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No more Diesel or Petrol cars after 2035.

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1 minute ago, CommanderDave said:

BEV research developing batteries that will charge 200 miles in 5 minutes .

Video worth watching .

 

 

 

The industry understands full well the range/recharge time limitations of presently available EVs and is working hard to overcome them - but no-one knows if/when any of the present research will be available in production form.

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21 minutes ago, CommanderDave said:

BEV research developing batteries that will charge 200 miles in 5 minutes .

Video worth watching .

 

Even a 5 minute charge is a long time if you are at the back of a 4 car queue!

A 50Kwh charge in 5 minutes requires a frighteningly high current at any even remotely safe voltage!

Edited by Stevan
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4 minutes ago, Stevan said:

Even a 5 minute charge is a long time if you are at the back of a 4 car queue!

A 50Kwh charge in 5 minutes requires a frighteningly high current at any even remotely safe voltage!

 

They already have 350 kw rapid charging I read .

 

 

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave

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On 18/02/2020 at 07:41, logiclee said:

I go into Nottingham often.

 

The tram system is great and cheaper than parking in town. I can't remember the last time I drove into the city center.

Even when my wife was in Hospital at QMC I parked out of the City and got the tram in, the hospital has it's own stop.  A full day on the tram costs less than a two hour stay in the hospital car park.

 

These are the projects that should be done and improved across the country before HS2

That’s all well and good for cities, but in many many (even large) towns there is no option but to drive in. Not everyone lives near or has needs to go into cities on a day to day basis. We live next to and (by and large) use an 80,000 population town with no park and ride or tram system ....just a dysfunctional bus service.  It’s going to be a long time before such towns can fund and construct adequate public transport options to cars.

On 18/02/2020 at 07:48, Fat Albert said:

I wish ! My GLC averages about 42 overall solo, and about 23 when towing. 

Me too. My discovery tows at only 55-60% of solo motorway mpg....or in other words the same as it’s Urban mpg.

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12 minutes ago, ericfield said:

That’s all well and good for cities, but in many many (even large) towns there is no option but to drive in. Not everyone lives near or has needs to go into cities on a day to day basis. We live next to and (by and large) use an 80,000 population town with no park and ride or tram system ....just a dysfunctional bus service.  It’s going to be a long time before such towns can fund and construct adequate public transport options to cars.

 

 

Hence my point on where investment needs to go.

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London runs EV buses and also hydrogen buses already .

 

 

Dave

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8 hours ago, CommanderDave said:

London runs EV buses and also hydrogen buses already .

 

 

Dave

An ideal use for an EV. A fixed length journey every day and always returning to a set, off road, parking spot each night, where there can be a charging point.

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2 hours ago, logiclee said:

 

Interesting comment regarding cost per kw, but we have had the same for many years regarding the price we pay at the pumps per ltr when traveling up and down motorways and other roads by the same fuel companies. 

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There is so much confusion and uncertainty still with EVs, not to mention cost, that unless "clean" electricity is used only serves to move the pollution from the road network to a power station, therefore for as long as LPG remains readily  available I will continue to run our Volvo on that. 

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My take on all this:

The future (based on current tech) is electricity and our old friend Hydrogen.

Hydrogen is not really suited as a direct swap for HC fuels in IC engines because the molecular energy is way too low - need to burn a huge amount to get anywhere near HC performance. However H2 fuel cell power is much more promising.

Our electricity generation is such that with the growth of wind generation we will often have spare capacity and need to turn off many wind turbines on windy days and at other times run short on those cold still frosty nights. By using any spare capacity to generate H2 by electrolysis we can now realistically store large amounts of electrically generated energy. We can't assume fusion is around the corner, but if we are serious we have a 100% reliable, 24/7, predictable energy source in the UK - tidal power (remember that high tide isn't at the same time everywhere, so no interruption).

We currently have a nationwide infrastructure - our natural gas network which could easily be adapted to run at first a methane/H2 mix and ultimately pure H2 (would need higher pressure) to power our gas boilers. So the idea of doing away with such infrastructure on new build does seem rather short sighted....

So we can modify existing homes and build new ones using a known system with a mature support network.

Not having to run multi Kw home heating would reduce the load on the electrical supply leaving more room for charging your car.

So:

Yes - announce a ban on single fuel HC cars.

Allow PHEV to continue in the short term for short electric commutes, but able to go distance or work harder when needed.

Develop pure EV and potentially H2 fuel cell tech.

Swap CH4 to H2 in our domestic heating.

(I own a classic car which I would like to drive, not just stare at. Selfish? Given my annual mileage, running it until I die will be less polluting than building an electric replacement).

 

PS

Air source heat pumps are not a viable replacement despite the hype. They take heat from the air, when the air gets very cold their efficiency falls through the floor and running costs rocket when you use them the most. Worse, as they chill the air in damp conditions they can ice up, and go into defrost mode - turning off and using electric heaters to melt the ice (a fact you may not be aware off or had mentioned to you at the point of sale). Fine working in a system with an alternative heat source but not on their own.  Many owners may not be aware of this and it is not something a salesperson will be keen to dwell on....

 

 

Edited by Ukzero

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23 hours ago, Stevan said:

Even a 5 minute charge is a long time if you are at the back of a 4 car queue!

A 50Kwh charge in 5 minutes requires a frighteningly high current at any even remotely safe voltage!

 

You've never queued up at a filling station 🤔

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I read they are installing about 700 new charge points a month . So the infrastructure is growing .

