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"New" Lunar Press Release re: Warranty on old Lunar

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On 03/11/2019 at 14:54, Stevan said:

That is unfortunate! The supplying dealer is the only one who has a legal responsibility to you.

It is sometimes said that you should choose your dealer as carefully as your caravan.

I have accessed Which consumer rights advice line and they have put a letter together to send to the caravan dealer outlining their responsibilities under CRA. They have 14 days to respond if they can be bothered! Watch this space....

Any other advice would be greatly appreciated. 

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17 hours ago, Kevpaulton said:

I have accessed Which consumer rights advice line and they have put a letter together to send to the caravan dealer outlining their responsibilities under CRA. They have 14 days to respond if they can be bothered! Watch this space....

Any other advice would be greatly appreciated. 

If the caravan is on finance then the finance company is liable.  When we sent our initial letter to the dealer they did even not bother to respond.  Luckily due to past experience we had some finance on the caravan and the finance company responded immediately and also got onto the dealer.  Eventually our issue was resolved and we rejected the caravan.

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Had a Talk with sales manager at my local Lunar Dealer today.

He confirmed that Lunar Automotive are only accepting warranty on 2017, 2018 and 2019 vans for the first 3 years. After that there is nothing and he claimed Dealers have no responsibility for years 4, 5 and 6.

I suggested that might end up being tested in the Courts at some point.

 

As far as new 2019 “Old” Lunar vans are concerned, Lunar Automotive have apparently arranged for buyers who wish to do so to take out an insurance based damp warranty for years 4, 5 and 6, at a cost of £505.

 

That means they are selling new 2019 Clubmans for £19,000 with 3 years normal and 6 years damp warranties, but trade in value against one of those would be basic trade price.

 

 

Edited by hp100425ev

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1 hour ago, hp100425ev said:

After that there is nothing and he claimed Dealers have no responsibility for years 4, 5 and 6.

I suggested that might end up being tested in the Courts at some point.

Could be interesting...
 

If you bought a van with a six year warranty you would reasonably expect the benefits of that warranty to be honoured by the dealer that sold the caravan and thus, the inclusive six year standard warranty to you.  
 

The warranty wasn’t an optional extra but rather it was bought and paid for as part of the caravan purchase.

 

Why would they be responsible for years 1-3 but not years 4-6 given the inclusivity of the standard warranty?

 

 

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Because what is Lunar Caravans now is NOT the same company as it was last year! 

 

It’s a bit like the BHS saga, once purchased by wotisname from that nice Mr Green all of the liabilities that previously existed disappeared. It was only public opinion that made Mr Green stump up the money to (partially) plug the pension fund black hole. 

 

I appreciate it doesn't seem  right or fair, but that’s how the business world operates. 

 

Andy

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14 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

Because what is Lunar Caravans now is NOT the same company as it was last year! 

 

It’s a bit like the BHS saga, once purchased by wotisname from that nice Mr Green all of the liabilities that previously existed disappeared. It was only public opinion that made Mr Green stump up the money to (partially) plug the pension fund black hole. 

 

I appreciate it doesn't seem  right or fair, but that’s how the business world operates. 

 

Andy

What seems odd to me is that they are allowed to just carry on trading as though nothing had happened without even changing the name "Lunar" on the front of the vans. I thought that when a company went into administration, a condition of abandoning obligations such as warranty was that there was a visible change of trading name. It now seems that this change is restricted to replacing "Lunar Caravans Ltd" with "Lunar Automotive Ltd" but keeping the name on the badge the same.

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Happens all the time I am afraid. Jaguar (cars) is no longer Jaguar that was, along with Land Rover they are now wholly owned by a Chinese company but they STILL retain the names, same with Lunar! Sorry! 

 

Andy

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23 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

Happens all the time I am afraid. Jaguar (cars) is no longer Jaguar that was, along with Land Rover they are now wholly owned by a Chinese company but they STILL retain the names, same with Lunar! Sorry! 

 

Andy

The BIG difference would be that Jaguar has always changed owners as a going concern and don't think there has ever been any question of warranties on vehicles made under previous owners not being honoured. It's current owners are INDIAN by the way. Apologies for using some of your CAPITAL letters! 

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1 hour ago, Stevan said:

What seems odd to me is that they are allowed to just carry on trading as though nothing had happened without even changing the name "Lunar" on the front of the vans. I thought that when a company went into administration, a condition of abandoning obligations such as warranty was that there was a visible change of trading name. It now seems that this change is restricted to replacing "Lunar Caravans Ltd" with "Lunar Automotive Ltd" but keeping the name on the badge the same.

No, that's not how it works - successor companies buy the brand from the Receiver of the bankrupt company - GM went bust in 2008 but it's brands were transferred to "new" GM and have continued trading.

