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10p off fuel

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On ‎24‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 08:27, David 38 said:

Did not realise one could change choice of fuel mid stream and what size are the drums for the diesel?

Use the same pump but different nozzle----cost is worked out per pump.

£10 is better in my pocket than Wullie Morrison's.

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On 24/11/2019 at 09:14, Black Grouse said:

 

Legal maximum of 1x 10 litre steel and 2x 5 litre plastic.

 

21 hours ago, Idleness said:

For petrol that is true.

However for diesel its not true.

 

 

So what are the rules for diesel?  The common steel jerrycan is 20 litres BTW.

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3 hours ago, Wildwood said:

It is a ruse to get you to spend plenty though as having had to deal with supermarkets I do know that big shops mean more profits as they can get more through the checkouts in the same time.

 

I think it's more the latter, ie to encourage people to consolidate their shopping. Small lots are a pain to them which is why they introduced self-checkouts : primarily for those.

 

We seem to have no trouble spending over £60 in the weekly food shop, although we put some importance on eating good stuff, and a bottle of wine takes a bite out of the bill. Moreover, supermarkets don't just sell food.

 

I am running on 10% off fuel about half the time as Tescos often do this promotion, and I can get 18 gallons in.

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You can transport and store diesel oil without the restriction placed on petrol.  A twenty-litre jerry can is a hefty lump if you want to pour it into a car's tank.  You could just use a battery-operated transfer pump which is twenty quid or less.

Sealey TP80 is one.

 

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19 minutes ago, kelper said:

  You could just use a battery-operated transfer pump which is twenty quid or less.

 

Back in the mid 1990's after Eurotunnel had opened, it wasn't proving to be as popular as expected so they made various offers.   One of them was a frequent traveller scheme.   Within the scheme was the offer for a  12 hour return trip starting after 18.00hrs for just £13-return.   With Folkestone being an easy drive from home, we did the trip about every 6 weeks.   Besides the wine, I brought back two black plastic waste-water cans filled with  20 litres of diesel in each.   In those days,  French diesel was about 60% of the English equivalent.    To transfer the fuel to a car tank, I used a plastic squeezy  bulb which set up a syphon in a plastic tube.    

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Where we live fuel prices are 6p to 10p more expensive. Our local Morrisons hasn't got a fuel stn. As my commute to work is 40miles round trip, I go out of my way  an extra 1.5 miles, once a week and fill up at another Morrisons, saving myself, on a top up, once a week. Using my 'More' card to earn points for money off for a Christmas spend. We don't spend £60 in one spend, that often so the extra 10p off won't happen?

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3 hours ago, Bolingbroke said:

 

 

So what are the rules for diesel?  The common steel jerrycan is 20 litres BTW.

There is a restriction that you can only store 30l of fuel at home without permission and 275l with, the problem comes when garages impose the petrol limits on diesel.......

I have done 3 jerry cans at a 24hr card self-service and it went straight to the boat diesel tank ;)

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8 minutes ago, Idleness said:

There is a restriction that you can only store 30l of fuel at home without permission and 275l with, the problem comes when garages impose the petrol limits on diesel.......

I have done 3 jerry cans at a 24hr card self-service and it went straight to the boat diesel tank ;)

Would it not be more cost effective to use "red" diesel in a boat? :rolleyes:

Edited by Flat_at
I can spell but my fingers can't

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3 minutes ago, Flat_at said:

Would it not be more cost effective to use "red" diesel in a boat? :rolleyes:

 

Red diesel can't be used for boat propulsion - where a boat uses diesel for both propulsion and heating, etc the owner has to declare the % used and pay tax on the relevant %.

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12 hours ago, Idleness said:

There is a restriction that you can only store 30l of fuel at home without permission and 275l with, the problem comes when garages impose the petrol limits on diesel.......

I have done 3 jerry cans at a 24hr card self-service and it went straight to the boat diesel tank ;)

That covers petrol, not diesel.

 

According to this https://www.gov.uk/oil-storage-regulations-and-safety/home you can store up tp 3,500 litres of oil in a tank at your home and more if you comply with the business regs.  

