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Tommy2704

Towbar connections

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Hi. Ive fitted a new 13 pin plug to my towbar on my x5 e53. All is working other than the fridge as im not sure where to wire this wire too. I know it needs to be an ignition 12v. Has anybody done this before on an x5 who could let me know best place to connect wire. 

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14 minutes ago, Tommy2704 said:

Hi. Ive fitted a new 13 pin plug to my towbar on my x5 e53. All is working other than the fridge as im not sure where to wire this wire too. I know it needs to be an ignition 12v. Has anybody done this before on an x5 who could let me know best place to connect wire. 

You'll need a relay to feed the fridge supply which usually switches a direct(fused feed from the battery) and either controlled by the ignition or a voltage controlled so it only operates when the engine is running at a fast idle - something like this http://www.rydertowing.co.uk/downloads/instructions/TF1170-3.pdf

 

Although if you've used a proper towing kit I would have though that this would have been provided. However some require a supplementary kit to enable the fridge supply to operate

Edited by matelodave

2018 S-Max Titanium 2. 0 Tdci (177. 54bhp,180ps,132kw) Powershift + 2015 Unicorn III Cadz, Ventura Marlin porch awning

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It seems from other posts that if the fitter uses the cars dedicated plug in wiring kit it only does the road lights of the caravan, what I read is not all fitters do the 12V permanent and the 12V when engine on pins unless instructed, so fridge/charging leisure battery can happen.

Also I found out after fitting my cars computer needed some programming added so all is ok when towing.

 


Regards, David
Ford Kuga ST line 2ltr. Diesel 2017,  Bailey Pursuit 11 400/2 2018, Emove em303 motor mover, Hyundai 1000i Generator.

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Dedicated wiring kits are designed to plug and play. If the right kit is  fitted the car will recognise it.  Modern cars have intelligent charging and smart alternators, which can misbehave when they are messed about.


Ern

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11 minutes ago, Ern said:

  Modern cars have intelligent charging and smart alternators, which can misbehave when they are messed about.

 

Agree as I've just been finding out with my car that the main car dealer as no idea about the car with a towbar fitted and how to deal with it when servicing car.


Regards, David
Ford Kuga ST line 2ltr. Diesel 2017,  Bailey Pursuit 11 400/2 2018, Emove em303 motor mover, Hyundai 1000i Generator.

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18 minutes ago, Ern said:

Dedicated wiring kits are designed to plug and play. If the right kit is  fitted the car will recognise it.  Modern cars have intelligent charging and smart alternators, which can misbehave when they are messed about.

Not true - my car has a Ford supplied dedicated kit and it still requires the car's ECU to be programmed. Likewise some car kits, even manufacturers supplied kits require a supplementary kit to provide fridge power.

 

Many aftermarket kits which are purported to be "dedicated" are universal kits and although they communicate with the CANbus, dont always provide the same functionality as a manufacturer's kit.

 

One of my previous cars had a "dedicated" kit supplied by Westfalia and it caused havoc and had to be removed and replaced with a proper kit. It also did not "plug & play" like the proper kit and required splicing into the CANbus with scotchlocks.

 

Fortunately the fitter was happy to refund it and I didn't get into a blame game with the dealer and fitter when getting it sorted out..

 

Nowadays there's no way I would be happy with an aftermarket kit unless it was supplied by the manufacturer, especially with smart charging. It's nigh on impossible to fault find even with the correct kit.

 

Paying a bit extra to have the correct kit fitted is far better than a 200mile ride home on the back of a breakdown lorry with the van in tow.

 

Edited by matelodave

2018 S-Max Titanium 2. 0 Tdci (177. 54bhp,180ps,132kw) Powershift + 2015 Unicorn III Cadz, Ventura Marlin porch awning

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It didnt come with any relays. Just the wires and 13pin plug. 

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15 minutes ago, Tommy2704 said:

It didnt come with any relays. Just the wires and 13pin plug. 


