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Wellys and Mac

No more Diesel or Petrol cars after 2035.

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1 hour ago, Paul1957 said:

I have found a similar loss. There is one thing though to consider, when towing we are likely to be driving slower. A better comparison might be solo or towing but at the same speed when it might be towing a caravan doubles the fuel use. In the 1980s I towed a trailer tent with a Maxi and found my fuel consumption reduced which I put down to driving slower, might have been a 50 mph limit then when towing.

 

Yes, I accept the point about speed - if I were to tow a caravan at 70-75, the MPG would be around half that solo - I guess, I've not tried it!

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The speed point probably does explain why I can tow at about two thirds of my normal MPG rather than half it. The power needed to overcome wind resistance doubles with every extra ten mph, so if you went at 70 rather that 60 with the caravan the fuel difference should be quite large. Makes you wonder just what these guys towing at 70 get as fuel consumption.

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46 minutes ago, Wildwood said:

The speed point probably does explain why I can tow at about two thirds of my normal MPG rather than half it. The power needed to overcome wind resistance doubles with every extra ten mph, so if you went at 70 rather that 60 with the caravan the fuel difference should be quite large. Makes you wonder just what these guys towing at 70 get as fuel consumption.

Yes but it's not quite that simple, how the air behaves between the car and caravan makes a big difference. Anything that cause the air to flow over the car and caravan together rather than swirling between can reduce wind resistance, even if this means driving faster!

I once had an outfit where putting bikes on top of the car while towing actually improved mpg. Which is why the once popular windjammer devices sometimes worked.

Aerodynamics is a complex and dark art!

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46 minutes ago, Stevan said:

Yes but it's not quite that simple, how the air behaves between the car and caravan makes a big difference. Anything that cause the air to flow over the car and caravan together rather than swirling between can reduce wind resistance, even if this means driving faster!

I once had an outfit where putting bikes on top of the car while towing actually improved mpg. Which is why the once popular windjammer devices sometimes worked.

Aerodynamics is a complex and dark art!

When I towed with a LWB Sprinter, the caravan only made 2 mpg difference to the journey average, I assume most of the air had been moved out of the way by the van itself, the extra fuel used only overcoming the mechanical friction and bit of it due to the extra mass involved.

 

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Was quite surprised to find that the latest Vauxhall Corsa is available with a diesel engine

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2 minutes ago, Dobloseven said:

Was quite surprised to find that the latest Vauxhall Corsa is available with a diesel engine

 

There's still a profitable market for diesels, not as big as it was but many customers still buy them.

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2 minutes ago, Black Grouse said:

 

There's still a profitable market for diesels, not as big as it was but many customers still buy them.

 Yes, recently bought a diesel Santa Fe.

I'll still buy diesels as long as they're available and the fuel to run them!

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1 minute ago, macquatic said:

 Yes, recently bought a diesel Santa Fe.

I'll still buy diesels as long as they're available and the fuel to run them!

 

Diesel is still the powerplant of choice for big heavy SUVs

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I've not seen any charging points which would have enough space for an attached caravan, so it would have to be detached. 

 

That may change by 2032, of course.

Edited by Will deBeast
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4 hours ago, AJGalaxy2012 said:

When I towed with a LWB Sprinter, the caravan only made 2 mpg difference to the journey average, I assume most of the air had been moved out of the way by the van itself, the extra fuel used only overcoming the mechanical friction and bit of it due to the extra mass involved.

 


I think the aerodynamics of a caravan have a bigger impact than weight and again the impact a caravans aerodynamics have on the overall outfit a huge impact; large frontal area tow car that gets 32mpg solo doing 70mph will probably easily get 25mpg towing at 56mph.

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4 hours ago, Black Grouse said:

 

Diesel is still the powerplant of choice for big heavy SUVs

 

Is it possible to carry on running ICE vehicles ?

 

But how long before ICE vehicles are banned from cities ?

 

Do you think town and cities are going to spend billions on electric buses and taxis and then allow pollution pumping out vehicles in their cities ? 

 

 

Dave

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28 minutes ago, CommanderDave said:

 

Is it possible to carry on running ICE vehicles ?

 

But how long before ICE vehicles are banned from cities ?

