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Sea&Sand

Dual Propane & Butane Gas connectors

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I would like to have a quick change over facility to swap between propane and butane easily.

 

I have a Propane/Butane 30mb gas regulator mounted in the gas locker compartment, at present it is fitted with a propane male POL connector to Calor propane cylinder.

 

I would prefer not to swap out the existing connector for a Butane pigtail if I can have dual connectors instead.

 

Is there a way I can achieve this?

 

I note that there is a port on the side of the existing gas regulator, could this be used to attach a pigtail to a Butane cylinder, please see photo.

 

T.I.A. for any suggestions.

 

1485072843_GasRegulator.thumb.jpg.ba8fbf2d5c8123382d6457ea97565ac4.jpg

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Something like this...

 

Auto Changeover Caravan Regulator - 2 x M20 Inlets 

image.jpeg.252536ebb738b06ccb6a9c2c472267b9.jpeg

Caravan and motor home regulator that conforms to EN 12864:2001 Annex D for propane, butane and LPG mix, supplied with a fixing plate and compression outlet fitting, for use within a gas locker.

£36.17 inc vat... see link above.

 

 

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I'm not certain, but I think the "port" is the test point for the low pressure side of the regulator. A tee would be a much better idea, as in PandR's post.    See here     https://www.gasequipmentdirect.co.uk/w20-gas-cylinder-tee-piece-with-non-return-c2x23966761

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I wonder why S&S wants to mix propane and butane bottles?

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21 minutes ago, ReggiePerrin said:

Something like this...

 

Auto Changeover Caravan Regulator - 2 x M20 Inlets 

image.jpeg.252536ebb738b06ccb6a9c2c472267b9.jpeg

Caravan and motor home regulator that conforms to EN 12864:2001 Annex D for propane, butane and LPG mix, supplied with a fixing plate and compression outlet fitting, for use within a gas locker.

£36.17 inc vat... see link above.

 

 

 

That set up will STILL need two different pigtails though! 

 

Andy

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 Over the years I have been given various gas cylinders to "use up" and have carried combinations of both types of gases. ;)  One of these might do the trick   https://leisurelines.net/adaptor-pol-fem-to-butane-nut-3669-p.asp   and avoid the need for a butane pigtail  

Edited by Flat_at
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I think the T connector and the auto changeover regulator will work.

The auto changeover regulator is a bit more time involved than my t-piece and cable ties.

I use propane pigtails for both connectors, the Camping Gaz bottle has a Butane to Propane adapter attached.

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Exchange the butane cylinder for a propane one.

 

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16 minutes ago, Easy T said:

I wonder why S&S wants to mix propane and butane bottles?

 

Hi  Easy T,  have a fair amount of butane I may as well use up, I don't intend carrying both propane and butane at the same time.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

That set up will STILL need two different pigtails though! 

 

Andy

Indeed it will but presumably it will Fully and safely isolate the side not in use (it must do to allow the empty cylinder to be removed and replaced).

 

I have never seen a butane push fit to a propane screw fit adaptor (or vice versa).  

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I would rather keep my existing regulator and save the cost of buying a new one, but thanks for the suggestion ReggiePerrin.

 

I know that I will need 2 different pigtails, I like what PandR and Flat-at have suggested.

 

Flat-at, do you know if the T-piece you linked to will thread directly onto my regulator and what type pigtail connector\thread type I would need to buy to fit onto the 'T' branch, I see that your 'T' has a non-return valve.

 

Cheers all.

 

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:
1 hour ago, Sea&Sand said:

I would prefer not to swap out the existing connector for a Butane pigtail if I can have dual connectors instead.

That set up will STILL need two different pigtails though! 

 

Andy


Two pigtails is not the problem for the OP ... removing the need to keep swapping them back and forth at the regulator is the challenge.  

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3 hours ago, Sea&Sand said:

Flat-at, do you know if the T-piece you linked to will thread directly onto my regulator and what type pigtail connector\thread type I would need to buy to fit onto the 'T' branch, I see that your 'T' has a non-return valve.

 

Cheers all.

