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GaryB1969

A novel fifth wheel solution

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They make turntable trailers with electric brakes because of the restrictions on surge brakes but you don't see many here and more in Europe .

https://www.wagenbouwbolle.nl/producten/elektrische-geremde-schamelwagens-en-opleggers/schamelwagen-gesloten-elektrisch-remsysteem-mogelijk/

 

More stable design to a centre axle as no snaking no rear overhang to scrape and independent braking ?

 

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave

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1 hour ago, CommanderDave said:

They make turntable trailers with electric brakes because of the restrictions on surge brakes but you don't see many here and more in Europe .

https://www.wagenbouwbolle.nl/producten/elektrische-geremde-schamelwagens-en-opleggers/schamelwagen-gesloten-elektrisch-remsysteem-mogelijk/

 

More stable design to a centre axle as no snaking no rear overhang to scrape and independent braking ?

 

Dave

 

I always liked that idea of a trailer - though it would make an ideal base for a caravan

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On 19/01/2020 at 08:34, CommanderDave said:

They make turntable trailers with electric brakes .... More stable design to a centre axle as no snaking no rear overhang to scrape and independent braking ?

 

Indeed.

 

If caravans had evolved only along the lines of turntable chassis (as - you know what I mean - old time horse-drawn caravans were), and then post-1990 (say) someone came along with the idea of a single axle caravan, I don't doubt that the single axle idea would have been promptly banned as potentially unstable and too dangerous.

Edited by Bolingbroke
Clarity

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On 19/01/2020 at 08:34, CommanderDave said:

 

 

More stable design to a centre axle as no snaking no rear overhang to scrape and independent braking ?

 

What makes you think that four wheel trailers are imune from snaking?

They are also much more difficult (but not impossible) to reverse.

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On 18/01/2020 at 08:53, Mr Plodd said:

It’s also not legal in that configuration as it’s two individual trailers not one.

 

In the UK you are not permitted to tow more than a single trailer. And before any smart arts jumps onto their soap box yes there ARE some exceptions. One is a tractor towing “agricultural Implement” trailers (max of 2) or a “Showman’s” wagon.They can sometimes be seen on motorways towing fairground rides followed by a large caravan but there are very specific conditions that have to be met. The main one being they are registered, and taxed as a “Showman’s wagon” 

 

The one in the link is also not permitted in the UK because, as stated, it’s a turntable trailer and over run brakes are not permitted on them. The reason being that, in France, they WERE very popular with market traders. The problem came if there was a need to brake sharply whilst towing vehicle and trailer were not fully aligned. The towing vehicle would slow and, because the trailer wasn’t fully in line the trailer brakes wouldn’t operate efficiently, therefore the trailer continued on with turntable rotating further, this made the brakes even less efficient (because the over run ram was out of line) There were several deaths due these (heavy) trailers jackknifing/turning over.  So the E.U. banned their use a few years ago.

 

Andy

They are not banned by the EU Andy and are still legal in the UK.

They cannot be type approved with Inertia overrun brakes for the reason you gave but they could be IVA'd in the UK and often are.

They can be approved with continuous brakes ie Air  but this is not applicable to M1 and N1 vehicles.

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I was trying to relate my post to the type of trailer normally associated with caravans and similar rather than “muddying” the waters over different braking systems that, in general DONT get fitted to caravans.

 

I must admit my understanding was that they are now banned in Europe, but having said that I certainly don’t have the depth of knowledge on the subject that you have as a result of it being your business! So thank you for the clarification.

 

It does seem somewhat perverse that they cannot be type approved but CAN be IVA’d. They are not type approved for good reason and that reason would still exist on an IVA’d one!! But as someone once said “The law is an ass!” 

 

Andy

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1 hour ago, Mr Plodd said:

I was trying to relate my post to the type of trailer normally associated with caravans and similar rather than “muddying” the waters over different braking systems that, in general DONT get fitted to caravans.

 

I must admit my understanding was that they are now banned in Europe, but having said that I certainly don’t have the depth of knowledge on the subject that you have as a result of it being your business! So thank you for the clarification.

 

It does seem somewhat perverse that they cannot be type approved but CAN be IVA’d. They are not type approved for good reason and that reason would still exist on an IVA’d one!! But as someone once said “The law is an ass!” 

 

Andy


The law is there to cater for the vast majority of normal conditions, but there is always a case to allow for exceptions on a case-by-case basis. How else would one be able to allow special vehicles such as mobile cranes for example, which do not comply in full with Construction and Use Regulations? Such vehicles can be approved under an IVA subject to certain restrictions concerning their use on public roads.

Edited by Lutz

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On 18/01/2020 at 08:53, Mr Plodd said:

In the UK you are not permitted to tow more than a single trailer. And before any smart arts jumps onto their soap box yes there ARE some exceptions. One is a tractor towing “agricultural Implement” trailers (max of 2) or a “Showman’s” wagon.They can sometimes be seen on motorways towing fairground rides followed by a large caravan but there are very specific conditions that have to be met. The main one being they are registered, and taxed as a “Showman’s wagon” 

Andy

As a matter of interest, if you wanted to tow a boat behind a caravan in the UK is it possible to get the showman's licence?  We used to see this sort of combination occasionally in SA, but at the time never gave it a thought as to whether it was legal or not.

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2 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

As a matter of interest, if you wanted to tow a boat behind a caravan in the UK is it possible to get the showman's licence?  We used to see this sort of combination occasionally in SA, but at the time never gave it a thought as to whether it was legal or not.

 

AFAIK you can only get a Showman's Licence if you're a showman, ie operate a fairground and use a Showman's Tractor to pull the outfit - I also believe the middle trailer needs to be a four-wheeled turntable type

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