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Rich1867

Pageant moselle damp repair

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Hi everyone,  brand new to the forum and here to get any nuggets of info I can before and when I start my damp repairs. After spending a long time reading through threads already, I can see there's a lot of helpful people that might be able to get me through with an intact van by the end! 

 

I have a 2004 Bailey Pageant Moselle and had it serviced in June and no damp was found. In August we took it from our home near Basingstoke all the way up the west coast of England/Scotland up to Scoury and back down the East coast home over a three week period and had no problems.

 

This week we took it to Alton Towers for three days and on arrival noticed the under seat cupboard was damp, which we first thought was condensation, as it was so cold outside. On further investigation there is a 12" long obvious section of spongy, swollen wall about an inch or 2 thick starting from halfway between between the front left window and the left side window, travelling backwards. It's at the level of just below the top of the seating back cushions.

 

From what I've read on here I'm led to believe its leaking from either one of the two window seals, the awning rail, or the outside aluminium joint. Next weekend I plan to start stripping it out and having a look. I'm a mechanical by trade and will have access to the workshop over weekends and it will be stored outside close to the workshop inbetween. 

 

I'm hoping to add pictures once I start and keeping this thread updated. But before I start does anyone have any top tips/ideas that will make the job easier as I go?

 

Appreciate any help on this as I'm a bit daunted to what I'll find to be honest.

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Welcome!

Firstly get it under cover to stop it getting any worse.

Then strip the inner wallboards away  where they are spongy to inspect what is behind. If you are (very) lucky you have caught it before the timbers have rotted, and the job is very much easier.

Any timbers that are black and crumbly will need to be replaced.

Get yourself a damp meter to check out the rest of the van before starting the job proper.

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25 minutes ago, Stevan said:

Welcome!

Firstly get it under cover to stop it getting any worse.

Then strip the inner wallboards away  where they are spongy to inspect what is behind. If you are (very) lucky you have caught it before the timbers have rotted, and the job is very much easier.

Any timbers that are black and crumbly will need to be replaced.

Get yourself a damp meter to check out the rest of the van before starting the job proper.

Thanks Stevan, I wont be able to get it under building cover Mon-Fri, but we do have a cover. Is it worth putting this on during the week?

I've bought a damp meter, it turned up yesterday but I'm in Newcastle until Wednesday now, so cant touch it until Thursday. I'm hoping because  it seemed fine in August and only noticeable this week, we've caught it early. Though reading peoples experiences, I should probably go in expecting the worst!!!!

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I would put the cover on, as it will as previously commented - stop any further ingress of water.

 

I think you may be lucky, if the previous service report did not find damp - then it may be a recent development?

 

Take your time removing everything and bag / label it with masking tape etc. Take video or photos of things as a reminder!

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18 minutes ago, VinnyE said:

I would put the cover on, as it will as previously commented - stop any further ingress of water.

 

I think you may be lucky, if the previous service report did not find damp - then it may be a recent development?

 

Take your time removing everything and bag / label it with masking tape etc. Take video or photos of things as a reminder!

I'm hoping it's a really decent development, bit it was quite a shock seeing the wall so swollen. I'll get the cover on as soon as I'm back wednesday night. Good tip to take pictures and label during removal, I'll definitely Italy fo that, as I'm no the most organised. Can anyone confirm how easy it is to remove the units and wallboards?

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Glad you liked the documentation idea, sometimes we get back to doing things a lot later than planned, and photos help a lot!

Most things on a caravan interior can be removed fairly easily!

It sometimes takes a little time looking around and GENTLY pulling on things to find out where and how they are attached!

If you would be happy taking a kitchen apart in a house - you can do a caravan.

PS dont smash everything with a hammer to take it out!  If that's how you do it in a house! ;)

 

Edited by VinnyE
more information added.

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Its an absolute must to take the wallboards off, it's usually slightly worse than you expect.

 

On my senator there was very little by way of external clues as to what was going on. A slight bubble in a wallboard was all that could be seen until the boards were removed.