 

 

 

Dave

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23 hours ago, Black Grouse said:

 

 

The industry understands full well the range/recharge time limitations of presently available EVs and is working hard to overcome them - but no-one knows if/when any of the present research will be available in production form.

 

Defo Graphene will be 👇

 

https://enrg.io/tesla-developing-500-mile-graphene-battery/

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There are a lot of small battery development companies that will produce batteries cheaper and force the pricing down .

 

https://enrg.io/elecrtric-car-battery-300-mile-range-5-minute-charging-time-israeli-company/

 

Dave

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6 hours ago, Ukzero said:

Air source heat pumps are not a viable replacement despite the hype. They take heat from the air, when the air gets very cold their efficiency falls through the floor and running costs rocket when you use them the most. Worse, as they chill the air in damp conditions they can ice up, and go into defrost mode - turning off and using electric heaters to melt the ice (a fact you may not be aware off or had mentioned to you at the point of sale). Fine working in a system with an alternative heat source but not on their own.  Many owners may not be aware of this and it is not something a salesperson will be keen to dwell on....

 

 

Well not quite right.

 

Air source heat pumps are less efficient when it gets below zero outside but no worse than 1 to 1, get above zero and anywhere up to 4.5 to 1 is the norm.

They do freeze up as you say but they dont use electric heating elements to defrost they run the heatpump in cooling mode for a short time which heats up the unit outside, melting the ice.

I am well aware of air sourced heatpumps having used them for last 30 years, I also have ground sourced heat pump but that is only used for heating.

 

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19 hours ago, AJGalaxy2012 said:

Well not quite right.

 

Air source heat pumps are less efficient when it gets below zero outside but no worse than 1 to 1, get above zero and anywhere up to 4.5 to 1 is the norm.

They do freeze up as you say but they dont use electric heating elements to defrost they run the heatpump in cooling mode for a short time which heats up the unit outside, melting the ice.

I am well aware of air sourced heatpumps having used them for last 30 years, I also have ground sourced heat pump but that is only used for heating.

 

Point taken about electric elements - that was (as it turns out) an incorrect assumption on my part because my old ASHP would appear to go silent during defrosting (apart from expansion/contraction ticking).

I ditched that unit when electricty/kwh reached 4 times the price of gas/kwh.  Allowing for gas boiler efficiency my ASHP performance curve showed it would cost more than gas heating at anything below 16C ambient temperature - and twice as expensive as gas to run below about 7C, though still less than standard electric heating down to about -2C, true.

Ground source is a much more sensible and predictable option if you can manage the attached major"infrastructure" requirements :-)

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Heat Pumps may have a role to play in non dense housing environments but in cities, where is there a high density apartments and no green spaces, how are they supposed to work when they are most needed?

 

We had one in our place in Florida and when temperatures fell into single figures with high humidity it was hopeless. That's when the 5kw heating element kicked in...

Edited by PandR

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On 24/02/2020 at 10:41, Ukzero said:

Air source heat pumps are not a viable replacement despite the hype. They take heat from the air, when the air gets very cold their efficiency falls through the floor and running costs rocket when you use them the most. Worse, as they chill the air in damp conditions they can ice up, and go into defrost mode - turning off and using electric heaters to melt the ice (a fact you may not be aware off or had mentioned to you at the point of sale). Fine working in a system with an alternative heat source but not on their own.  Many owners may not be aware of this and it is not something a salesperson will be keen to dwell on....

We have one installed and it frosts or freezes over and has to run ton defrost.  I think we use a lot more electric as our bills have really jumped up.

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For those with a LOT of spare time, this is interesting.  It's something that I have been loosely involved in.  Scroll down to the "consumer trial report".  It's a whopping 500-odd pages but it is interesting reading.

 

http://www.electricnation.org.uk/

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My number two son has a business which is involved in Air Source Heat Pumps. His house has no gas available, so he has super insulated the building and  installed a bespoke ASHP system. You have to consider the Annual cost to decide whether it is worth the considerable investment needed. If the system is efficient enough it will generate more than adequate heat for a large house even at ambient temperatures around/below freezing. A lot depends on the thermal insulation of the building and this is the key point with energy management- Its not about creating the same amount of heat. Radically improved insulation and ventilation can be a very good investment when you start with a typical UK building. 

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13 minutes ago, Ern said:

My number two son has a business which is involved in Air Source Heat Pumps. His house has no gas available, so he has super insulated the building and  installed a bespoke ASHP system. You have to consider the Annual cost to decide whether it is worth the considerable investment needed. If the system is efficient enough it will generate more than adequate heat for a large house even at ambient temperatures around/below freezing. A lot depends on the thermal insulation of the building and this is the key point with energy management- Its not about creating the same amount of heat. Radically improved insulation and ventilation can be a very good investment when you start with a typical UK building. 

 

Yes, getting rid of gas in homes and being replaced by heat pumps is only half the story. Insulation is the other half,

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1 hour ago, logiclee said:

 

Yes, getting rid of gas in homes and being replaced by heat pumps is only half the story. Insulation is the other half,


when we move, our 1970’s house doesn’t have any loft insulation and is on LPG! I’ll be fixing the former before the winter otherwise my bank balance will disappear in the latter

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4 hours ago, Durbanite said:

We have one installed and it frosts or freezes over and has to run ton defrost.  I think we use a lot more electric as our bills have really jumped up.

Compared to what?

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