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14 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

Because what is Lunar Caravans now is NOT the same company as it was last year! 

 

It’s a bit like the BHS saga, once purchased by wotisname from that nice Mr Green all of the liabilities that previously existed disappeared. It was only public opinion that made Mr Green stump up the money to (partially) plug the pension fund black hole. 

 

I appreciate it doesn't seem  right or fair, but that’s how the business world operates. 

 

Andy

Under current law isn't it the responsibility of the supplier if a 6 year warranty was offered with the unit that the buyer bought? 

I am sure that the legislation takes into account that the goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.   Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety. 

Price paid and durability are probably the two  main features of the legislation.  Having the 6 year warranty could be regarded as an incentive for you to have bought that particular brand of unit.  After all the dealership probably had it advertised all over their premises?

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2 hours ago, Durbanite said:

Under current law isn't it the responsibility of the supplier if a 6 year warranty was offered with the unit that the buyer bought? 

I am sure that the legislation takes into account that the goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.   Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety. 

Price paid and durability are probably the two  main features of the legislation.  Having the 6 year warranty could be regarded as an incentive for you to have bought that particular brand of unit.  After all the dealership probably had it advertised all over their premises?

 

You do have a very valid point BUT I believe it’s just the initial 12 month guarantee that the dealer is responsible for because that’s the legal minimum. Any additional warranty period is in addition to the legal requirement and not the retailers responsibility, but the manufacturers, who MAY administer it through the dealer network. If the manufacturer no longer exists, as is the case with Lunar caravans/automotive then who exactly can the customer sue if they have a warranty issue? 

 

  That’s  as I see it (and accept 100% that I could be wrong ) 

 

Andy

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On 08/11/2019 at 17:05, Kevpaulton said:

I have accessed Which consumer rights advice line and they have put a letter together to send to the caravan dealer outlining their responsibilities under CRA. They have 14 days to respond if they can be bothered! Watch this space....

Any other advice would be greatly appreciated. 

 

It might be helpful to others if you could share the content of the Which letter.

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6 minutes ago, hp100425ev said:

 

It might be helpful to others if you could share the content of the Which letter.

 

That way we would ALL know exactly what the legal position is, rather than simply speculate/give our own views.

 

Andy

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10 minutes ago, hp100425ev said:

 

It might be helpful to others if you could share the content of the Which letter.


I would suggest the poster keeps their own council until they have an outcome to report back on, any comments however helpful they may seem could be seen as prejudicial to their claim and could influence the outcome.

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Just now, Grandpa Steve said:


I would suggest the poster keeps their own council until they have an outcome to report back on, any comments however helpful they may seem could be seen as prejudicial to their claim and could influence the outcome.

 

The letter merely points out what the dealers legal responsibilities are, and they are the same in respect of everyone not just the OP (If the OP wishes to remove anything personal to him that would be sensible though)

 

Andy

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Not good for Lunar owners over 3 years old but sad if dealers have dumped  Lunar too. There are some mega bargains to be had out there and since most of the ranges are being carried on at the mo I wouldn't worry about buying one-huge savings to be had at Grantham caravans for eg 9000 off an Alaria TS. Only Venus have been dropped from what I can see and therefore cupboard doors and trim etc will all be available-and of course since caravans are kits of parts ie Thetford, Dometic Truma and Alde there will be no issue finding parts for these. WE ran an Avondale Argente-lovely van-bargain price-as no one wanted them as they 'don't make them any more'. EVERY single issue we had was a simple repair-new tap cartridge, Thetford Toilet pump all sorted very easily from standard caravan shops! 9k savings pays for your damp insurance plus more besides!

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24 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

You do have a very valid point BUT I believe it’s just the initial 12 month guarantee that the dealer is responsible for because that’s the legal minimum. Any additional warranty period is in addition to the legal requirement and not the retailers responsibility, but the manufacturers, who MAY administer it through the dealer network. If the manufacturer no longer exists, as is the case with Lunar caravans/automotive then who exactly can the customer sue if they have a warranty issue? 

 

  That’s  as I see it (and accept 100% that I could be wrong ) 

 

Andy

I think it is valid up to 6 years however after the first 6 months it is up to the consumer to prove that the fault is inherent and existed there on purchase.  I am guessing this is why manufacturers offer a 6 year damp ingress warranty however as the contract is between the supplier and the consumer, it would be the responsibility of the supplier to do any rectification work.  Perhaps S30 "Goods under Guarantee" of CRA 2015 would apply?

