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david 1220

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Having just read the Caravan club "tow car of the year report" ( & the praise for the Eco jag -- towing a 750 kg van ! ) one is left wondering if the 8 ft wide ,twin axle caravan is going to be the Dinosaur of the caravan world.......

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The Tow car of the year test has to be the biggest joke of the year.   The Jag cannot even tow a decent lightweight proper caravan and the CMC resorted to using a basic trailer.  They also do not make much of the fact that the Jag needs to be re-charged every 100 miles and cost in excess of £65,000.   I doubt very much if the 8' wide twin axle is going to be the dinosaur of the caravan world.  TBH I wondering if there is a bit of envy here?  :D

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Clearly it did well because it was perceived by some as the technology of the future and the way to go!

Maybe, after a few more years development,  a hybrid will come close to a straight IC powered car in a real world comparison. I will however, refrain from holding my breath

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I did think in the category it was an odd choice of winner, whilst it’s to be commended I don’t think it’s a typical sort of vehicle if you own a folding camper for example.

 

Probably works with one of those hideously overpriced Opus things (although they are probably more than 750kg anyway)

 

I think that diesel technology will continue to be popular with large SUV’s for a while so the twin axle behemoth still has some life in it!

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1 hour ago, Stevan said:

Clearly it did well because it was perceived by some as the technology of the future and the way to go!

Maybe, after a few more years development,  a hybrid will come close to a straight IC powered car in a real world comparison. I will however, refrain from holding my breath

 

No need for hybrid the pure EV Tesla Model X can tow 2.250kg and is available now  ... it will however cost a huge amount of money, over £100k  with the larger battery. I suspect we'll be waiting a long time for the economies of scale to reduce the price to anything that is vaguely affordable.  

 

However, EV technology is improving and costs are reducing to the point where MG are offering a pure EV (ZS small SUV style) for £21,995 (after grants) which may start to turn a few more heads. I'm not for a minute suggesting it will be suitable for towing. But it is a practical pure EV at a more modest price than many more EV offerings. 

 

Down here in the south east we have the introduction of the extended ULEZ to (not) look forward to in October next year. It will encompass the area bounded by the North & South Circular roads, that is going to effect a huge number of people, if I've got it right then, for diesels, only Euro6 will escape the charge. I've no doubt some people  maybe  be tempted to look at EV's as way avoid the new charge and try to future proof against further moves against ICE's 

Edited by jetA1
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22 minutes ago, jetA1 said:

 

No need for hybrid the pure EV Tesla Model X can tow 2.250kg and is available now  ... it will however cost a huge amount of money, over £100k  with the larger battery. I suspect we'll be waiting a long time for the economies of scale to reduce the price to anything that is vaguely affordable.  

 

 

Affordability, with or without grants, is an integral part of any real world comparison. 

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3 hours ago, david 1220 said:

Having just read the Caravan club "tow car of the year report" ( & the praise for the Eco jag -- towing a 750 kg van ! ) one is left wondering if the 8 ft wide ,twin axle caravan is going to be the Dinosaur of the caravan world.......

my dealer reckons the  8 ft wide 'vans will be more popular with the folk who prefer seasonal sites / pitches

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Avery good friend of mine ,who has been on the forefront of electric vehicle development , told me the other day that you could have a car that will do 500 miles easy between charges tomorrow , but it would cost 50 grand for a small city car and would be so heavy that the wheels would need to made of steel. He said that until battery tech makes s miraculous changes ...you can forget about the all electric future.

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barrychas;

that reminds me of the early mobile phones that looked like a house brick

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4 hours ago, Durbanite said:

The Tow car of the year test has to be the biggest joke of the year.   The Jag cannot even tow a decent lightweight proper caravan and the CMC resorted to using a basic trailer.  They also do not make much of the fact that the Jag needs to be re-charged every 100 miles and cost in excess of £65,000.   I doubt very much if the 8' wide twin axle is going to be the dinosaur of the caravan world.  TBH I wondering if there is a bit of envy here?  :D

Envy -- will try to remember that as i squeeze down a Cornwall lane & into a 8ft wide gate.....

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Not everybody lives with an 8ft gate ? In our country Caravan manufacturers have been making 8ft vans since the late 60s and still are along with 24 and 26 ft length on twin axles. These are of course towed with proper tow vehicles not , 1600 & 2000cc shopping baskets!

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The electric car concept is going down a bundle in Oz, not. Image living on a farmstead 250km from anywhere on dirt roads that demand a chunky 4x4 and trying to get to the nearest Coles supermarket and back on a charge!

