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Wellys and Mac

No more Diesel or Petrol cars after 2035.

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20 hours ago, Black Grouse said:

 

Switch to electric locos.

Would anyone bother with preserved railways if they were not steam powered?

But this actually raises the question of carbon footprint of all leisure activities, from the emissions of racing cars to those of transporting fans to football matches.

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11 minutes ago, Eirrab said:

We had a power cut on our estate earlier in the week.  About 800 houses were off for until mid evening but about 120 were off until the morning of the following day.   I know at least two people that have BEV’s in the badly effected area and  noticed they were both still on the drive when I walked to get my paper the following morning. 

 

Our electric power is supplied overhead which is always going to be less reliable, about 1/3 of our village has been supplied by a generator since Tuesday just gone.

 

In the past 2 weeks we've had 4 power cuts. 1 was Ciara related, 2 before that were cuts because "that's what happens around here" and the most recent one was caused by the generator running out of fuel :lol:

 

We've had about a dozen cuts in the 18 months we've lived here which is nothing out of the ordinary according to the neighbours.  I'm very close to buying my own generator.

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I work in fuel and I've been working in Saudi this last week and have heard some interesting comments.  In our daily lives our cars are the most obvious target of "anti fossil fuel" sentiment. However, there is a massive consumption (directly and indirectly) of oil derived fuels elsewhere in our lives which is going to take much longer to adapt to alternative fuel sources than cars, so fossil based fuel production is still going to be around for decades to come. 

 

No doubt as time goes by our consumption of fossil fuels will reduce and the industry has to take a view on how it will adapt. We are seeing high street names such as Shell and BP taking their first steps into being involved in the fuel supply to EV's  and no doubt other initiatives will come along in the fullness of time causing some oil names to diversify and move into alternate energy markets. However as some players start downscale or even leave the market there are likely to other players who will take "last man standing" view. Fossil fuels will be around for many years yet.

 

   

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12 minutes ago, jetA1 said:

 

... and the most recent one was caused by the generator running out of fuel :lol:

 

 

I installed a backup generator for a major computer suite.

 

Testing was fine.  But when we had a real power cut three months later, the generator didn't start.  It turned out the computer manager had had the battery fail on his car, and he'd "borrowed" the starter battery from the generator!!!

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4 hours ago, Stevan said:

There is no doubt that electric cars are absolutely great if your driving pattern is a good match for the car's capabilities.

Unfortunately that is not the case for many people!

If you do not drive far enough the cost per mile saving on fuel will never cover the extra capital outlay on the battery.

Although there are charging points in existence, when on a longer journey do you want, or are you able to, plan your journey to fit in with the charging points? You may be happy with a 20 minute re-charge, but what about when you need to queue?

What do you do if there is not a charging point near your destination?

The cost of an EV is a lot to stake on a bet that the right number of charging points will be built where you are going to want them.

 

I expect it will require a different approach to motoring and may no longer be the convenience of jumping in your car and driving wherever you want, without thought. 

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5 minutes ago, LeadFarmer said:

 

I expect it will require a different approach to motoring and may no longer be the convenience of jumping in your car and driving wherever you want, without thought. 

Backward step to me :unsure:

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14 minutes ago, LeadFarmer said:

 

I expect it will require a different approach to motoring and may no longer be the convenience of jumping in your car and driving wherever you want, without thought. 

To some extent for us it’s already self regulating.

We no longer go out at weekends around here...there’s so much traffic it’s no longer a pleasure driving amongst it.

 

Shopping  is done early morning or late evening...or it waits till we are desperate for something. It’s amazing how much mileage=fuel, you can save when external circumstances influence your desire to jump in the car.

 

 

 

 

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I've mentioned this before, methinks.

What about ocean going container ships? these ships bring the world the prosperity derived through trade.

They use 200liters/minute of fuel oil. In addition they use vast amounts of sump oil and cylinder oil.

Given China to Suez is 14days steaming at 23Knots (approx.) there simply isn't anything to replace them.

They use 500cst fuel oil and emit vast amount of exhaust gasses. 

Without oil how does the world function? This is much much more than a small island nation (UK) using EV's.

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6 minutes ago, Tradewinds said:

I've mentioned this before, methinks.

What about ocean going container ships? these ships bring the world the prosperity derived through trade.

They use 200liters/minute of fuel oil. In addition they use vast amounts of sump oil and cylinder oil.

Given China to Suez is 14days steaming at 23Knots (approx.) there simply isn't anything to replace them.

They use 500cst fuel oil and emit vast amount of exhaust gasses. 

Without oil how does the world function? This is much much more than a small island nation (UK) using EV's.

I understand that because of the vast weight and volume that they carry, they are actually the most energy efficient form of transport.

Compare one ship carrying 200+ containers taking a relatively direct route with the same number of HGVs taking a tortuous road route.

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2 hours ago, kiaboy said:

Backward step to me :unsure:

 

I don’t think it’s ever supposed to have been a forward step, more a case of necessity. 

Edited by LeadFarmer

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21 hours ago, Ern said:

I think carbon trading is an absolute scam. People who don't give a damn about the world but are wealthy enough to pretend to do so, pay money to enable their continued high carbon life style. By doing so the cost of carbon trading goes up.