 

Good and current advice from RYA  here 

https://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/SecureDocs/legal/Club_Zone/08_Club_Premises/04_Laws_and_Regulations/CARRIAGE AND STORAGE OF PETROL AND DIESEL.pdf

 

"There are no specific legal requirements on how to store diesel or the quantity allowed either in workplaces or domestic premises.

The carriage of petrol or diesel by private individuals in a vehicle where the fuel is intended for their personal or domestic use, including their leisure or sporting activities, is exempt from the general restrictions on the carriage of dangerous goods by road. However, where fuel is carried in refillable containers filled by or for a private individual, the total quantity transported must not exceed 240 litres at a time and each individual container must not contain more than 60 litres. In addition, the individual must take measures to prevent the containers from leaking. Notwithstanding the general limit of 60 litres per container, it is worth noting that the individual local authority petroleum licence under which a filling station operates may impose a limit on the capacity of individual containers that may be filled with fuel at that filling station. In addition, filling station operators can apply their own limits on the capacity of individual containers that may be filled with fuel."

Edited by kelper

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On 25/11/2019 at 20:46, Flat_at said:

Would it not be more cost effective to use "red" diesel in a boat? :rolleyes:

Yes and no!

white diesel from a supermarket can be cheaper than red diesel bought from a boatyard depending on how much tax you elect to pay ;)

100% propulsion red is almost always more expensive

60% propulsion / 40% domestic  red sometimes more expensive sometimes not it depends on the boatyard

100% domestic red is cheaper.

Some boatyards will not sell at other than 60/40 split normally these are the ones where red is more expensive.

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On 27/11/2019 at 19:42, Idleness said:

Yes and no!

white diesel from a supermarket can be cheaper than red diesel bought from a boatyard depending on how much tax you elect to pay ;)

100% propulsion red is almost always more expensive

60% propulsion / 40% domestic  red sometimes more expensive sometimes not it depends on the boatyard

100% domestic red is cheaper.

Some boatyards will not sell at other than 60/40 split normally these are the ones where red is more expensive.

So (silly question time) if I buy 100% propulsion red diesel from a boatyard I can put it into my car tank and use it on the road because I have paid the duty on it (proved by keeping the receipt), then use agricultural red for a while then go back to the boatyard for another full tank and a fresh receipt?;)

Edited by Flat_at
Sausage fingers

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11 hours ago, Flat_at said:

So (silly question time) if I buy 100% propulsion red diesel from a boatyard I can put it into my car tank and use it on the road because I have paid the duty on it (proved by keeping the receipt), then use agricultural red for a while then go back to the boatyard for another full tank and a fresh receipt?;)

It is illegal to use red diesel in a vehicle on the road. Red diesel is specifically dyed to identify it for off road use only because of the reduced duty paid. Full duty cannot be paid at the point of sale for road use. If caught with it in a road vehicle, the vehicle will be seized until the owed duty is paid.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/fuels-for-use-in-vehicles-excise-notice-75

 

https://www.gov.uk/report-red-diesel-used-on-public-roads

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I wonder if it is legal to use paraffin in a vehicle in the UK if you pay the duty difference?  Many older diesels can run on cooking oil either new or recycled.  I think they are allowed up to a certain amount before they have to pay duty.

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5 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

I wonder if it is legal to use paraffin in a vehicle in the UK if you pay the duty difference?  Many older diesels can run on cooking oil either new or recycled.  I think they are allowed up to a certain amount before they have to pay duty.

 

No - paraffin/kerosene is treated like red diesel.

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4 hours ago, Durbanite said:

  Many older diesels can run on cooking oil either new or recycled.  I think they are allowed up to a certain amount before they have to pay duty.

 

When Rudolf Diesel invented his first engine, he designed it to run on peanut oil so older engines that have mechanical injection can run on old vegetable oil - providing it's filtered.   I know several guys who used to run their PSA XUD engines on home produced oil.   The engine runs fine providing the oil hasn't thickened with cold.  In cold weather some form of heating is required.   Some guys started the engine on regular diesel, then when the engine warmed up they switch to veggie.   The trouble with the XUD engine was that if a Bosch pump was fitted, it was ok.   If a Lucas pump was fitted, the oil caused the seals to swell and eventually to leak.   A very expensive repair which far out-weighed any saving on fuel price.      My daughter has an XUD car which she's had for 22 years and I remember when she used to buy the occasional can of vegetable oil to put in her tank.   But so many people were doing it, that the price increased.    Any private individual can produce fuel for personal use up to 2500ltrs per year without paying tax.   However, records need to be kept giving dates of production and when used.   Records need to be available for six years.

