing machines, I am getting a brand new one to replace a 4 year old “suspect” one! Multiply that by millions and the cost is eye watering. Washing machines are a lot less money than a diesel Disco Sport as well) 

 

Who amongst the purchasers of these particular vehicles has the resources, or time, or expertise  to pursue  them through the the courts to show just how shamefully they are behaving by not accepting they got the initial design of a particular model wrong.  It’s not as if a Disco is a budget vehicle is it? 

 

I wonder if they are having the same “issue” with that particular model in the USA ? And if so what action they are taking or MORE importantly having taken against them. 

 

One thing is for certain, all diesel JLR vehicles are well off my possible future purchase list, and will probably remain so. 

 

Andy

 

I would think its city driving, crawling in traffic day after day.  

Not something i do much off during my short journeys.

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On 08/02/2020 at 11:14, logiclee said:

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 I was looking for a new car almost 3 years ago, I would have liked another diesel, however the salesman (KIA) advised that a diesel would not suit our style of driving. He told us exactly what is in the summary (section 9) above. We got a petrol instead and are very happy with it. :)

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Isn't this 'wrong kind of journey' thing a bit of a joke.

 

A bit like when the rail companies say 'wrong kind of leaves' on the line.

 

It's a pretty poor show when a vehicle isn't suited to all kinds of driving, and an especially poor show when the sales people know this but don't guide people to the petrol version.

 

I have only ever been asked once by a salesman about the type of driving I do since the advent of DPF's  and from memory he didn't clarify why he was asking.

 

The problem for some is that they may indeed do regular long journey but they equally may have a spell when for whatever reason they only do short journeys over a period of several weeks or months even. To have an (expensive) vehicle that can't cope with that type of scenario is, lets be honest simply ludicrous. To force them to have to do an unnecessary long higher speed journey is a waste of money/resources and not good for the environment either.

 

I had considered a current model used diesel Disco Sport as a future possible tow car but I'm afraid reading that LR bulletin I wouldn't touch one with a very long barge pole.

Edited by The Happy Gnome
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Just now, The Happy Gnome said:

Isn't this 'wrong kind of journey' thing a bit of a joke.

 

A bit like when the rail companies say 'wrong kind of leaves' on the line.

 

It's a pretty poor show when a vehicle isn't suited to all kinds of driving, and an especially poor show when the sales people know this but don't guide people to the petrol version.

 

 

 

No, it's not a joke - some of us have been pointing out that diesel is unsuitable for some usage patterns since Euro 4 was introduced - but Joe Public was always happy to ignore his friendly enthusiast and grasp the latest diesel "bargain" with it's headline high MPG figure.

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16 minutes ago, Black Grouse said:

 

No, it's not a joke - some of us have been pointing out that diesel is unsuitable for some usage patterns since Euro 4 was introduced - but Joe Public was always happy to ignore his friendly enthusiast and grasp the latest diesel "bargain" with it's headline high MPG figure.

 

Indeed - I'm well aware of the issue as I have had diesel vehicles for decades as they are generally very good tow cars.

 

(I just found the labelling of 'wrong kind a journey' a bit daft.)

Edited by The Happy Gnome

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1 hour ago, Black Grouse said:

 

No, it's not a joke - some of us have been pointing out that diesel is unsuitable for some usage patterns since Euro 4 was introduced - but Joe Public was always happy to ignore his friendly enthusiast and grasp the latest diesel "bargain" with it's headline high MPG figure.

 

Indeed both VAG and BMW used to put advisories in their brochures and it was also part of the sales staff's training. 

 

It was certainly in the brochure and discussed with me when I bought a new Passat TDi in 2010, new BMW in 2012 and an Otavia in 2014. Unfortunately when I was buying a new petrol Yeti in 2016 the salesman was trying his best to sell me a diesel even when I told him my wife's short urban driving is not suited to diesel

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1 hour ago, The Happy Gnome said:

 

Indeed - I'm well aware of the issue as I have had diesel vehicles for decades as they are generally very good tow cars.

 

(I just found the labelling of 'wrong kind a journey' a bit daft.)

 

1 minute ago, logiclee said:

 

Indeed both VAG and BMW used to put advisories in their brochures and it was also part of the sales staff's training. 

