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Just seen on the RAC website;

Breathalysers must be able to be fitted into all new cars from 2022 following a landmark decision by the European Council.

The technology, that could prevent drink-drivers from starting their engines, was approved in March but has only just been rubber-stamped by European officials last week.

The UK’s position is yet to be confirmed, but the current Government has previously said it will mirror European road safety rules post-Brexit.

Cars made before 2022 will have to comply with the new rules by 2024. Road safety charity Brake has labelled the move the “biggest leap forward for road safety this century”.

 

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More to go wrong ........ and anyone can blow into it not the driver ? 

 

Cars are sold into a European market would need to comply where ever they are made .

 

Dave

Edited by CommanderDave

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I wonder who is going to subsidise the fitting into pre-2022 vehicles and will it be part of the MOT test?  I wonder how the MOT person is going to test whether it is working or not.  I am wondering what percentage of drivers drive while over the limit and whether these measures are really justified.  Before any one jumps down my throat I like to think that the majority of drivers on the UK roads are law abiding and yes we had a relative very badly injured by a drunk driver driving the wrong way down a one way street.  Not sure why the law abiding drivers that never drink should also be penalised?

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How will it cope with the differing legal limits across Europe, indeed how will it cope with the different limit in Scotland compared to the rest of the UK?

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20 minutes ago, Allan Guest said:

Just seen on the RAC website;

Breathalysers must be able to be fitted into all new cars from 2022 following a landmark decision by the European Council.

The technology, that could prevent drink-drivers from starting their engines, was approved in March but has only just been rubber-stamped by European officials last week.

The UK’s position is yet to be confirmed, but the current Government has previously said it will mirror European road safety rules post-Brexit.

Cars made before 2022 will have to comply with the new rules by 2024. Road safety charity Brake has labelled the move the “biggest leap forward for road safety this century”.

 

The important words in that report is "able to be fitted"I wouldn't worry about it, I am sure they will provide sterilising wipes to clean the blow pipe between users - Oh I forgot, they will of course be alcohol based :blush: 

Never mind, we won't be allowed to drive our own cars anywhere soon the way if our lords and masters have their way.

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Unless otherwise stated, my posts will be my personal thoughts and have the same standing as any other member of Caravan Talk.

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23 minutes ago, Allan Guest said:

Breathalysers must be able to be fitted into all new cars from 2022 following a landmark decision by the European Council.

More interference in our daily lives from across the channel - it's not April first already is it?

Lurkio

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2 minutes ago, Black Grouse said:

How will it cope with the differing legal limits across Europe, indeed how will it cope with the different limit in Scotland compared to the rest of the UK?

If you read the original post, it says "Breathalysers must be able to be fitted" not "must be fitted". So the car just needs to have somewhere to plug one in and an interface for it to an immobiliser. The device itself can be country/region specific, and not necessarily fitted to all cars.

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24 minutes ago, CommanderDave said:

More to go wrong ........ and anyone can blow into it not the driver ? 

 

 

 

Dave

why would they come out with this ruling, what's the point? As quoted , anyone can blow into it.  I understand that  in France you have to have breathalysers  in your car, again , why?  How will they monitor drugs, social or prescription drugs, as I believe they also cause  problems ?

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Just now, Stevan said:

If you read the original post, it says "Breathalysers must be able to be fitted" not "must be fitted". So the car just needs to have somewhere to plug one in and an interface for it to an immobiliser. The device itself can be country/region specific, and not necessarily fitted to all cars.

 

Even when eventually fitted, what happens with cross-border trips - if my car's device is set to Englands 35 whatsits and then I go on holiday to Scotland where it's 22, or anywhere in mainland Europe where it's 22 or lower?

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In addition to the in-car breathalyser, approval has also been given to the compulsory fitment on new vehicles of intelligent speed limiters capable of reading road signs or relying on real time speed restriction data transmitted to the vehicle.

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I think that the principle behind this is fairly laudable but the practicalities will make it virtually valueless. As has been pointed out what’s to stop someone other than the driver providing the sample? My missus could get into the driving seat, blow into the machine for a negative test then I (suitably “refreshed”) can replace her and drive off. What if I stop at the corner shop to buy a paper, Will I have to “blow in the bag” when I get back into the car? Will it take a photograph of the providee?

Now THERES a business opportunity if ever I saw one,

 

Clearly a very ill thought out idea by some EU numpty who understands nothing about how impossible it would be to operate effectively. 

 

As for the retro fitting that will never happen for the simple reason the breathalyser will need to be fully integrated into the vehicles ECU and if you buy a new car today that feature ISNT present. Plus of course it’s entirely possible that a new car bought today will still be on the road in 2022 AND 2024. Who is going to pay for the retro fitting?  I bet it won’t be cheap!