PSA produced their first HDI engine by using an XUD engine fitted with an electronic injection system.

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8 hours ago, Durbanite said:

I wonder if it is legal to use paraffin in a vehicle in the UK if you pay the duty difference?  Many older diesels can run on cooking oil either new or recycled.  I think they are allowed up to a certain amount before they have to pay duty.

It's not a case of whether it's legal if you pay duty, it's illegal to travel on the road using dyed fuel unless you're an authorised vehicle (agricultural, building site etc)

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9 minutes ago, Guzzilazz said:

It's not a case of whether it's legal if you pay duty, it's illegal to travel on the road using dyed fuel unless you're an authorised vehicle (agricultural, building site etc)

There are also strict mileage limits for use on public roads, (nominally sufficient to allow a tractor to use the roads between fields on a farm, but not enough for longer journeys).

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35 minutes ago, Stevan said:

There are also strict mileage limits for use on public roads, (nominally sufficient to allow a tractor to use the roads between fields on a farm, but not enough for longer journeys).

I was in a massive queue behind a tractor on the A14 a few weeks back. He never pulled over for well over 5miles. Does that count as between fields I wonder?

I eventually managed to overtake several, less confident drivers plus him ....only to see the ‘individual‘, in my mirror, eventually turning off the road. (Sod’s law)

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15 hours ago, Guzzilazz said:

It's not a case of whether it's legal if you pay duty, it's illegal to travel on the road using dyed fuel unless you're an authorised vehicle (agricultural, building site etc)

Surely paraffin, kerosene or cooking oil are not dyed?

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22 hours ago, ericfield said:

I was in a massive queue behind a tractor on the A14 a few weeks back. He never pulled over for well over 5miles. Does that count as between fields I wonder?

I eventually managed to overtake several, less confident drivers plus him ....only to see the ‘individual‘, in my mirror, eventually turning off the road. (Sod’s law)

Many tractors exceed the mileage limit (1.5Km for agricultural vehicles) and should therefore, not use red diesel.

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33 minutes ago, Stevan said:

Many tractors exceed the mileage limit (1.5Km for agricultural vehicles) and should therefore, not use red diesel.

 

You can travel as far as you like on red diesel providing you are performing a task, which is solely agricultural.

https://www.fwi.co.uk/machinery/dissecting-red-diesel-rules

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43 minutes ago, Black Grouse said:

 

You can travel as far as you like on red diesel providing you are performing a task, which is solely agricultural.

https://www.fwi.co.uk/machinery/dissecting-red-diesel-rules

The rules are complex in the extreme, not to mention there being grey areas.

In the example quoted by ericfield he did not mention a trailer, or mounted attachment, so it is unlikely that the journey was "solely agricultural" for over 5 miles, possible, but not likely.

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I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong but . . .

My understanding is that you can legally purchase and store petrol in a can up to 10 litres if it is made of plastic, and 20 litres if metal and they are UN Certified by an Approved Test House and embossed with the Certification number.

I do not believe there is a legal limit on the number of cans that can be filled but there may be a limit imposed by the fuel supplier, and common sense would dictate that you only store a minimal quantity in one location.

Below are containers similar to those I use and the cans are never stored together, or filled at the same time.

The Jerry can holds 20 litres and is used for fueling the boat's outboard motor tank, the green 5 litre can is for unleaded petrol used with my lawn mower, and the red 5 litre can is a hangover from the days of four star leaded petrol but is now filled with a 16:1 two stroke mix for powered garden tools.

image.pngimage.pngimage.png

When I briefly owned a diesel Landrover Discovery I also had a 10 litre black plastic container for diesel but I passed that on when I sold the vehicle.

image.png

Previously I have also owned various styles of one gallon metal petrol cans, all of which have been discarded when they started to weep fuel at the joints.

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