 

 

 

 

  Looking at your photo, you have a standard W20 to POL pigtail. If you undo the fitting at the regulator end the tee will screw onto the regulator and then you need to screw the regulator ends of the pigtails onto the tee (as in PandR's post, just below your 1st post) I have not used one of these with a non return valve so cannot say if it can be used with only one bottle connected. I also notiiced thatPandR has one of the butane nut to POL adapter on his butane cylinder (looks like a campingaz). What type of butane cylinder do you have? Hope this helps.  :)

Edited by Flat_at
I thought of something else

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20 minutes ago, Flat_at said:

  Looking at your photo, you have a standard W20 to POL pigtail. If you undo the fitting at the regulator end the tee will screw onto the regulator and then you need to screw the regulator ends of the pigtails onto the tee (as in PandR's post, just below your 1st post) I have not used one of these with a non return valve so cannot say if it can be used with only one bottle connected. I also notiiced thatPandR has one of the butane nut to POL adapter on his butane cylinder (looks like a campingaz). What type of butane cylinder do you have? Hope this helps.  :)

 

Yes Flat-at, your comments are very helpful.

Perhaps the Butane nut to Pol adapter is the way to go, I am using Calor 15kg Butane cylinders.

 

Thanks.

John

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7 minutes ago, Sea&Sand said:

 

Yes Flat-at, your comments are very helpful.

Perhaps the Butane nut to Pol adapter is the way to go, I am using Calor 15kg Butane cylinders.

 

Thanks.

John

 The 15 Kg Calor cylinders are a clip on type so a butane nut will NOT fit. You will need one of these   https://www.gasequipmentdirect.co.uk/clip-on-adaptors-c102x3282423   to suit your cylinder, then a butane nut pigtail to connect to the tee piece. It's not easy, a friend gave me a half full 10 Kg BP gaslight. It would have cost more for the adaptor and pigtail than the value of the gas, however, I was extremely lucky and found the neccesary kit in, I kid you not, a charity shop! B)

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A little note of caution for older caravans, for someone restoring one, building a day van or using a second hand caravan gas appliance.

 

Up to 2003 the hobs, fires etc. though designed to run on Butane or Propane, operated at two different pressures 28mb for butane or 37mb for propane,  so needed and still do require separate  regs.

 

After 2003 the design pressure for both was fixed @ 30mb enabling the use of one reg. for both gasses and bulkhead reg mounting simpler.

 

And a word of caution about about the effect of gas going wrong.

 

An amateur parachutist is falling from the sky, and despite all attempts is unable to open the chute. Just at the critical point he sees a man coming up towards him. He thinks "Thank God" and then shouts "Oi, mate! do you know anything about parachutes?"  The other bloke says "No mate!, do you know anything about gas plumbing?"

 

 😱🤣

 

 

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Silversurf said:

A little note of caution for older caravans, for someone restoring one, building a day van or using a second hand caravan gas appliance.

 

Up to 2003 the hobs, fires etc. though designed to run on Butane or Propane, operated at two different pressures 28mb for butane or 37mb for propane,  so needed and still do require separate  regs.

 

After 2003 the design pressure for both was fixed @ 30mb enabling the use of one reg. for both gasses and bulkhead reg mounting simpler.

 

And a word of caution about about the effect of gas going wrong.

 

An amateur parachutist is falling from the sky, and despite all attempts is unable to open the chute. Just at the critical point he sees a man coming up towards him. He thinks "Thank God" and then shouts "Oi, mate! do you know anything about parachutes?"  The other bloke says "No mate!, do you know anything about gas plumbing?"

 

 😱🤣

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are  post 2003 appliances now rated and plated at ONLY 30 mBar?

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1 hour ago, beejay said:

 

 

 

Are  post 2003 appliances now rated and plated at ONLY 30 mBar?

 In a word, no. All the appliances in my 2011 'van are rated at 28mb butane, 37mb propane and 30mb propane/butane. :mellow:

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With a bit of luck this may work out easier than I expected.

 

I found a calor butane cylider connector in my spares box, it is an 'unrestricted flow' type, a bit old but hopefully still fully functional, I don't have the butane cylinders at home right now but fingers crossed it is the correct connector.

 

I will retain the existing propane pigtail as shown in the photo in first post (no need for 2 pigtails if this works out).