Was it a full kit or lights only? Was is dedicated for your car or generic?  How did you deal with the permanent live and battery charging?

 

John


Volvo V70 D3 SE (was Peugeot 4007, SsangYong Korando), Pulling a Lunar Clubman SI 2015. If you are depressed, you are living in the past. If you are anxious, you are living in the future. If you are at peace, you are living in the present.

 

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12 minutes ago, JCloughie said:


Was it a full kit or lights only? Was is dedicated for your car or generic?  How did you deal with the permanent live and battery charging?

 

John

Does it fool the bulb failure device and cut the rear fog light and parking sensors when hitched?

 

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41 minutes ago, Tommy2704 said:

It didnt come with any relays. Just the wires and 13pin plug. 

My wiring kit came with an electronics module to connect back to the Control units in the car, that's why the car needs reprogramming.   The CU in the car first has to be told that the new module is connected, then the car CU has to be told that it's a towing module.  No electronics, it's a cheap and cheerful and ineffective solution


Larry from Essex

2019 Bailey Unicorn Cabrera 2017 Kuga 2. 0 TDCi 150

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This is the sort of kit I'd expect you to have, although again it's a bodge as it needs to be scotchlok'd into the CANbus. Not something that I'd want to do  but it's obviously up to you

https://www.pfjones.co.uk/pfjoneswiringkits/29020525PF_BMW_X5_F15_X6_F16_15-_13PIN_PF_Jones_Towbar_Electrics.pdf


2018 S-Max Titanium 2. 0 Tdci (177. 54bhp,180ps,132kw) Powershift + 2015 Unicorn III Cadz, Ventura Marlin porch awning

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Please no more Talk about Scotchloks, spawn of the devil. Do it properly, soldered and shrink wrapped. 

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Blimey - I'm glad I specified towing electrics to be fitted at the factory.


Land Rover on SORN so not towing anything for a while

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10 hours ago, matelodave said:

This is the sort of kit I'd expect you to have, although again it's a bodge as it needs to be scotchlok'd into the CANbus. Not something that I'd want to do  but it's obviously up to you

https://www.pfjones.co.uk/pfjoneswiringkits/29020525PF_BMW_X5_F15_X6_F16_15-_13PIN_PF_Jones_Towbar_Electrics.pdf

That looks like a proper wiring kit that connects to the sockets in the car and is not a bodge.

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8 hours ago, onewheelonmywagon said:

Blimey - I'm glad I specified towing electrics to be fitted at the factory.

 

Even that only works for certain brands - many other brands only fit road lighting circuits as standard even with factory-fit towbar.


2015 VW Touareg 3. 0 V6 TDI + 2013 Lunar Clubman ES

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When I bought a pre-owned 2010 VW Passat Highline+ TDI 170 estate last October it came with a towbar and a wiring harness fitted.  The previous owner gave me a copy of the invoice for the installation which showed that a basic dedicated PF Jones after market wiring harness had been installed.

As I required the supplementary wiring added I took the car to the tow bar company who had fitted the tow bar and harness for them to add the appropriate harness.

Before adding the harness the company checked the 13 pin socket and discovered that the supplementary connections were already there though there is no visual evidence that there is a permanent feed from the vehicle's battery.

After first towing a caravan I found that the tug seems to charge the battery whilst towing, though I have not been able to check if the fridge is operating durinng towing.

Examination of the wiring diagram shows that the permanent feed is picked up from the fuse box. Does anyone know if the above vehicle has CANBUS fitted?

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1 minute ago, DeeTee said:

When I bought a pre-owned 2010 VW Passat Highline+ TDI 170 estate last October it came with a towbar and a wiring harness fitted.  The previous owner gave me a copy of the invoice for the installation which showed that a basic dedicated PF Jones after market wiring harness had been installed.

As I required the supplementary wiring added I took the car to the tow bar company who had fitted the tow bar and harness for them to add the appropriate harness.