Interestingly I have come across this phrase used in the legislation "What is a reasonable time is a question of fact." and I am not exactly sure of how it can be applied after the initial 6 months?  However I did find the following which may be of interest;

Under the law of England and Wales and of Northern Ireland, claims for breach of contract are subject to a limitation period of six years from the date of the breach of contract, whereas in Scottish law the limitation period is five years. Because the protections provided under this Part of the Act operate on the basis of contract law, the consumer has 6 years (or 5 years in Scotland) within which they may pursue remedies for breach of one of the statutory rights. This does not mean that a consumer may seek a remedy under the Act for any fault arising in goods at any time in the six (or five) years following delivery, but only if one of the statutory rights is breached. The statutory right under section 9 (goods to be of satisfactory quality) will only be breached if goods are not of the standard which a reasonable person would consider to be satisfactory, taking into account circumstances including the price and any description given. This test of reasonableness is provided under section 9(2). For example, the statutory right may not be breached and so a consumer would not be able to obtain a remedy if, say, a very cheap kettle stopped working fully after four years, as a reasonable person might not expect a bottom of the range kettle to last that long.

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Coachman carry a three year manufacturer's warranty, six year worry free water ingress and delamination offer, and ten years water ingress for the first owner of the caravan.

Coachman's three year warranty also covers, in the first year, defects but not normal wear and tear. 

Fridges etc are covered by their manufacturers warranty.

I would seem to me that the new owners of Lunar have taken on a lot of responsibility given the history of Lunar manufacturing.

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Our 2017 Clubman is just over 3 years old (collected 24/9/16) and had its 3rd service with no dampness reported.

So no more Lunar warranty.

 

We have looked seriously at changing it and have looked carefully at Bailey and Coachman offerings but can't find anything that suits. We are happy with our current van even though we have generally always changed at between 2 and 3 yearsand are prepared to keep it another 2 years if necessary.

 

I have contacted MG&B regarding insurance cover and they have offered a 2 year policy covering water ingress and mechanical or electrical breakdown for £389 up front payment or £22.95 month (I prefer the one off payment).

 

My thinking is that £389 could well be worth the peace of mind and it would cover more than just water ingress that Lunar would have provided had they still been in existence.

 

Whilst the choice is clearly a personal thing, I would be interested to hear views from others, whether in the same Lunar pickle or not.

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Paying for that cover is a lot cheaper than changing vans!  

 

No-one likes paying for insurance UNTIL the need for a claim arises. It’s all down to how much risk you are prepared to accept and only you can answer that particular question. If you can get hold of a policy document and read it VERY carefully to see exactly what is, and more importantly what ISNT covered.

 

For example what exactly do the insurers consider to be a “mechanical or electrical breakdown” Does it cover the fridge cooker microwave etc or just the chassis mechanicals/electrics or for example? You need to read what is ACTUALLY written and not what you THINK it says. Remember insurance companies are masters at clever wording and have had considerable practice at it! 

 

If you are happy with that sum of money to provide you with peace of mind then it’s good value.

 

Me? I would probably put the money into  premium bonds, buy a damp meter to regularly check the van and, if the need arises surrender the bonds to fund any repair necessary, but I am very practically minded and confident of being able to do most (but not all) repairs. 

 

 Andy

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19 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

Paying for that cover is a lot cheaper than changing vans!  

 

No-one likes paying for insurance UNTIL the need for a claim arises. It’s all down to how much risk you are prepared to accept and only you can answer that particular question. If you can get hold of a policy document and read it VERY carefully to see exactly what is, and more importantly what ISNT covered.

 

For example what exactly do the insurers consider to be a “mechanical or electrical breakdown” Does it cover the fridge cooker microwave etc or just the chassis mechanicals/electrics or for example? You need to read what is ACTUALLY written and not what you THINK it says. Remember insurance companies are masters at clever wording and have had considerable practice at it! 

 

If you are happy with that sum of money to provide you with peace of mind then it’s good value.

 

Me? I would probably put the money into  premium bonds, buy a damp meter to regularly check the van and, if the need arises surrender the bonds to fund any repair necessary, but I am very practically minded and confident of being able to do most (but not all) repairs. 

 

 Andy

 

I have read all the documents which are available on line and it does include electricals like fridge, oven, cooker, heating, microwave and charger.

 

My thought is that £389 wouldn't be missed and wouldn't generate much left in the Bank ( or in premium bonds). A damp repair on the other hand could easily cost well in excess of the premium cost.  We had damp at 1 year old and the estimate for that was over double the cost!

Fortunately all ok since.

Edited by hp100425ev

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I am not a big believer in insurance based services like that BUT that seems a good price for what it covers-read the small print and make sure it really does cover that sort of stuff-even a fridge repair would see you in pocket-we did the same on our Buc-never done it before but paid for 3 years for any electrical item that has more than 1 year warranty-so levelling system, fridge, heating-excludes therefore the water pumps and microwave etc but £399 seemed worth it for 6 years peace of mind even though I am quite handy.

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I’ve now taken out that policy with MB&G.

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