 

Do you think town and cities are going to spend billions on electric buses and taxis and then allow pollution pumping out vehicles in their cities ? 

 

 

Dave

 

Anybody that drives into a city needs their bumps feeling.

 

That is what 'park and ride' is for.

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18 minutes ago, The Happy Gnome said:

 

Anybody that drives into a city needs their bumps feeling.

 

That is what 'park and ride' is for.

 

You'll still have future city congestion charges applied to EV's ... Just too many folks with too many cars. #gridlock

 

47 minutes ago, CommanderDave said:

 

Is it possible to carry on running ICE vehicles ?

 

But how long before ICE vehicles are banned from cities ?

 

Do you think town and cities are going to spend billions on electric buses and taxis and then allow pollution pumping out vehicles in their cities ? 

 

 

Dave

 

Manufacturers won't invest in future combustion engine technology and EV's due to the massive cost. Away from legislation it's all about supply and demand & the damand will drop for ICE's .. Take China,  still a massive market for vehicle manufacturers and they're already turning their backs on combustion engine vehicles .

Edited by Silverback

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9 minutes ago, Silverback said:

You'll still have future city congestion charges applied to EV's ... Just too many folks with too many cars. #gridlock

 

 Yes, but im talking now, I avoid driving into cities now where a decent alternative is available, such as electric buses into York, the trams into Sheffield,  and the (elecrtic) Metro into Necastle.

 

 

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52 minutes ago, The Happy Gnome said:

 

Anybody that drives into a city needs their bumps feeling.

 

That is what 'park and ride' is for.

 

All well and good 'IF' there is a park and ride available and it all depends on the purpose of the journey, fine if you're not weighed down by bags etc.

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10 minutes ago, jetA1 said:

 

All well and good 'IF' there is a park and ride available and it all depends on the purpose of the journey, fine if you're not weighed down by bags etc.

 

Yup, which is exactly why I said 'where a decent alternative is available'.

 

Lots of cities and towns now have park and ride BTW. (Even Fowey in Cornwall has one LOL)

 

But as an aside banning cars from city centres will just further nail the coffin down on high streets......but I doubt councils will care about that because most started the rot when charging for parking in towns and cities.

 

Edited by The Happy Gnome

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I go into Nottingham often.

 

The tram system is great and cheaper than parking in town. I can't remember the last time I drove into the city center.

Even when my wife was in Hospital at QMC I parked out of the City and got the tram in, the hospital has it's own stop.  A full day on the tram costs less than a two hour stay in the hospital car park.

 

These are the projects that should be done and improved across the country before HS2

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9 hours ago, FrankBullet said:


I think the aerodynamics of a caravan have a bigger impact than weight and again the impact a caravans aerodynamics have on the overall outfit a huge impact; large frontal area tow car that gets 32mpg solo doing 70mph will probably easily get 25mpg towing at 56mph.

I wish ! My GLC averages about 42 overall solo, and about 23 when towing. 

Edited by Fat Albert

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9 hours ago, CommanderDave said:

 

Is it possible to carry on running ICE vehicles ?

 

But how long before ICE vehicles are banned from cities ?

 

Do you think town and cities are going to spend billions on electric buses and taxis and then allow pollution pumping out vehicles in their cities ? 

 

 

Dave

 

At this point in time, there's no alternative to diesel for medium/large commercial vehicles - if they're banned from a city, that city's economy will simply stop.

 

It seems to me that too many environmental "solutions" focus on people and ignore goods.

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12 minutes ago, Black Grouse said:

 

At this point in time, there's no alternative to diesel for medium/large commercial vehicles - if they're banned from a city, that city's economy will simply stop.

 

It seems to me that too many environmental "solutions" focus on people and ignore goods.

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, CommanderDave said:

 

Is it possible to carry on running ICE vehicles ?

 

But how long before ICE vehicles are banned from cities ?

 

Do you think town and cities are going to spend billions on electric buses and taxis and then allow pollution pumping out vehicles in their cities ? 

 

 

Dave

Yes, it is possible to keep running ICE vehicles, at present none of the alternatives work for all vehicles and all journeys.

 

Some towns and cities will ban ICE vehicles, but will probably reverse the ban after a year or so when they see the impact on trade.

