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xtrailman

Tyre test

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Interesting result to find the summer tyre was the best at dry braking.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, xtrailman said:

Interesting result to find the summer tyre was the best at dry braking.


Why wouldn’t it, a summer tyre has more rubber on the road to grip with.

Winter tyres have bigger gaps between the tread to dissipate the water and snow so less rubber on the road.

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They all put the same area of rubber on the road.  Its the weight on the wheel divided by the tyre pressure.

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Depending where you live it mostly dry in the summer   ;)

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20 minutes ago, kelper said:

They all put the same area of rubber on the road.  Its the weight on the wheel divided by the tyre pressure.

 

Disagree - If the tyre is the same size and the gaps between the tread pattern are wider there cannot be the same amount of rubber on the road.

 

Surface area of tread has got to be less on a winter tyre.

 

Summer Tyre - Narrow tread pattern thin shoulder grooves

image.png

 

Winter Tyre - Wide tread pattern wider shoulder grooves

image.png

 

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27 minutes ago, Grandpa Steve said:


Why wouldn’t it, a summer tyre has more rubber on the road to grip with.

Winter tyres have bigger gaps between the tread to dissipate the water and snow so less rubber on the road.

 

I always assumed a winter tyre would outperform a summer tyre in low temperatures, but now i know different.

It appears a good balance for a winter tyre in the UK in the area i live in would be the cross climate...

6 minutes ago, Grandpa Steve said:

 

Disagree - If the tyre is the same size and the gaps between the tread pattern are wider there cannot be the same amount of rubber on the road.

 

Surface area of tread has got to be less on a winter tyre.

 

Summer Tyre - Narrow tread pattern thin shoulder grooves

image.png

Winter Tyre - Wide tread pattern wider shoulder grooves

image.png

 

 

What about when the summer tyre used is wider than the winter tyre used, narrow wheels are preferred in snow by rally drivers.

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28 minutes ago, kelper said:

They all put the same area of rubber on the road.  Its the weight on the wheel divided by the tyre pressure.

 

The tread pattern has a variable void ratio so different areas of rubber are in contact with the road.

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24 minutes ago, xtrailman said:

What about when the summer tyre used is wider than the winter tyre used, narrow wheels are preferred in snow by rally drivers.

 

Then you are not comparing like for like, not are we talking about rally drivers.

 

My E-Pace has the option of summer tyres or all weather as a factory option, they both sit on the same 20" rims.

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Tyre compound has a far greater influence on grip (in the dry) than tread pattern.

 

Andy

 

 

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Interesting article here showing that the average contact pressure of a tyre equals its inflation pressure.  See Fig 21.  This was measured by strain gauge on the road surface.  :)

Edited by kelper

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Have a look at an F1 tyre to confirm Andy's statement-VERY true! No tread at all on those and of course in the dry-they are the ultimate in grip! It is a a very complex subject  ! 

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39 minutes ago, Jezzerb said:

Have a look at an F1 tyre to confirm Andy's statement-VERY true! No tread at all on those and of course in the dry-they are the ultimate in grip! It is a a very complex subject  ! 

Isn't it because at high speed those tyres are designed to "melt" which then improves grip on corners so no need for tread?

I hope that he does not drive like that on public roads as nearly 80% of the time he is not fully in charge of the vehicle as both hands should be on the steering wheel at 10 to 2.  :D

Edited by Durbanite
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What I find amusing is you are sold a caravan or Motorhome that is a Grade 3 rated to -15 then they fit summer tyres ?

 

I got into this research last year on tyres when looking at taking my Motorhome up to the artic circle .

 

I found it can be confusing and you can get misleading information from tyre suppliers and you need to check on manufacturers sites . As my tyres that are on my MH which are Continental tyres are sold as all season on some tyre suppliers but on the Continental site they are only a summer tyres .

 

 

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave

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It seems that the so called "summer" tyre was actually an all season "dry" tyre!

Also a little worrying how bad the cross climate and all seasons tyres were warm and dry.

To be fair though, none of the results were truly alarming, but it is a pity that they tested over a fairly narrow temperature range. I would be interested in seeing how they performed down to (say) -8°C, or up to 25°C, road surface temperatures which are not unheard of even in the UK.

 

Just how bad are some of these tyres when the conditions are wrong, even though they may not be particularly extreme?

Edited by Stevan

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14 minutes ago, CommanderDave said:

What I find amusing is you are sold a caravan or Motorhome that is a Grade 3 rated to -15 then they fit summer tyres ?

 

I got into this research last year on tyres when looking at taking my Motorhome up to the artic circle .

 

I found it can be confusing and you can get misleading information from tyre suppliers and you need to check on manufacturers sites . As my tyres that are on my MH which are Continental tyres are sold as all season on some tyre suppliers but on the Continental site they are only a summer tyres .

 

 

Dave

 

No different to fitting summer tyres on cars sold in the UK where winter temperatures always drop below 7 C, the threshold for winter tyres - most soft-road 4x4s are delivered on summer tyres with very few having an option of all-season or winters.

 

Best to disregard any TIRE test - most tyres sold in North America use a different compound to those sold in Europe, even with the same make/model identifier - much harder compounds so they can get 60,000/80,000/100,000 mile GUARANTEEs.

