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Alan Stanley

MTPLM weight upgrades available

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We have on many occasions discussed the topic of payload allowances not being high enough and what upgrades are available

 

I note Bailey now has a dedicated page for just this on their website.

 https://www.baileyofbristol.co.uk/owning/weight-plate-upgrades

 

looking at some of them it appears that bending the ears of the design teams and the directors may be getting through. Others are still not adequate but at least we are moving in the right direction.  Well done Bailey for making the information so easily accessed. 

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Shame the upgrades are so measly though!! Mostly in the region of 50kg, which is better than nothing but is easily eaten up with a leisure battery (which Bailey DONT include in the MIRO but say you shouldn’t operate the caravan without??)  and a motor mover. 

 

Been discussed many many times on here.

 

Andy

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I wouldn’t judge them as mostly in the 50 kgs region. The three new ranges Discovery, pheonix and Pegasus mostly have some pretty large (by UK standards) upgrades.  Obviously designed in from day one. 

 

The unicorn remains as is but I suspect that may be to do with avoiding putting an old model in for new type approval paperwork. No upgrade on the Valencia mk4 meant we could never consider it.

 

The  Alecanto with only three models ( testing the market ).  Should have bigger upgrades. 

 

Will be be interesting to see if the Alecanto really takes off or the Unicorn (which is due for a Mk 5 ) remains

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Bailey are very careful to use the term “declared MTPLM” without pointing out that the actual MTPLM is already the higher value and the higher MTPLM is already documented on the existing statutory weight plate.

Edited by Lutz

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Posted (edited)

Our senator had a 250Kg payload.  I miss those days, when it was easy to load the caravan with all the things you needed for a family holiday.  Having to put the heavy stuff in the car to keep within 155kg is much less convenient.

 

After the mover, water/waste and battery (70Kg), the real difference is 180Kg vs 85kg. 

 

The lack of an upgrade on the single axle Unicorn 4s mean that I'd never buy one.  The twin axles look OK though.

Edited by Tigger

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Swift publish any upgrade for every model, and have done for some time now.

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In most cases the available upgrade can be calculated by comparing the MTPLM on the statutory plate with that on the NCC plate. 

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1 hour ago, Tigger said:

Our senator had a 250Kg payload.  I miss those days, when it was easy to load the caravan with all the things you needed for a family holiday.  Having to put the heavy stuff in the car to keep within 155kg is much less convenient.

 

After the mover, water/waste and battery (70Kg), the real difference is 180Kg vs 85kg. 

 

The lack of an upgrade on the single axle Unicorn 4s mean that I'd never buy one.  The twin axles look OK though.

 

Beg to differ. Our U4 Seville was upgraded from 1326Kg to 1450Kg albeit 1450Kg was the already plated weight (in the gas box) and is the weight rating of the axle so no headroom.

 

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Is this trend due to manufacturers trying to keep  declared weight down for post 1997 licence holders. ( B + E test)?

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8 hours ago, Alan Stanley said:

I wouldn’t judge them as mostly in the 50 kgs region. The three new ranges Discovery, pheonix and Pegasus mostly have some pretty large (by UK standards) upgrades.  Obviously designed in from day one. 

 

 

Not entirely correct! 

 

I purchased my new Platinum (Dealer special,Phoenix) in Feb this year, Its ex factory MTPLM was 1397kg, I was able to upgrade it to 1450kg a whole 53 kg extra, whoopee (for sixty five quid to boot)

 

My mate has the Cabrera which is basically a posher finished Phoenix. His ex factory MTPLM is greater than mine at 1450 (with a payload of 155kg) That’s because it’s on the same chassis as mine. No upgrade available to him.

 

Andy

2 minutes ago, Fenester said:

Is this trend due to manufacturers trying to keep  declared weight down for post 1997 licence holders. ( B + E test)?

 

That is certainly my view. If my rig isn’t upgraded it’s just under 1500kg (by three!) with the upgrade it’s 47kg over ! Same flipping a caravan though! 

 

Andy

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23 minutes ago, Woodentop said:

 

Beg to differ. Our U4 Seville was upgraded from 1326Kg to 1450Kg albeit 1450Kg was the already plated weight (in the gas box) and is the weight rating of the axle so no headroom.

 

Yes, I should have highlighted that the 2-berths (seville and merida) have some decent upgrade-ability.  I've not heard of the axles failing on the two-berth models either.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Fenester said:

Is this trend due to manufacturers trying to keep  declared weight down for post 1997 licence holders. ( B + E test)?

 

Certainly. It's a trick that they apply in a very grey area because the 'declared' MTPLM is not covered by any piece of legislation and is therefore of doubtful validity. The caravan would remain just as legal if the 'declared' MTPLM were simply removed.

 

Edited by Lutz

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I researched that very issue a while ago now. There is a VERY lengthy thread on it in the Bailey section. I was unable to get a totally definitive answer but DID have a very long conversation with a vehicle examiner from VOSA who certainly knew his stuff. It was certainly a useful chat!

Bottom line? I paid for the upgrade to save myself from any (POSSIBLE) aggro at a continental roadside with a rozzer who doesn’t speak English. Sixty quid for the upgrade was a very small percentage of the purchase price, I wasn’t happy about it, but had stuff all choice! 

 

Andy

 

 

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Posted (edited)

The weight upgrades coming available now seem to be simply related to the chassis.

As an example, the most popular chassis was rated at 1500kg, and many manufacturers are now using a chassis rated at 1550kgs.

