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You mean it’s not 80mph now!!  Must tell OH.

nanamel

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11 hours ago, Grandpa Steve said:

 

I would like to see any vehicle that is speed limited to less than 70 mph restricted to the first 2 lanes on motorways with 4 lanes, and just to lane one on a 3 lane motorway  where there is a sustained uphill section.

 

That would do more for through put of traffic, instead of the lorries all jockeying to gain a 2 mph advantage over the next, blocking 2 lanes but taking 2 miles to achieve it.

 

That won't work on some motorways where the majority of vehicles are HGVs -the outside lane ban on motorways with 3 or more lanes would work for car drivers if their lane discipline was better and moved out of the outside lane once the overtake was complete.

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As others have said, the real problem is too many cars on to few roads.  Not sure about raising the limit for caravans, I remember the first time in Franc when I was overtaken by a car and caravan doing over 100mph, very scary and I wasn't towing at the time.  I think 60mph is just fine.

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On 04/10/2019 at 04:40, AJGalaxy2012 said:

There is some merit on increased speed limit for cars,.................................., it increases the throughput of the road network too. 

 

  No .. recommended spacing between vehicle is at least 2 seconds ,, ie <1800 cars per lane per hour .. regardless of speed

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There is actually evidence to show that slowing all traffic to the same speed increases throughput! Hence the variable speed limits on managed motorways, in which case all vehicles should be allowed in any lane.

 

 

Of course the impatient road hogs would not like it.

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Anyone who has driven any distance in the USA will have observed how everyone keeps to the speed limit and don't lane hop. As a result, the traffic progresses smoothly and stoppages are rare.

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1 hour ago, MalH said:

Anyone who has driven any distance in the USA will have observed how everyone keeps to the speed limit and don't lane hop. As a result, the traffic progresses smoothly and stoppages are rare.

Not according to Hollywood!  LOL!  :D

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Posted (edited)

M62 "rush hour" around J 25/26 you're doing well if you can get up to 30mph! :angry:

Edited by Flat_at
oops
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Decades ago the Road Research Laboratory did some tests on a road in - I think - Berkshire. The speed limit was 30mph but the average (over maybe a month) was 43mph. They then upped the limit to 40mph and the average dropped to 37mph.

 

Also remember that the 70mph limit was set in 1967 when:-

Cars did not have crumple zones

Cars had cross-ply tyres

Seat belts (if fitted) did not have to be used

Cars mostly had drum brakes

Few cars had brake servos

Few cars had laminated windscreens

Air bags were unknown

ABS (and traction control) were unknown

 

I could go on..................

 

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11 minutes ago, Woodentop said:

Decades ago the Road Research Laboratory did some tests on a road in - I think - Berkshire. The speed limit was 30mph but the average (over maybe a month) was 43mph. They then upped the limit to 40mph and the average dropped to 37mph.

 

Also remember that the 70mph limit was set in 1967 when:-

Cars did not have crumple zones

Cars had cross-ply tyres

Seat belts (if fitted) did not have to be used

Cars mostly had drum brakes

Few cars had brake servos

Few cars had laminated windscreens

Air bags were unknown

ABS (and traction control) were unknown

 

I could go on..................

 

I would not choose to contest any of your information but I wonder what your point is! This data, combined with increased traffic volumes and currently lower risk appetite could be used to argue for, or against, lower speed limits.

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4 hours ago, Disco Kid said:

  No .. recommended spacing between vehicle is at least 2 seconds ,, ie <1800 cars per lane per hour .. regardless of speed

It might be recommended, but from my experience when speed restrictions are in place on a motorway the traffic bunches up closer. Then the traffic joining from slip roads force their way in causing lots of sharp braking.  

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2 hours ago, Durbanite said:

Not according to Hollywood!  LOL!  :D

That's one place I've not driven!

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1 hour ago, Woodentop said:

Decades ago the Road Research Laboratory did some tests on a road in - I think - Berkshire. The speed limit was 30mph but the average (over maybe a month) was 43mph. They then upped the limit to 40mph and the average dropped to 37mph.

 

Also remember that the 70mph limit was set in 1967 when:-

Cars did not have crumple zones

Cars had cross-ply tyres

Seat belts (if fitted) did not have to be used

Cars mostly had drum brakes

Few cars had brake servos

Few cars had laminated windscreens

Air bags were unknown

ABS (and traction control) were unknown

 

I could go on..................

 

The evolution of cars has been excellent over these years, trouble is people take a lot longer to evolve. A relative's latest Golf has automatic braking if too close but if it did brake quickly the car behind might not.

 

I thought the variable speed limits on the M62 around Leeds did seem to help reduce queues but they seemed to be applied when not needed and create queues such as near the Ikea turn off. It is a while though since I last did any regular M62 trips.

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Had  to drive a new truck last year, don’t normally have new stuff only had it because nobody else would drive it. That had that automatic braking which I knew nothing about and yes it does anchor up pretty hard as well. 

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27 minutes ago, Paul1957 said:

The evolution of cars has been excellent over these years, trouble is people take a lot longer to evolve. A relative's latest Golf has automatic braking if too close but if it did brake quickly the car behind might not.