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32 minutes ago, James Donald said:

In our country Caravan manufacturers have been making 8ft vans since the late 60s and still are along with 24 and 26 ft length on twin axles. These are of course towed with proper tow vehicles not , 1600 & 2000cc shopping baskets!

Presumably pollution south of the equator does not affect the ozone layer so EVs are not being promoted (and internal combustion engines taxed off the roads) in the same way as they are here in Blighty :P

My previous 4X4 towcars have had petrol/LPG engines up to 4.7 litre engines, and our current motorhome uses a 6.9 litre ten cylinder lump so we don't all run leisure vehicles in what you describe as "shopping baskets" - but how much longer this will be possible I don't know if the government have their way - despite only using the large engines for limited mileages.

For the record, I'm not in any way opposed to driving more environmentally friendly vehicles, it's just that at the moment such vehicles are not up to the job of towing anything of a reasonable size. My daily drive is a smaller and less polluting LPG powered vehicle, so overall my environmental footprint is not as big as my earlier statement would imply. 

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4 hours ago, jetA1 said:

Down here in the south east we have the introduction of the extended ULEZ to (not) look forward to in October next year. It will encompass the area bounded by the North & South Circular roads, that is going to effect a huge number of people, if I've got it right then, for diesels, only Euro6 will escape the charge. I've no doubt some people  maybe  be tempted to look at EV's as way avoid the new charge and try to future proof against further moves against ICE's 

If that is the case then I probably will never again drive in London. My family hail from Fulham and it's already a nightmare trying to avoid the congestion zone but this is going to push vehicles even further out of the capital and make the alternatives even more unusable than they are now! The days of the private motorcar I fear are numbered!

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5 hours ago, Stevan said:

Affordability, with or without grants, is an integral part of any real world comparison. 

 

Grants in terms of Tesla pricing are a complete irrelevance, they are so expensive that grants are hardly even a drop in the ocean, we all know that, which precisely why I went on to mention the MG. The MG is in no way a tow car, but it is a car that starts to address the affordability issue, a small step in the right direction. As for an affordable pure EV tow car, then I think we'll be waiting a long time. 

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We too read the report and no way are going to either buy a car that expensive nor to tow a 'van that small - though in truth ours isn't much over the Jag's 750KG limit.
And we've been following EV progress with great interest. We still can't run to one, but the fact that this is  getting seriously discussed by the CMHC at all seems like progress - moving the EV's nearer real life, even though they've still got a way to go. The brick mobile phone analogy is spot on, I hope.

We'd love an EV for our 2nd, non-towing car, enabling us to use the diesel less.

Changing things is not going to be comfortable, but Greta Thunberg is right, and if the generations to come - assuming there are many - look back on us not doing enough when the signs are so clear, they're rightly going to hold us in great scorn.

Edited by Richard_Y
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4 hours ago, barrychas said:

Avery good friend of mine ,who has been on the forefront of electric vehicle development , told me the other day that you could have a car that will do 500 miles easy between charges tomorrow , but it would cost 50 grand for a small city car and would be so heavy that the wheels would need to made of steel. He said that until battery tech makes s miraculous changes ...you can forget about the all electric future.

 

Then search using the term 'solid state battery', this technology could well provide the answer to most of the current perceived problems. There is a bit of a standoff regarding investment at the moment but it is the most likely direction of travel. Looks like Toyota may be making a move in this direction.   

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2 hours ago, Gordon said:

If that is the case then I probably will never again drive in London. My family hail from Fulham and it's already a nightmare trying to avoid the congestion zone but this is going to push vehicles even further out of the capital and make the alternatives even more unusable than they are now! The days of the private motorcar I fear are numbered!

 

The current state of affairs is that the ULEZ mirrors the congestion charge zone, move inside the zone with a none ULEZ compliant vehicle and it will cost £12.50 per day on top of the congestion charge. Where the congestion charge is applied at certain times the ULEZ charge is 24/7/365 with no exceptions.  

 

Just to correct something I stated earlier the extension of the ULEZ will take place in October 2021 and not October 2020 as I mentioned earlier. However my comments about the number of people likely to be affected by this still stand, someone who has to commute into the extended ULEZ in a non compliant vehicle will have to pay £62.50 for a typical 5 day working week. The value of non compliant vehicles in the south east will take a real hit.  

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11 minutes ago, Richard_Y said:

 

Changing things is not going to be comfortable,........and if the generations to come - assuming there are many - look back on us not doing enough when the signs are so clear, they're rightly going to hold us in great scorn.