My Lunar Clubman is an example.

2017 model MTPLM 1470kg, chassis maximum 1500kg, upgrade available 30kg.

2019 model MTPLM 1485kg, chassis maximum 1550kg, upgrade available 65kg.

What I would like to know is what is different about the chassis to warrant the extra 50kg loading. In both cases the tyres are exactly the same size and rating.

Makes me wonder whether he previous chassis rated at 1500kg could actually take 1550kg (not that I would do that, just wondering).

Edited by hp100425ev

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, hp100425ev said:

The weight upgrades coming available now seem to be simply related to the chassis.

As an example, the most popular chassis was rated at 1500kg, and many manufacturers are now using a chassis rated at 1550kgs.

My Lunar Clubman is an example.

2017 model MTPLM 1470kg, chassis maximum 1500kg, upgrade available 30kg.

2019 model MTPLM 1485kg, chassis maximum 1550kg, upgrade available 65kg.

What I would like to know is what is different about the chassis to warrant the extra 50kg loading. In both cases the tyres are exactly the same size and rating.

 

Normally that will be the case, yes, but the manufacturer is perfectly at liberty to restrict the MTPLM to a value below the chassis axle rating. Anyway, he can't issue an upgrade if it hasn't been covered by type approval and the type approved MTPLM will be shown on the statutory plate.

 

9 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

I researched that very issue a while ago now. There is a VERY lengthy thread on it in the Bailey section. I was unable to get a totally definitive answer but DID have a very long conversation with a vehicle examiner from VOSA who certainly knew his stuff. It was certainly a useful chat!

Bottom line? I paid for the upgrade to save myself from any (POSSIBLE) aggro at a continental roadside with a rozzer who doesn’t speak English. Sixty quid for the upgrade was a very small percentage of the purchase price, I wasn’t happy about it, but had stuff all choice! 

 

Andy

 

 

 

The Continental rozzer can always be pointed to the statutory plate because that is the only one that he is familiar with anyway. He may be satisfied with what's on a label by the door, but he can chose to ignore it. It may say MTPLM but if he doesn't speak English, he won't know what MTPLM means.

Edited by Lutz

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8 hours ago, Lutz said:

Bailey are very careful to use the term “declared MTPLM” without pointing out that the actual MTPLM is already the higher value and the higher MTPLM is already documented on the existing statutory weight plate.

On a Bailey (Phoenix GT70) where is the statutory plate normally found? I assume it must be in a visible location.

If so not worth paying £60 for a replacement Bailey sticker.

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

Bottom line? I paid for the upgrade to save myself from any (POSSIBLE) aggro at a continental roadside with a rozzer who doesn’t speak English. Sixty quid for the upgrade was a very small percentage of the purchase price, I wasn’t happy about it, but had stuff all choice! 

 

Andy


Same here - I paid £60 for the MTPLM upgrade to match what the locker says (1229kg to 1300kg) to avoid any issues should I be stopped.


However whilst I have never put my van on a weighbridge we don’t have a motor mover, we have an 85Ah battery and when carrying more clothes etc for France only have the canopy (6kg) and no awning (35kg) so I’d be amazed if I’m over the original MTPLM at all.

 

I don’t necessarily agree that this is a B-license issue either - loads of TA vans are 1650kg would be almost impossible to tow inside 3500kg GTW yet still have the same paltry payload as lighter vans. I was talking to a guy in France with an Elddis 8’ van (I think it was the 866), he took it on a weighbridge as it arrived from the factory (plus a battery) and found it was a few kg short of the MTPLM so he quickly got the upgrade!

 

EDIT; link from Bailey looks interesting, I think any Cabrera owners will end up more confused than is necessary!

Edited by FrankBullet

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59 minutes ago, Fenester said:

Is this trend due to manufacturers trying to keep  declared weight down for post 1997 licence holders. ( B + E test)?

Yes and the fact that all the salesmen and clubs use the 85% guidlines. 

By quoting the minimum they pull more cars into the OK to tow with bracket.  If I had a £ for every time I've heard salesmen claiming it was a Rule and 'You can't tow that sir it's too heavy for your car - when it wasn't'  I'd be  lot richer than I am.

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I see they’ve got the Unicorn Cabrera wrong in the table. Upgraded max should be 1550kg not 1500.

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5 minutes ago, Bobsandy said:

I see they’ve got the Unicorn Cabrera wrong in the table. Upgraded max should be 1550kg not 1500.

 

Mates Cabrera is/was plated at 1550 ex factory! 

 

Andy

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I may be a little naughty and ask some of the salesmen at the NEC what upgrades are available.  Any bets on the accuracy of the reply.  :ph34r: :rolleyes:

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7 minutes ago, Bobsandy said:

I see they’ve got the Unicorn Cabrera wrong in the table. Upgraded max should be 1550kg not 1500.


The Cabrera should be on a 1550kg chassis which allows a small upgrade if all of this is used.

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Wow... the standard Cabrera is 1532kg, so you get a whole 18kg!

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I think Coachman must win the award for most expensive (and useless) upgrade. On the new Acadia 545 your £35 gets you 3kg. Needless to say it is off the shortlist!

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Posted (edited)

The so-called “upgrades” aren’t really upgrades at all, but they just bring a label by the door in line with what is there already. A true upgrade requires a technical change to the finished product, like a different axle with a higher rating.

 

Edited by Lutz
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