 

It was certainly in the brochure and discussed with me when I bought a new Passat TDi in 2010, new BMW in 2012 and an Otavia in 2014. Unfortunately when I was buying a new petrol Yeti in 2016 the salesman was trying his best to sell me a diesel even when I told him my wife's short urban driving is not suited to diesel


For new car buyers I have no doubt what you both say is correct.  But for myself, I would venture that that is NOT information which is conveyed in the second hand market.  
 

For my 2013 Volvo.  And for my previous 2015 Ssang Yong, both bought from franchised dealers.  That information was NOT forthcoming.  
 

Having said that they were/are trouble free so far.

 

Not sure how I would tell if my oil was diluting as there is no dipstick.  Suppose I might notice a loss of coolant.

 

John

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11 minutes ago, JCloughie said:

 


For new car buyers I have no doubt what you both say is correct.  But for myself, I would venture that that is NOT information which is conveyed in the second hand market.  
 

For my 2013 Volvo.  And for my previous 2015 Ssang Yong, both bought from franchised dealers.  That information was NOT forthcoming.  
 

Having said that they were/are trouble free so far.

 

Not sure how I would tell if my oil was diluting as there is no dipstick.  Suppose I might notice a loss of coolant.

 

John

 

Its unburnt fuel that dilutes the oil, not coolant.

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5 minutes ago, JCloughie said:

 


For new car buyers I have no doubt what you both say is correct.  But for myself, I would venture that that is NOT information which is conveyed in the second hand market.  
 

For my 2013 Volvo.  And for my previous 2015 Ssang Yong, both bought from franchised dealers.  That information was NOT forthcoming.  
 

Having said that they were/are trouble free so far.

 

Not sure how I would tell if my oil was diluting as there is no dipstick.  Suppose I might notice a loss of coolant.

 

John

 

Agree, I had no discussion about driving style when I bought the XF. It was used as the £48k list new is out of my league.

 

If you have no dipstick and a dpf I would hope the engine management is clever enough and reduces your service schedule.  So in theory instead of say  20k miles in 20 months it may tell you you need a service in 8 months after just a few thousand miles,

On some effected models owners report travelling just a few hundred miles over a few weeks but the service mileage has dropped several thousand miles.

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15 minutes ago, JCloughie said:

 

Not sure how I would tell if my oil was diluting as there is no dipstick.  Suppose I might notice a loss of coolant.

 

John

 

You should see the electronics measure an increase in apparent oil level - which can only mean fuel dilution

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1 hour ago, The Happy Gnome said:

 

Its unburnt fuel that dilutes the oil, not coolant.


OK thanks.

 

John

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19 hours ago, JCloughie said:

Not sure how I would tell if my oil was diluting as there is no dipstick.  Suppose I might notice a loss of coolant.

 I drove a truck which had no easily accessible dipstick, it had a warning lamp which was supposed to light up if the oil level was low. One day I was bored and decided to tilt the cab (20 minute job) and check the oil level manually and found that the supplied dipstick was too short. My transport manager told the garage to fit a dipstick under the bonnet.

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..

Edited by ad210358
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On 12/02/2020 at 06:42, logiclee said:

 

So given that would you  would be happy for the OP to buy his diesel Discovery Sport even though there are widely publicised known issues with oil dilution and JLR themselves ask their own salesmen not to sell Discovery Sport Diesels to low mileage customers who only do short journeys?


Wouldn't advise anyone to buy a late model Disco Sport, older model with the PSA 2.2 yes, but not an Ingenium. 

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Thought I would give a update.But firstly thank you to everyone who has taken the time to contribute to this thread.

After trying out many cars over the last couple of weeks I have decided to go for the Audi Q5 SLine  190ps 2.0 Diesel. Rightly or wrongly I have decided to go for another diesel. I hope I won’t regret my decision but it seems a reliable engine and a great Tow car. Once again thank you for all your input. Regards Scoobz.

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21 hours ago, ad210358 said:


Wouldn't advise anyone to buy a late model Disco Sport, older model with the PSA 2.2 yes, but not an Ingenium. 

 

The PSA/Ford 2.2 is fairly bullet proof.  Fitted across PSA, Ford and JLR, upto 200PS and 450NM in some models with great reliability and performance.

Just lacks a bit of refinement.

 

Also remaps easily and safely to around 235PS, 530NM.

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