Edited by Black Grouse

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7 minutes ago, Black Grouse said:

 

No different to fitting summer tyres on cars sold in the UK where winter temperatures always drop below 7 C, the threshold for winter tyres - most soft-road 4x4s are delivered on summer tyres with very few having an option of all-season or winters.

 

 It got me thinking when I looked into it and compounds and 7degrees and how would you stand if you had an accident in winter conditions on a icy road and a insurance assessment found the vehicle was fitted with summer tyres could they refuse to payout ?

 

 

Dave

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9 minutes ago, CommanderDave said:

 It got me thinking when I looked into it and compounds and 7degrees and how would you stand if you had an accident in winter conditions on a icy road and a insurance assessment found the vehicle was fitted with summer tyres could they refuse to payout ?

Dave

Is there any UK legislation that states you must not use summer tyres in the winter?

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28 minutes ago, CommanderDave said:

 

 It got me thinking when I looked into it and compounds and 7degrees and how would you stand if you had an accident in winter conditions on a icy road and a insurance assessment found the vehicle was fitted with summer tyres could they refuse to payout ?

 

 

Dave

 

Since the vast majority of cars in the UK are on summer tyres all year round, I think we'd have noticed if that were the case.

 

 

18 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

Is there any UK legislation that states you must not use summer tyres in the winter?

 

No

 

Edited by Black Grouse

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12 hours ago, xtrailman said:

I always assumed a winter tyre would outperform a summer tyre in low temperatures, but now i know different.

At zero degrees the 'all season' and 'cross climate' tyres match the summer tyre for dry braking.  And at lower temperatures would outperform it.

 

And the winter tyre might to looking at the trend.

tyre.jpg

Edited by kelper

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34 minutes ago, Black Grouse said:

 

Since the vast majority of cars in the UK are on summer tyres all year round, I think we'd have noticed if that were the case.

 

 

 

No

 

 

But we are warned it is dangerous by the tyre industry .

 

https://www.continental-tyres.co.uk/car/all-about-tyres/tyre-change-fitting/changing-tyres/summer-tyres-in-winter

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Some European countries stipulate winter tyres after a certain time of year. The UK doesn't and most cars have summer tyres fitted. We have a set of winter tyres for our two road cars-not for our caravan tug but they are Continental Cross Contact LX and have little grooves in the bottom of the treads to help in mud and snow so but better than summer tyres and we'll risk that one! 4x4 too so helps with traction though not of course, stopping-lots forget that! 

 

In the uk quite the reverse used to apply-you had to let insurers know you had fitted winter tyres-at a cost for the admin fee if it applied-however many have now signed up to a universal agreement that doesn't require it-i used to ring up and moan at the charge-didn't seem fair for making my car safe in the winter that i was penalised by extra cost. And believe me if it is icy or snows they make a difference-my wife moved quite happily in the snow last year, having to pass a 4x4 that had no traction!  She drives a Mini Roadster S! 

5 minutes ago, CommanderDave said:
2 minutes ago, Jezzerb said:

 

Of course they do-they get to sell another set of tyres-it's safer on winter tyres of course but if you drive accordingly I never had an issue-just that it is safer in the winter on winter tyres, they're on different wheels so save my lovely summer alloys from the dreaded corrosion and actually don't in the long run cost that much more-cost of tyres is outweighed by halving each set's miles. I change them myself or there is a cost there and can store them or there is another cost! Each time i swap them I rotate them too so we get even wear-another bonus as we can then replace a whole set rather than 2 (hopefully!).

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1 hour ago, Durbanite said:

Is there any UK legislation that states you must not use summer tyres in the winter?

Not here, but if you go to Norway, then using winter tyres in winter is the law.

 

I've recently re-shod my car with Tigar summer tyres 255 45 18.  Seem OK so far (1500 miles) Cheap as chips at just over £50 from ATSEuromaster (owned by Michelin) with their Club60 discount for people over 60 years old. You need to join for free.

 

Tigar are owned by Michelin and are manufactured in Serbia.  Been going since 1935

Edited by Wunny
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Laws for winter tyre fitment differ across most of Northern Europe.

 

Some stipulate that in Ice/Snow you must have suitable tyres fitted for the conditions. That would probably suit the UK. 

You can keep your summer tyres on all year but don't drive out in snow.

 

That would save the UK grinding to a halt at the first sign of snow.

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It's not the tyres that are dangerous if you drive according to the conditions.  It's the idiot inches behind who's clueless.  Also you get a minority of 4x4 drivers who see ice and snow as an opportunity to prove their car.  

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11 minutes ago, rovinmad said:

It's not the tyres that are dangerous if you drive according to the conditions.  

 

I'd agree a decade or two ago but not now.

 

The tyre that modern cars are coming with would be classed as extreme high performance rubber a few years ago.

 

In the 70's and early 80's a common tyre would be the Goodyear Grand Prix S. A good all rounder and OK in the snow.  Driving to the conditions was sound advice.

image.thumb.png.ff165def6dc50038862babbbf848532a.png

 

 

Today we have cars fitted with high performance rubber from many brands rated to 186mph at high loads and high temperatures. 

These Michelin's were standard fit on our BMW.

image.png.5f7b62b999c6ee99587959a083ba0666.png

 

It doesn't matter who the driver is you cannot drive to the conditions with those tyres on in Snow and Ice. The slightest incline you will either be stuck or heading for the nearest impact.

Edited by logiclee

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