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Grumpy2

powrtouch on twin axle

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advice sought please as we're in a bit of a pickle.

 

Bought a newSwift  twin axle caravan back in November, dealer fitted powrtouch single axle motor mover which so far has worked fine both for manoeuvring and hitching

 

Went to Manchester show today and both Swift and Powrtouch say it MUST have 4 wheel drive motor mover.  Price to upgrade is approx £950.

 

Opinions please, not about me as I freely admit I know nothing!

 

Thanks

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Using a single axle mover on TA caravan is pretty commonplace, so it can't be too bad!

 

I can understand Powertouch wanting you to spend more money though!

Edited by Stevan
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We have a TA using single axle mover.

they are talking horse .....

never had a problem

if we need to turn on a tight spot we lower the front end ( mover on front axle) which eases the pressure on the rear tyres 

save your money and buy more wine 

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Swift , Powrtouch, and all the other trade stands are at the show for one reason: To Sell !!!!

 

There are various trains of thought on movers, especially regarding twin axle vans.

At the start of the mover "revolution" there was only one option,,,,,,,,a single mover unit for both types of van, single and twin axle.

 

The single fitment on a twin was a matter of debate as to which set of wheels to fit to, because to minimise the workload of the motors, one set of wheels had to be lifted to lessen the scrubbing effect on the non driven wheels, and this was done either by raising the jockey wheel to lift the front axle slightly, or lowering the jockey wheel to lift the rear axle a little.

 

In both cases the mover worked quite well and did the job, maybe with some reservations such as not being able to spin the van on its axis like a single axle van can be.

 

The introduction of twin movers, or 4 wheel drive, actually did nothing to improve the manoeuverability, it just pulsed the opposite wheel to that which power was being sent to  effect a turn.

The only "improvement" as such was the doing away with the need to raise or lower the jockey wheel to lessen the drag on one of the axles not being powered.

 

If your mover is doing what you need it to do, then that is all that is needed as long as you are satisfied.

 

Of course the makers and dealers would love to relieve you of £950 and may make you all kinds of offers of how much better it would be,,,,,,,,,,but not for you,for them !!!!

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We too only have a single mover on the rear axle of our Conq. Works fine for us as we only use it for final placing on a pitch or nosing the van into its storage spot. Doesn’t screw up the tyres and suspension like a 4WD system either. 

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Another issue to consider after price is how much the weight of the additional movers eat into your payload? Our new Commodore (when it comes!) has quite a modest payload and Powrtouch 4WD movers weigh about 60 kilos! (which why virtually everyone plates them up to 2000kg).

So ya pays yer money and...……………………….!

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Tuningdrew said:

We too only have a single mover on the rear axle of our Conq. Works fine for us as we only use it for final placing on a pitch or nosing the van into its storage spot. Doesn’t screw up the tyres and suspension like a 4WD system either. 

Its not the 4WD system that distorts the tyres, it's how tight a turn you're doing. 4WD will do a tighter turn than a 2WD system on a twin axle.

 

Its all well and good having 2WD on a twin axle until you meet something like a dr=opped kerb etc, uneven ground you will lose drive from the mover as the non driven wheel takes the weight. Maybe it doesnt happen or you dont cross uneven ground etc. For me 4WD is the only way to go with a twin axle, no point in having a mover that cant reliably do the job.

 

 

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Again a SA mover on a TA caravan.

When our caravan was stored at the back of the house, it was a 30 minute journey by mover, around two 90 deg corners and up a slope in one part 1 :10. After some practise it was easy!

Maneuvering it into narrow continental pitches is easy by comparison.

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phew, thanks for all the replies. think my mind will rest easier now.

 

cheers

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9 hours ago, AJGalaxy2012 said:

Its not the 4WD system that distorts the tyres, it's how tight a turn you're doing. 4WD will do a tighter turn than a 2WD system on a twin axle.

 

Its all well and good having 2WD on a twin axle until you meet something like a dr=opped kerb etc, uneven ground you will lose drive from the mover as the non driven wheel takes the weight. Maybe it doesnt happen or you dont cross uneven ground etc. For me 4WD is the only way to go with a twin axle, no point in having a mover that cant reliably do the job.

 

 

Never been an issue to us so far but then I’m only using the mover to square up the van on a pitch or place it across the pitch where there’s not enough room for van and tug .I suppose people  who have difficulty reversing or manoeuvering their van anywhere near a pitch or choose to pitch on rough ground then  AWD is a must. A mover is an enhancement for me that makes life a bit easier, certainly  not a necessity. 

Edited by Tuningdrew
Typo

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We initially had a single mover fitted. It worked fine and for home, on the flat it didn't have a problem.

However, at other places with steeper ground, or as said above, uneven ground, plus soggy ground, it struggled. If you read the weight ratings for a single set, they are only for flat ground. A 1900Kg TA takes some shoving up a gradient. So I got another mover from fleabay and fitted it myself. It does do tighter turns and it does do steep slopes and quagmires now.

It just depends on where you go with your caravan.

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MUST is rubbish and sales Talk . I had a single mover on my TA 2000 kg for ten years with no issues . I use a Auto Evolution on my TA car trailer loaded with a car and it has no problems now

 

As long as you don't exceed the movers design weight and running 4 motors will reduce the time the battery lasts .

 

https://www.caravanmoversonline.co.uk/pages/compare-movers.html

Edited by CommanderDave

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We had a Powertouch single move for our 2000kg twin axle caravan and had no issue on UK sites however we soon found out that AWD mover was much better for continental sites due to narrow roadways and a restricted turning area.  If you have no plans to travel on the continent stick with the single.