Before adding the harness the company checked the 13 pin socket and discovered that the supplementary connections were already there though there is no visual evidence that there is a permanent feed from the vehicle's battery.

After first towing a caravan I found that the tug seems to charge the battery whilst towing, though I have not been able to check if the fridge is operating durinng towing.

Examination of the wiring diagram shows that the permanent feed is picked up from the fuse box. Does anyone know if the above vehicle has CANBUS fitted?

At that age almost certainly, I had a 2009 Seat Exeo, that was CANBUS


Larry from Essex

2019 Bailey Unicorn Cabrera 2017 Kuga 2. 0 TDCi 150

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1 hour ago, Guzzilazz said:

At that age almost certainly, I had a 2009 Seat Exeo, that was CANBUS

Thanks. As I did not have the wiring looms installed I do not know how much electrickery was involved in connecting to the CANBUS.

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15 hours ago, Guzzilazz said:

My wiring kit came with an electronics module to connect back to the Control units in the car, that's why the car needs reprogramming.   The CU in the car first has to be told that the new module is connected, then the car CU has to be told that it's a towing module.  No electronics, it's a cheap and cheerful and ineffective solution

Not all are like that, my Touareg simply recognised the towbar module added to its canbus and already knew what to do with it.

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My car has a completely plug-in towing  kit (no scotchloks's or additional battery wiring) but still needs the MCU to be programmed to ensure full functionality.

 

Look here for cars that need coding - https://appviewer.diagnosticupdates.com/Westfalia_ACM_EN.html and look here for a flowchart (it's not the same for all marques)

https://files.diagup.me/dl/westfalia/900001400392-001.pdf

Edited by matelodave

2018 S-Max Titanium 2. 0 Tdci (177. 54bhp,180ps,132kw) Powershift + 2015 Unicorn III Cadz, Ventura Marlin porch awning

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Wow, first impression is more or less all cars need programming.

 

A thing to remember is, applies to mine at least, after any service upgrade by dealer of the cars computer is before towing test the caravan is still getting connection for the road lights.  This is because my main car dealer upgraded the car and left me with no connection to caravan road lights, I had to dash to the company who fitted towing and he had to reprogram again. 

Car main dealer would not take responsibility, they say it my fault for having had towing fitted by other than them.  Told me I should have got it from them, but when I bought car from them they refused to quote.  Seems customer always wrong applies.


Regards, David
Ford Kuga ST line 2ltr. Diesel 2017,  Bailey Pursuit 11 400/2 2018, Emove em303 motor mover, Hyundai 1000i Generator.

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It seems to me that had my tug been one year younger, that is >2010, it would not need TOWBAR CONFIGURATION.

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I'm guessing that as the list is from Wesfalia then it probably mostly applies to Westfalia towing modules and wiring kits. PF Jones is probably different as will manufacturer's own dedicated equipment.

 

As in all things, dont take it as definitive, always check with the manufacturers and be aware that sometimes stuff may be appropriate for certain manufacturing runs so you may need to quote specific VIN numbers to ensure that you get the correct revision for your particular vehicle.

 

Remember the small print where it says that manufacturer's reserve the right to change specifications without notice and the famous E&OE that appears in tiny letters somewhere (Errors and Omissions Excepted). There's always a get out clause.


2018 S-Max Titanium 2. 0 Tdci (177. 54bhp,180ps,132kw) Powershift + 2015 Unicorn III Cadz, Ventura Marlin porch awning

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I would research the fitter on a forum dedicated to the car. In our case a lot of interior panels has to be removed to reach the connectors at the front of the car. For the Yeti we decided on North West towbars that fitted a Westfalia dedicated kit and a removable towbar. Westfalia delivered the towbars for the factory fit ones.

 

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Not all cars are the same. Not all cars can be re-programmed to allow a "plug in loom" to be recognised and give the same functions as a factory fitted (as opposed to dealer fitted) system. I went through all of this with PF Jones and Volvo. 


2018 Volvo V90 and 2018 Swift Sprite Quattro EB

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