 

IMG_0634s.thumb.jpg.afebb6fb63845a3fedc75b1c218f5ed2.jpg

 

IMG_0635s.thumb.jpg.e869b1267af9c7f0bd41b01860d402bf.jpg

 

IMG_0636s.thumb.jpg.c48b9b9610e69199b8041a249f736967.jpg

 

IMG_0637s.thumb.jpg.5052a6426687bab6d9fd2a683455144b.jpg

 

IMG_0768s.thumb.jpg.25e79f8a673aa621e30906a71976aceb.jpg

 

And then all back together, cant tell any work has been done.

 

IMG_0769s.thumb.jpg.1926726c65a3f0a796c808954edef343.jpg

 

 

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On 07/11/2019 at 10:43, AJGalaxy2012 said:

Its an absolute must to take the wallboards off, it's usually slightly worse than you expect.

 

On my senator there was very little by way of external clues as to what was going on. A slight bubble in a wallboard was all that could be seen until the boards were removed.

 

IMG_0634s.thumb.jpg.afebb6fb63845a3fedc75b1c218f5ed2.jpg

 

IMG_0635s.thumb.jpg.e869b1267af9c7f0bd41b01860d402bf.jpg

 

IMG_0636s.thumb.jpg.c48b9b9610e69199b8041a249f736967.jpg

 

IMG_0637s.thumb.jpg.5052a6426687bab6d9fd2a683455144b.jpg

 

IMG_0768s.thumb.jpg.25e79f8a673aa621e30906a71976aceb.jpg

 

And then all back together, cant tell any work has been done.

 

IMG_0769s.thumb.jpg.1926726c65a3f0a796c808954edef343.jpg

 

 

Wow AJ, impressive repair. Was it obvious where it was leaking from?

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Managed to get it in the workshop earlier for a couple of hours and took some readings and removed the seat.

 

20191108_160700__1573256784_61428.jpg.c07b73cd7777250e336b56bce6945be6.jpg

 You can see the line from below the left window, extending to the front now.

 

20191108_160758__1573256842_82329.thumb.jpg.b23fd0b2a30fd220fcbeaebe5888b5b1.jpg20191108_160845__1573256900_33495.thumb.jpg.343983c9663dfce6e33a28f2727bbd24.jpg

20191108_160907__1573256942_33766.thumb.jpg.7986957ee7a82bb3668aff64d3a25cf2.jpg

Three damp meter readings along it from centre to front.

 

20191108_180036__1573257024_75614.thumb.jpg.83cb151c896f755007eead95a64df5f0.jpg

Seats out, but I have fixings in the wall I'm not sure about, they look like a screw type rivet, photo below. Can anyone give any advice on them?

 

20191108_235132.jpg.42b7310f25afeb224ddecefb4db994b9.jpg

 

Hoping to have a full day on it tomorrow and get everything out, identifying full extent of the damage and where its leaking from.

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They are pop rivets but three  legs splay out behind rather than just the rivet clinching up.

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Have you also tested for damp above the window?

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3 hours ago, Tuningdrew said:

They are pop rivets but three  legs splay out behind rather than just the rivet clinching up.

Thanks Drew, do you just drill the heads off like standard ones to remove?

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If you're taking the wallboard off I'd leave them in. Trying to drill them out will probably only spin them causing further damage.  An alternative would be a dremel with a thin cutting disc to cut the heads off.

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15 hours ago, Rich1867 said:

Wow AJ, impressive repair. Was it obvious where it was leaking from?

It was a hairline crack (looked like a fine pencil line) in the rear panel. Drilled holes to stop it, melted some ABS with acetone and pushed it into the crack from holes at either end, invisible repair and all is good.

 

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Well if theres one thing I've learnt so far, it's that I'm gonna need a lot more time to sort this out than I thought. All the furniture and cupboards in the van are stapled together and a nightmare to remove. I managed to get the left hand, top cupboards out today, just need to remove the front top cupboard now before removing the wall boards to inspect the frame damage.

 

Secondly I discovered this at the top of the front fibreglass panel,  where it joins the roof skin!!! Pretty sure this is the reason for my spongy wall, although I took damp readings at the top of the van, and they were a consistently reading 14-15%. If it were coming in from this crack wouldnt the entire wall be wet from the top?

 

20191109_163433__1573324781_94313.thumb.jpg.0b7f1be714db0f2c19c439d4272b60e6.jpg

 

There's also a small tiny crack in it slightly lower down!!