 

BTW if Powertouch and Swift are stating that you need a AWD motor mover for your twin axle surely that means you were sold a unit that was not fit for purpose under CRA 2015?  Just wondering? :D

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8 hours ago, CommanderDave said:

MUST is rubbish and sales Talk . I had a single mover on my TA 2000 kg for ten years with no issues . I use a Auto Evolution on my TA car trailer loaded with a car and it has no problems now

 

As long as you don't exceed the movers design weight and running 4 motors will reduce the time the battery lasts .

 

https://www.caravanmoversonline.co.uk/pages/compare-movers.html

It actually doesnt, the current the motors take is relevant to the work it has to do, twice the number of motors equals half the work, the fact that the motors are lightly loaded also allows them to spin faster which also makes them more efficient.

5 hours ago, Durbanite said:

BTW if Powertouch and Swift are stating that you need a AWD motor mover for your twin axle surely that means you were sold a unit that was not fit for purpose under CRA 2015?  Just wondering? :D

 

Not really, go up a dropped curve with a 2wd motor on the wheels and you will lose traction as the back wheel is lifted off the tarmac. That WOULD be not fit for the purpose, 4WD would drive it fine under all conditions and thus would be fit for the purpose.

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Very Interesting reading. We have a Crusader Zephyr TA with a single mover and although it drives ok on flat concrete or tarmac it struggles on pea gravel and the jockey wheel digs in. We have changed the jockey wheel to a Karrt wheel from CMC so it remains to be seen if this will fix it.  I'm interested t know if I should raise the wheel more (jockey) to lift the front axle slightly or lower it to take more weight on the twin axle and put less weight on the jockey.

Less weight on the jockey may stop it digging in...Hmmm

Edited by colin h
gonna kill spell check

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35 minutes ago, colin h said:

Very Interesting reading. We have a Crusader Zephyr TA with a single mover and although it drives ok on flat concrete or tarmac it struggles on pea gravel and the jockey wheel digs in. We have changed the jockey wheel to a Karrt wheel from CMC so it remains to be seen if this will fix it.  I'm interested t know if I should raise the wheel more (jockey) to lift the front axle slightly or lower it to take more weight on the twin axle and put less weight on the jockey.

Less weight on the jockey may stop it digging in...Hmmm

Or get 4wd!

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We have a 4wd car but not the mover

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Contacted the selling dealer today with no definitive response so far. Our tow car is a 4x4 (Audi Q5) and I'm not too bad at reversing. Yes we are taking it to France and Italy this summer but intend to stay only on 'deluxe' sites if that makes any difference. I get the raising/lowering jockey wheel for coping with uneven levels and I'm OK with that.

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38 minutes ago, Grumpy2 said:

Contacted the selling dealer today with no definitive response so far. Our tow car is a 4x4 (Audi Q5) and I'm not too bad at reversing. Yes we are taking it to France and Italy this summer but intend to stay only on 'deluxe' sites if that makes any difference. I get the raising/lowering jockey wheel for coping with uneven levels and I'm OK with that.

Good luck, enjoy your holiday.

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6 hours ago, AJGalaxy2012 said:

It actually doesnt, the current the motors take is relevant to the work it has to do, twice the number of motors equals half the work, the fact that the motors are lightly loaded also allows them to spin faster which also makes them more efficient.

 

 

A AWD on the chart shows it's average current as twice the amount and fused twice as high  for a single .

https://www.caravanmoversonline.co.uk/pages/compare-movers.html

They use more energy to produce a better turning circle which has got to come from the battery ?

 

 

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave

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6 hours ago, CommanderDave said:

 

A AWD on the chart shows it's average current as twice the amount and fused twice as high  for a single .

https://www.caravanmoversonline.co.uk/pages/compare-movers.html

They use more energy to produce a better turning circle which has got to come from the battery ?

 

 

Dave

It doesn't say under what conditions they measured the average current. On my Senator Wyoming when I checked currents of individual motors, single motor per side took 35 amps, both motors per side took 19 amps. These were measured with the caravan at a steady speed on a level tarmac roadway. 

Electric motors are very efficient, the load of the caravan is a fixed load and constant on a level road. It will need 'x' amount of power to move it, split the power between double the amount of motors and the current will reduce.

 

image.png.972b664e4329395cde51506a26b9ba8d.png

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16 hours ago, AJGalaxy2012 said:

Not really, go up a dropped curve with a 2wd motor on the wheels and you will lose traction as the back wheel is lifted off the tarmac. That WOULD be not fit for the purpose, 4WD would drive it fine under all conditions and thus would be fit for the purpose.

I was referring to the single axle motor mover already fitted on the caravan and not the 4WD or AWD motor mover when referring to a twin axle caravan.

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AWD on our Swift makes light work of soggy ground and tight turns at the storage area. Each to their own though. The latest Powertouch we have is much better than the last Reich one that didn’t have such a good turning circle.

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We have one of the latest Reich 4WD movers on our 2 tonne Bessacarr, it has more power than you can shake a stick at, far more than its Reich predecessor.

 

A couple of times I have only engaged it on one axle as a 2WD when manoeuvring just backwards and forwards onto levelling boards where it copes just fine.

 

In 2WD, although there is ample power and pressure into the tyres, it will really not cope with turning, the rollers start to slip and when the tyres are wet it stands no chance from the outset.

 

I would imagine that when dry, it would cope with a 4" kerb without a problem but in the rain, once the tyres are wet and drive is lost from 2 wheels I would doubt it very much.

 

On a 2 tonne caravan like ours, IMO 4WD has to be the way to go and give the best chance under all conditions.

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Griff said:

I would imagine that when dry, it would cope with a 4" kerb without a problem but in the rain, once the tyres are wet and drive is lost from 2 wheels I would doubt it very much.

 

Power isnt the issue, it's when the driven wheel is lifted off the surface.

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