Since when did cities spend money on busses and taxis? They expect the operators to spend the money.

9 hours ago, The Happy Gnome said:

 

Anybody that drives into a city needs their bumps feeling.

 

That is what 'park and ride' is for.

I treat a "Park and ride" sign as  meaning "Go way" so I do! Has not failed me so far!

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You could see bans on motorways as they are high areas for emissions like Germany we could start to follow . Like the M25 the orbital car park round London .

https://www.dw.com/en/german-court-bans-diesel-vehicles-on-key-autobahn/a-46317300

I don't think the rise of the EV is far away not as  much 15 years .

 

 

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave
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22 hours ago, GaryB1969 said:

As I mentioned previously, three phase supplies are now being discussed for new properties to help with system load balancing and the use of better chargers, but the one point that is being danced around is the fact that at present, household EV's tend to be only one car.  Seeing as most households have at least TWO cars there might be a future point reached where multiple charging points are needed.  This is creating a problem.

 

The only real solution is a complete mind-set shift over cars and transport needs, but most folk (me included) simply cannot comprehend life without the convenience of the I.C.E sitting in the drive.

 

EV's are coming.  Change will be forced upon us.  No-one knows all the details because they still haven't been decided on.  All we can do is keep our eyes and ears open because we cannot change the direction of the path that is being followed.

You don’t need 3ph at home for load balancing, it’s already out there with OHME and OVO energy suppliers with their BEV home charging systems that are 1ph 6Kw, also internet connected and respond within seconds looking at the grid fluctuations between high and low demand, the charger ramps up or down accordingly, or you can just set it to charge at grid low demand and overcapacity.

 

You have to sign up with an energy supplier who supports this, as this also reflects in the cost you pay per unit, sometimes it goes negative and they pay you back to charge when the grid gets close to overcapacity.

 

Indra via OVO energy also have a home V2G unit (vehicle to grid) This connects via the CHAdeMO socket on the car which is direct DC to the cars traction battery (via a handshake protocol) This connection now becomes bidirectional, and as per the smart chargers are internet connected and constantly look at the highs and lows in the grid.

 

On the V2G system the charge algorithm will take power from your traction battery at high demands (to a minimum charge level you set) and charge back at low demand to harmonise the grid, the same as the Tesla home Powerwall. The difference is the cars traction battery becomes the home powerwall so you don’t need to buy the Tesla unit at over 7k, but you still get the benefit of buying in at 15 pence per Kwh and selling at 30 pence per Kwh.

 

OVO energy have a government sponsored V2G trial running at the moment where you get the charger and installation free, plus the Kwh rates above. The caveat is you have to have a Nissan Leaf (30kwh traction battery or above) Subscribe to OVO energy and have the charger positioned within a reasonable distance to your consumer unit. Nissan are also partners in the scheme so there is no infringement of Nissan’s 8 year traction battery guarantee.

 

These are the golden years of BEV ownership, zero road tax, cheap charging or sometimes free (I charge at work for free) No oil and filter, cambelts, dual mass flywheels or clutches to worry about, just tyres and brake pads (brake pad wear is greatly reduced with regen) The low running costs of BEV ownership won't last forever due to lost revenue from fuel duty and road tax, but it's a great incentive to get it moving. 

 

We still have and love our diesel for dragging the van and long trips, but our BEV fits perfectly for the daily commute and local runs. BEV ownership is not for everyone but we can’t stop it happening, the plus will be the rollout of home V2G as in the short term it will keep the grid running and harmonised without massif upgrades.             

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Hello, I'm new here - got to jump in somewhere, so here I am......

 

As a 60 year old, I'm ignoring Electric altogether, (at least for a good few years). If I I get to to 2035, one must assume non electric cars will be sold up until then?...............presumably will a guarantee of fuel, for the effective life of my new 2035 deisel SUV.....otherwise "they ain't going to sell many!" ................say 10/15 years min? So diesel will be available until 2050?! By then my rig will probably be an electric scooter.......tootling down the high street, dribbling,  to collect my shopping, so I guess I will end up in and electric vehicle eventually!!

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BEV research developing batteries that will charge 200 miles in 5 minutes .

Video worth watching .

 

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