 

20191109_163445__1573324820_88913.thumb.jpg.e479b78345d33e2324d369139cddae3f.jpg

 

The joining piece of metal looks like it's been removed before, as someone has etched an F and an arrow on it, probably to remind them which way round it goes. Makes me wonder whether this is an issue visited before.

20191109_164731__1573324886_75325.thumb.jpg.d8b77adddf68406ed0d15be4ddd0a9c6.jpg

 

I've removed the metal strip, plan to remove and clean all previous sealant and repair the crack and reseal. There is a wet non-cured sealant under the metal and a set clear silicone type sealant sealing the edges. Can anyone clarify what brand/products I should replace these with?

20191109_164759__1573325005_72206.thumb.jpg.f33047e594d00f1a9ff350194d6d05dc.jpg

 

20191109_164924__1573325049_37083.thumb.jpg.3b26c227fcb501e53307e0c87918e7ae.jpg

Thanks for looking and all the help already, any more help/advice would be very appreciated following todays turn.

Edited by Rich1867

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Yep, those cracks will definitely do it!

 

Make sure you drill a hole at the end of the crack to stop it going further, then fill / repair it with your chosen method. I stole some ABD from my 'A' frame cover where it isnt seen, melted it in a glass jar with acetone to make into a toothpaste consistency.  I painted the crack with acetone and then worked the toothpaste into the crack, smoothed it off with a gloved finger and then finally 1200 grit wet and dry (used wet), then T Cut and a final polish. The crack and repair cannot be seen at all.

 

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Still working away slowly. Parts are taking an age to get me, forecast to get the first batch next friday. I've decided in this time that I'm going to reseal the awning rails and window seals too. Dont want to seal the roof strap to find out they're also letting in water. I'm toying with the idea of pulling the entire front panel off to doubly make sure its fully repaired, whilst the awning rails will be off. Has anyone had the front panel off and can advise either for or against going that far? And with regards to the awning rails, I get that you remove the pin,  and remove the awning rail insert to expose the screws. I have no problem identifying this part. But as you look at both pictures on the left hand side is what looks like another seal. I cant seem to buy this on the bailey  parts page. Or replacement rails either.  Can anyone help?

20191117_165352__1574024881_43904.thumb.jpg.f60c3be04bfa355bcf3c527045ad5255.jpg

 

20191117_165359__1574024858_48058.jpg.3a568cef32cf816ab1ffe29d5aacf608.jpg

 To top it off I'm struggling to get the top units out. The centre one  and o/s are being a nightmare to remove as I'm trying to cause as little damage as possible. The struggle is real!!! Water was definitely gettingin from the crack, the beams above the window are reading 35% with part of the wall boards peeled back. Doesnt seem rotten though, will see more once I've removed it all.

20191116_184359__1574025704_54007.thumb.jpg.6a6929b8a68ce949a38ebfe15e57fa9f.jpg

It's getting their though, once I get the parts and make it water tight, it'll be very slow time, reconstructing the interior ready for next summer

IMG_20191116_WA0001__1574025868_96600.jpg.37673064e02075781392907f3ee1f919.jpg

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If you can, get a fan heater and put it on low heat to dry out the van while you are waiting for parts to arrive. 

Good job so far, keep the posts and pictures coming!

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2 hours ago, VinnyE said:

If you can, get a fan heater and put it on low heat to dry out the van while you are waiting for parts to arrive. 

Good job so far, keep the posts and pictures coming!

Thanks Vinny, will put one in this afternoon, though the bay it's on at the minute is quite warm and I should be able to keep it there a while. Do you have any advice about re-sealing the rails? I obviously need a new length of rail insert,S/S screws and mastic, but do I need any other parts? That additional seal in the pictures above doesnt come up on the bailey website, nor do the rails themselves.

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I don't know about the "extra" seal? Maybe someone else will?

I have use Soudal Fix All - which is a non setting sealing mastic type adhesive / sealant. 

I have had really good results around the skylights and also along an aluminium cover plate that runs across the back of my Lunar van. 

Other people swear by another similar type product whose name escapes me at the moment!

Glad you are able to keep the van under cover and warmish - it will definitely help with the drying out ! 

Cold damp air is not conducive to drying anything!

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