Probably not as much scorn as for the completely ineffective things we spent so much time and money on:-

Using fossil fuel to generate the electricity we run EVs on, simply moving the pollution back to the power stations while still pumping  fossil fuel into aeroplane fuel tanks.

Pricing cars out of London so they clog up the rest of the country.

Pretending that we are saving the oceans by shipping plastics abroad to be thrown in the oceans rather than burying them out of the way in landfill etc.

23 minutes ago, jetA1 said:

 

Then search using the term 'solid state battery', this technology could well provide the answer to most of the current perceived problems. There is a bit of a standoff regarding investment at the moment but it is the most likely direction of travel. Looks like Toyota may be making a move in this direction.   

".....could well provide...." does not appear to have a clear timeline! Imagination dressed up as science! Reminiscent of the claims in the 1950s that nuclear power would result in free electricity. 

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7 hours ago, FrankBullet said:

I did think in the category it was an odd choice of winner, whilst it’s to be commended I don’t think it’s a typical sort of vehicle if you own a folding camper for example.

 

Probably works with one of those hideously overpriced Opus things (although they are probably more than 750kg anyway)

 

I think that diesel technology will continue to be popular with large SUV’s for a while so the twin axle behemoth still has some life in it!

Couldn’t even tow the lowest axle wht version (1050kg) and as quite a few owners tour all across Europe range is a joke.

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2 hours ago, jetA1 said:

 

The current state of affairs is that the ULEZ mirrors the congestion charge zone, move inside the zone with a none ULEZ compliant vehicle and it will cost £12.50 per day on top of the congestion charge. Where the congestion charge is applied at certain times the ULEZ charge is 24/7/365 with no exceptions.  

 

Just to correct something I stated earlier the extension of the ULEZ will take place in October 2021 and not October 2020 as I mentioned earlier. However my comments about the number of people likely to be affected by this still stand, someone who has to commute into the extended ULEZ in a non compliant vehicle will have to pay £62.50 for a typical 5 day working week. The value of non compliant vehicles in the south east will take a real hit.  


Get yourself a V8, my 2003 4.6 litre X5 is ulez compliant 😝

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8 hours ago, joanie said:

barrychas;

that reminds me of the early mobile phones that looked like a house brick

 

Difference being that was in the 80s and now we have phones that weigh a few grams.

Whereas in that time EVs that can match fuel range are as far away as they were when I was 10 that was 1957😂😂

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38 minutes ago, ancell said:

 

Difference being that was in the 80s and now we have phones that weigh a few grams.

Whereas in that time EVs that can match fuel range are as far away as they were when I was 10 that was 1957😂😂

 

Come on now ... you know that simply is not true, EV range may not yet be comparable to equivalent ICE but to say that it has not improved is simply wrong. If you want to make a point then please use facts not outdated opinions. Energy density in EV batteries is certainly no match for fossil fuels, but to say that it hasn't improved since 1957 is simply untrue.  

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15 hours ago, david 1220 said:

Envy -- will try to remember that as i squeeze down a Cornwall lane & into a 8ft wide gate.....

Travelled with our 8' wide caravan in Spain, France and the UK including Cornwall, Devon, Dorset and other counties and have never had an issue whether using a CL or a full blown site!  :)

11 hours ago, Richard_Y said:

Changing things is not going to be comfortable, but Greta Thunberg is right, and if the generations to come - assuming there are many - look back on us not doing enough when the signs are so clear, they're rightly going to hold us in great scorn.

That child is not right about most things and is being manipulated by others who have their own agenda.  I am still waiting for positive proof that mankind is the main contributor to climate change which incidentally has been happening for millions of years. 

Scientists tend to manipulate figures to their own advantage otherwise they will be out of work.  In the past we have been told some many lies by so called scientists and experts that why should we start believing them now? 

I am not saying that we should not take care of the environment, but are mankind solely to blame or is it nature following a normal course of events like it has in the past?  "Climate change" replaced "Global Warming" and now I am wondering what the next "catch phrase" will be?  :D

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7 hours ago, ancell said:

 

Difference being that was in the 80s and now we have phones that weigh a few grams.

Whereas in that time EVs that can match fuel range are as far away as they were when I was 10 that was 1957😂😂

don't kid yourself, we have seen things jump in technology over a few years.  We have had computers since, 1985 commodore 64,  1989 we bought our first proper computer, we had to chose all the parts  and it cost us £1200,  now you can pick up a laptop for £300 and  you even have the computer on your phone and watch ,  with the knowledge they have now it would seem that anything is possible.  Most things I believe come from the knowledge gained  sending rockets to outer space and look how far they travel 

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