 

From a (previous) professional point of view I see this as a totally over the top solution to a VERY small problem for the simple reason that it’s is a very tiny proportion of drivers that are on the road at any one time that have consumed ANY alcohol, let alone alcohol to excess. As has been stated previously drug driving is, according to my pals who are still serving coppers, a MUCH bigger problem now than drink driving, possibly because you can smell alcohol on a drivers breath very easily, you cannot smell drugs! (And drugs are cheaper than booze!) 

 

Andy

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2 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

My missus could get into the driving seat, blow into the machine for a negative test then I (suitably “refreshed”) can replace her and drive off.

If I could do that I could have paid for a chauffeur with the money saved on my wife's drinks!

Seat sensors could be used to prevent the scenario you mention and, whilst I agree with many of your points, I posted as I have never seen any hints at this previously so thought it worthy of a wider readership-and comment!

Hi, just did a quick Google on the thread title and it comes up with a UK company who already provide such equipment, Alcolock GB, and one of their customers is National Express-so its already more than just a 'good idea'.

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28 minutes ago, Allan Guest said:

 

Seat sensors could be used to prevent the scenario you mention and, whilst I agree with many of your points, I posted as I have never seen any hints at this previously so thought it worthy of a wider readership-and comment!

 

 

And, like me, I am sure you can see the problems with such a system.

 

29 minutes ago, Allan Guest said:

 

Hi, just did a quick Google on the thread title and it comes up with a UK company who already provide such equipment, Alcolock GB, and one of their customers is National Express-so its already more than just a 'good idea'.

 

Interesting!  

 

Somewhere at the back of my mind I think I recall an incident some years ago where a National Express coach was involved in a serious RTC and the driver was found to be over the drink drive limit? That might explain why they are customers of Alcolock (not to be confused with Alko WHEEL lock) 

 

 Or did I imagine it (that is entirely possible!) 

 

Andy

Experience is an awful teacher who ends up sending you simply horrifying bills

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I remember that the driver’s manual for my Volvo about 15 years ago had a section on the use of the in-car breathalyser.

 

There were 2 security measures - a camera which took a picture of the driver whilst blowing (not sure if they had facial recognition then though) and then a rolling test which made you stop and re-test after a random amount of time.

 

I think that convicted drink-drivers in the US have had to have these ‘alcolocks’ fitted for some years now (not to be confused with the wheel-lock on an Alko chassis😁)

 

John

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I imagine there will be a market for systems that bypass this measure.

 

Not because people want to drive while intoxicated, but because of the hassle of doing this.

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It was on our local news that drug driving is becoming a bigger problem than drink driving, so I guess by the time the breathalyser is in force it will be obsolete.

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I know of one local bus/coach company who's drivers have to pass a breathalyser every time before taking a vehicle out of the yard, they used to sub contract National Express. Some of their coaches have a built in system but other drivers have to take a manual test.

 

From my employers point of view, all drivers are subject to random breath tests.

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As mentioned previously how will that work for a delivery driver who has to make several or more stops during the day?  Also I think many people will not be able to get to work the next day if they have been partying the night previously even though they have taken a taxi home.  I would guess that many people fall into this category as it takes a lot longer than 8 hours rest to clear a couple of beers or whiskies out of your system. 

IMHO it is also a very discriminatory measure for people who do not drink.  As mentioned it cannot pick up drugs so may be unfairly targetting a sector of the population.  I can see this going to European Rights Court and being appealed.  After all why should someone who never drinks pay for the device fitted to their new car and even pay for the facility?

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Volvo have been fitting Alkameters (I'm sure its not spelled that way) for a few years. My 10 year old V70 has it in the hand book as an option. Its linked to another gadget which identifies the driver from heart beat.  The gadgets require no physical contact. 

When the breathalyser came into force we were all disgruntled about it - civil rights and all that - but now its a part of daily life. There are verification methods and operating standards and tolerances, so that mistakes in law enforcement are virtually unheard of. I believe government and the authorities have been proven right about that, and agree completely with this latest proposal. I expect and hope UK will harmonise. If its done properly we have nothing to fear (and I am one who really likes a tipple).

Ern

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22 minutes ago, Ern said:

When the breathalyser came into force we were all disgruntled about it

The clear difference of this proposal seems to be that rather than have deterrents that discourage, if you get caught you pay the penalty-but how many don't get caught-it will be actually prevent the 'drunk' from driving.

 

I can see the thinking behind many of the points put forward but can also see an emotive, and difficult to counter, argument that trumps most if not all.

 

As things stand may not stop you being prosecuted as,I believe, the offence is being drunk in charge?

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Your not sure wether you are under the limit to drive so you get in your car..turn on the ignition to activate the breathalyser which shows you are over the limit.

You are then immediately charged with being in control of a vehicle while over the drink drive limit.

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