 

I thought the variable speed limits on the M62 around Leeds did seem to help reduce queues but they seemed to be applied when not needed and create queues such as near the Ikea turn off. It is a while though since I last did any regular M62 trips.

 

The biggest problem with 'smart' motorways is that they tell you by overhead signs to use the hard shoulder as a running lane, so you pull over. Next thing the overhead sign says to use the hard shoulder for exit nn only, so you end up having to push back into the second  lane which suddenly becomes the inside lane.

 

There is also a problem on some motorways - of which the M1-A1 link SE of Leeds and the following bit of the A1(M) are/were good examples - using an automatic system called MIDAS. The system monitors the speed of traffic and if it is getting too slow it sticks up a speed limit chain - southbound approaching J44 was the example. The problem is that the limit is common across all lanes when in fact the lanes 3 and 4 are not the issue. The problem was that traffic was queueing back onto the carriageway at J44 and then you get an idiot in lane 2 trying to barge into the queue and holding up the traffic in lane 2 that does not want to turn off.

On the A1(M) northbound after the A1 and M1 have joined you get again a common speed limit across all four lanes but the issue is traffic leaving at J44 (for York) queueing, so get to the final gantry before J44 and the A1 has three lanes of 'End.'

Barmy.

 

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SMART MOTORWAY !!!!!! I was on the M 42  traveling north  60 MPH on gantry hard shoulder a running lane .Gantry sign for inside lane junction 6 only my junction I pulled into this lane only to find a car with hazard lights on stopped in a few hundred yards ahead. Lots of brake lights across all lanes.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, g7eor said:

SMART MOTORWAY !!!!!! I was on the M 42  traveling north  60 MPH on gantry hard shoulder a running lane .Gantry sign for inside lane junction 6 only my junction I pulled into this lane only to find a car with hazard lights on stopped in a few hundred yards ahead. Lots of brake lights across all lanes.

 

That's the problem with All Lane Running (ALR) and Dynamic Hard Shoulder (DHS) when a vehicle breaks down - sadly all the NIMBY's come out when Highways England suggests building a parallel motorway to increase capacity so it's the only way available..

Edited by Black Grouse

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One thing I have noticed over the years driving both here and abroad is problems when three lanes merge into two. 

When the inside, slow lane, merges in to lane two there are no problems ,when the outside lane, lane three, merges in to lane two there are always problems.

I have always thought problems could be eased in scenario two by intrducing a chicane thus bringing the traffic into two lanes as in scenario one prior to  the  reason for lane three closure.       

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The problem with all lane running is the distance between refuges. They need to be far closer together so anyone having a problem has a better chance of getting to them.

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6 minutes ago, Wildwood said:

The problem with all lane running is the distance between refuges. They need to be far closer together so anyone having a problem has a better chance of getting to them.

 

The irony is that when they're close enough together to be safe, it would be simple to join them up and make a new hard shoulder!

 

I know from experience how difficult it is to get from lane 3 of a busy motorway to the hard shoulder in the event of engine failure - All Lane Running makes it worse by having concrete barriers right up against lane 1 so you can't even pull onto the verge.

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Going back to the original post i don't particularly want to go faster than 60mph with a caravan in tow but find the 50mph imit on national limit single carriage ways VERY frustrating both for me and fellow drivers as I gather a train stuck behind me and then have to pull over to be polite. Seems wrong to me.

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1 hour ago, Jezzerb said:

Going back to the original post i don't particularly want to go faster than 60mph with a caravan in tow but find the 50mph imit on national limit single carriage ways VERY frustrating both for me and fellow drivers as I gather a train stuck behind me and then have to pull over to be polite. Seems wrong to me.

That 50 limit applies to trucks and vans but not many will stick to it unless there are speed cameras. However, at least when towing you will be at the front of the queue with nice open roads ahead if you do 50. I do though like you pull over sometimes or if there is a section that allows easy overtaking go slow to let others pass but often it just confuses them and some just do not like to overtake.

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1 hour ago, Jezzerb said:

Going back to the original post i don't particularly want to go faster than 60mph with a caravan in tow but find the 50mph imit on national limit single carriage ways VERY frustrating both for me and fellow drivers as I gather a train stuck behind me and then have to pull over to be polite. Seems wrong to me.

 

But the majority of car drivers won't overtake when they do get a clear opportunity, they seem content to sit behind and then winge.

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12 minutes ago, Black Grouse said:

 

But the majority of car drivers won't overtake when they do get a clear opportunity, they seem content to sit behind and then winge.

Some also seem to drive that close they can not see the opportunity to overtake and they make it harder for those behind them who have to try to overtake 2 vehicles in one go.

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21 hours ago, Woodentop said:

Decades ago the Road Research Laboratory did some tests on a road in - I think - Berkshire. The speed limit was 30mph but the average (over maybe a month) was 43mph. They then upped the limit to 40mph and the average dropped to 37mph.

 

I well remember (mid 60's) when a blanket speed limit of 60mph was introduced (petrol shortages?) Before then 40/45mph was considered a reasonable cruising speed, afterwards 60 became the norm!

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