Someone makes a pile of money, whilst someone else has to pay the real cost. It will not reduce their carbon foot print.

 

The Capacity Market and Carbon trading has made a lot of people very rich. It has achieved it's goal in the UK of getting rid of coal and meeting CO2 targets.

 

Who's paid in reality? Energy consumers. ie Us.

 

What we have done so far has been expensive.  The next step is to get rid of Gas generation and that's a lot more difficult and a lot more expensive than getting rid of coal.

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1 hour ago, LeadFarmer said:

 

I don’t think it’s ever supposed to have been a forward step, more a case of necessity. 


Isn’t there something about necessity being the mother of all invention - the paradigm shift to non ICE will drive the next generation of innovation, it won’t be old fogies like me (I’m 42), it will be my ten year old sons generation who will drive it (literally and metaphorically)

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6 hours ago, kiaboy said:

Backward step to me :unsure:

Why?

The charging points will increase in number, it is possible to fuel electric cars with 'green' energy, energy isnt wasted when slowing down, emissions are zero at the point of use, and you think it's a step backwards? really?

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51 minutes ago, AJGalaxy2012 said:

Why?

The charging points will increase in number, it is possible to fuel electric cars with 'green' energy, energy isnt wasted when slowing down, emissions are zero at the point of use, and you think it's a step backwards? really?

Zero emissions? How do you think that? 🙄

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10 minutes ago, kiaboy said:

Zero emissions? How do you think that? 🙄

 

The words used were "emissions are zero at point of use" - that can't be disputed.

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5 hours ago, Stevan said:

I understand that because of the vast weight and volume that they carry, they are actually the most energy efficient form of transport.

Compare one ship carrying 200+ containers taking a relatively direct route with the same number of HGVs taking a tortuous road route.

These ships carry 20000 teus  (20ft equivalent units) you are not going to move this volume via an HGV, from the far east to Europe.

 

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9 hours ago, kiaboy said:

Zero emissions? How do you think that? 🙄

If you read what I put "zero emissions at point of use" there are no emissions from electric vehicles.

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2 hours ago, AJGalaxy2012 said:

If you read what I put "zero emissions at point of use" there are no emissions from electric vehicles.

I did read your comment correctly, but I made the comment as some think they are driving a vehicle that is clean when it isn't, so there are emissions generated to power them so even though they look to be emission free even at the point of use they are not. If everyone thinks that then they are missing the point.

I would like to know from scientist (independent and not government statistics or the I think brigade of forums) what total cost to the environment the EV manufacture especially for disposal of power packs. 

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1 hour ago, kiaboy said:

I did read your comment correctly, but I made the comment as some think they are driving a vehicle that is clean when it isn't, so there are emissions generated to power them so even though they look to be emission free even at the point of use they are not. If everyone thinks that then they are missing the point.

I would like to know from scientist (independent and not government statistics or the I think brigade of forums) what total cost to the environment the EV manufacture especially for disposal of power packs. 

I am completely aware of the emissions of car manufacture, I specifically said no emissions at the point of use which you suggest I'm wrong, kindly explain with your greater knowledge.

1 hour ago, Will deBeast said:

 

No tailpipe emissions, certainly.

 

Lots of particles from the brakes and tyres still.  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48944561

Certainly from the tyres but no worse than any other car, brakes very little due to effective regen braking, I dont use the brakes on my i3 at all other than in an emergency stop situation, regen braking does it all.

 

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Yes same with us in the Leaf-regen braking at max means brakes are very rarely needed at all.

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1 hour ago, kiaboy said:

I did read your comment correctly, but I made the comment as some think they are driving a vehicle that is clean when it isn't, so there are emissions generated to power them so even though they look to be emission free even at the point of use they are not. If everyone thinks that then they are missing the point.

I would like to know from scientist (independent and not government statistics or the I think brigade of forums) what total cost to the environment the EV manufacture especially for disposal of power packs. 

 

Towns and cities have high concentrations of NOx and other toxic emissions which justifies moving to cars which are "emission free at point of use" to improve the air quality for those who live, work, visit towns and cities.

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35 minutes ago, Black Grouse said:

 

Towns and cities have high concentrations of NOx and other toxic emissions which justifies moving to cars which are "emission free at point of use" to improve the air quality for those who live, work, visit towns and cities.


Therefore passing the emissions on to open areas and through high chimneys.  Great for towns and cities, but how effective, if any, for the global  situation?

 

John 

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1 hour ago, JCloughie said:


Therefore passing the emissions on to open areas and through high chimneys.  Great for towns and cities, but how effective, if any, for the global  situation?

 

John 

 

That's the other part of equation.

 

image.png.70ba18c1793f47e146cb6a091cf1e327.png

 

The UK has massively reduced it's CO2 emissions from generation but nearly all the gains have been made by closing coal stations. You can see the decline levelling out in 2017 and theres not been a massive decline in 2018/19.

This is because getting rid of coal was the low hanging fruit, easy pickings.

 

Now we have to reduce gas generation. Much harder to do.

Edited by logiclee

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Another thing that has reduced emissions in the UK is closing factories and making most things abroad.

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