 

I just need a Pol to Butane connector (as linked to by Flat_at) and my existing propane Pol should just screw into that, would anyone care to confirm.

 

If anyone has a Pol to Butane adapter they no longer need I will happy to buy and pay the postage.

 

Some pics below:

 

953406621_CalorPoltoBtane.png.39c76f7c8bf0ea3e2860a8721f56e795.png583684490_CalorButane.thumb.png.ba28981a1749abf1617ec62fe71c6ece.png

 

2007534263_GasRegulator.thumb.jpg.42aa98dbf37ed091034ec1566eeb6c36.jpg

Edited by Sea&Sand
Photo added.

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On 03/02/2020 at 16:02, Flat_at said:

I'm not certain, but I think the "port" is the test point for the low pressure side of the regulator. A tee would be a much better idea, as in PandR's post.    See here     https://www.gasequipmentdirect.co.uk/w20-gas-cylinder-tee-piece-with-non-return-c2x23966761

 As already said I believe that the "port" you refer to is the test point and is on the low pressure side of the regulator. Connecting a cylinder to this will give full cylinder pressure to the appliances! I would not do this and would advise you not to do it :o. A better solution would be to fit a tee, as in PandR's post, and screw a butane pigtail onto your Calor clip on connector. The hole under your connector should measure 21mm if it is the right one for a Calor 15kg cylinder, (measure carefully as the next size down is 20mm) according to Calors own website and select "written instructions" for your cylinder.                            https://www.calor.co.uk/gas-bottles/advice/connecting?tabname=Connecting-butane-gas-bottles   

Edited by Flat_at
Doh, again
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The connection being referred to as a "port", is NOT, EVER to be used to introduce gas to the system.

 

It is a TEST connection only to a special hand pump to test the tightness of the system, after the diaphragm has been locked.

 

Whatever system you may decide to try and use you MUST ensure that neither gas can get to the other cylinder under ANY circumstances.

 

The only safe way to use different gases is to use one at a time with the correct pigtail.

 

The photo of the setup in P&R's post is illegal if one of the gases is Propane and the other Butane. !!!!! 

Edited by Brecon

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2 hours ago, Brecon said:

The connection being referred to as a "port", is NOT, EVER to be used to introduce gas to the system.

 

It is a TEST connection only to a special hand pump to test the tightness of the system, after the diaphragm has been locked.

 

Whatever system you may decide to try and use you MUST ensure that neither gas can get to the other cylinder under ANY circumstances.

 

The only safe way to use different gases is to use one at a time with the correct pigtail.

 

The photo of the setup in P&R's post is illegal if one of the gases is Propane and the other Butane. !!!!! 

 

The 'port' has definitely been discounted, and as I said earlier "I don't intend carrying both propane and butane at the same time".

 

I was thinking of having 2 different pigtails, but I think that will no longer be necessary if the Pol to butane adaptor suggestion is viable.

 

What is illegal in PandR's set up, is it the 'Tee piece' or the Pol to Butane adaptor or both?

 

I understand that Tee pieces fitted with a non-return valve can be purchased, would a Tee piece having a non return valve  prevent different gas types from mixing?, if so would that make it legal.

 

I don't now intend to use a Tee piece but it would be interesting to get the correct information regarding the use of such items, hopefully it will be of help to others who wish to have the option of using both propane and butane.

 

John

 

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5 minutes ago, Sea&Sand said:

What is illegal in PandR's set up, is it the 'Tee piece' or the Pol to Butane adaptor or both?

 

I understand that Tee pieces fitted with a non-return valve can be purchased, would a Tee piece having a non return valve  prevent different gas types from mixing?,

 

The T setup that he has is the illegal part as there is a possibility of having a mix of both gases at cylinder pressure.

The only legal way of having two cylinders feeding the regulator is with the correct dedicated changeover system , a non return valve in a T piece is not allowed to be the primary control.

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On 04/02/2020 at 15:26, Flat_at said:

 In a word, no. All the appliances in my 2011 'van are rated at 28mb butane, 37mb propane and 30mb propane/butane. :mellow:

 

As they were in my 2000 caravan.

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