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4 minutes ago, Wildwood said:

I have read through this topic and have to say there is a general misunderstanding of the basis of cover and club members do not need to worry. The club have set up a fund to insure members caravans and claims would still be dealt with as before by the same people.  There is no problem with the fund being exhausted by a very bad year as the policy is re insured. This is done by assessing what level of loss the fund can stand and then taking out a policy with a specialist company to cover them if claims exceed this. Effectively the other insurer will cover any claims that then exceed the clubs figure.

Re insurance is standard within the insurance industry and having worked for one of the largest UK insurers who despite a turn over in the billions of pounds still took out this cover. Larger companies use larger figures, but the club will have taken advice from the brokers and others as to where to set the figure, so although it has not been published, as far as I know, it should be no problem.

I would say that all doubts about there being a problem with this method of insurance, which is quite common, with many others doing this, are ill founded. I hope this puts minds at rest on the subject.

The use of the discretionary clause is needed for legal reasons but frankly the idea that they would turn down perfectly valid claims using this is simply not sensible. They have a reputation as the best insurance and are not about to destroy that.

If anyone has doubts about the flood cover then they should take this up with the insurance section to clarify rather than speculate. My feeling is they will take a sensible attitude and only those who are very careless would have  claim turned down. All policies have a reasonable care clause that could be used to turn down flood claims where the policyholder is negligent so do be aware of this.

I agree with most of what you say Wildwood. with one exception, one comment and one additional point. 

The CMCs reputation has been earned over many years when they were not the insurer but a middleman. 

I very much doubt any failure to pay out. The amount however could be the cause of a dispute as with any company. Should this happen I would prefer to have access to FOS.

The point regarding Flood damage is that for a short time CMC was saying that Flood damage in large areas of UK would not be covered on new policies until further notice. With that having been the case I could see no reason to take a new policy. Personally as this only pertained for about three days it seemed a strange move not designed to inspire confidence for any looking for cover at that time.

 

You say 'My feeling is they will take a sensible attitude and only those who are very careless would have  claim turned down.' And I agree with you but my feelings have been wrong on occasion. 

 

Alan

 

2005 Nissan X-trail 4WD diesel and Swift Charisma 540 2012 Lunar Clubman ES  2018 Lunar Clubman ES

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If you don't like it there are plenty of other tracks that you can enjoy rather than moan about this one. Did you have anything to add worth reading? 

It's like listening to a worn out record...

I was just in the process of insuring my new Van and looking at the policy wording on the cmc site. The use of the word discretionary on claim is somewhat alarming. I phoned  a chap at there HQ w

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29 minutes ago, Wildwood said:

The use of the discretionary clause is needed for legal reasons but frankly the idea that they would turn down perfectly valid claims using this is simply not sensible. They have a reputation as the best insurance and are not about to destroy that.

 

 

Why is it needed for legal reasons when other insurance companies don't need it?

 

Discretion comes down to trust - seeing some of the arbitary decisions taken by the Club over the years, some don't trust them!

Edited by Black Grouse

2015 VW Touareg 3. 0 V6 TDI + 2013 Lunar Clubman ES

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4 minutes ago, Black Grouse said:

 

Why is it needed for legal reasons when other insurance companies don't need it?

 

Discretion comes down to trust - seeing some of the arbitary decisions taken by the Club over the years, some don't trust them!

I don't know the answer but I am aware that its is the form of wording used for unregulated insurances provided by mutual insurance companies

Alan

 

2005 Nissan X-trail 4WD diesel and Swift Charisma 540 2012 Lunar Clubman ES  2018 Lunar Clubman ES

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1 hour ago, Wildwood said:

I have read through this topic and have to say there is a general misunderstanding of the basis of cover and club members do not need to worry. The club have set up a fund to insure members caravans and claims would still be dealt with as before by the same people.  There is no problem with the fund being exhausted by a very bad year as the policy is re insured. This is done by assessing what level of loss the fund can stand and then taking out a policy with a specialist company to cover them if claims exceed this. Effectively the other insurer will cover any claims that then exceed the clubs figure.

Re insurance is standard within the insurance industry and having worked for one of the largest UK insurers who despite a turn over in the billions of pounds still took out this cover. Larger companies use larger figures, but the club will have taken advice from the brokers and others as to where to set the figure, so although it has not been published, as far as I know, it should be no problem.

I would say that all doubts about there being a problem with this method of insurance, which is quite common, with many others doing this, are ill founded. I hope this puts minds at rest on the subject.

The use of the discretionary clause is needed for legal reasons but frankly the idea that they would turn down perfectly valid claims using this is simply not sensible. They have a reputation as the best insurance and are not about to destroy that.

If anyone has doubts about the flood cover then they should take this up with the insurance section to clarify rather than speculate. My feeling is they will take a sensible attitude and only those who are very careless would have  claim turned down. All policies have a reasonable care clause that could be used to turn down flood claims where the policyholder is negligent so do be aware of this.

Unfortunately I have to disagree that we should not worry especially as they contradict themselves in the policy booklet and with what you get in the actual documentation.

Like Easy T we have had CMC insurance cover and had no issue however with the Caravan Cover which is not an insurance policy  there are far too many shortcomings for my liking. 

As said they the CMC have been uncompetitive with their quotes which is why the launched this new product calling it Caravan Cover so that they avoid the 12% insurance tax being paid.  In comparison to Towergate without the insurance tax they were still more expensive!

Until they revert to offering a proper insurance policy we will avoid their so called caravan cover as it does not have any track record yet.

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On 19/11/2019 at 15:44, Black Grouse said:

 

Why is it needed for legal reasons when other insurance companies don't need it?

 

Discretion comes down to trust - seeing some of the arbitary decisions taken by the Club over the years, some don't trust them!

Basically setting up a full blown insurance company is expensive so making it a fund with discretion is far cheaper. If it is to survive though they have to follow the cover they offer as if they make any silly decisions it will be on all the forums including their own and will quickly fail. The idea that they will use discretion except on some dubious claims is simply not going to happen.

I agree they have always been expensive, but you were paying for cover and a level of settlement that most others would not match. Having said that I found they got too expensive for me and insured with the C&CC for about £100 less. I have had one claim with them and it was dealt with well although the adjuster they used had nowhere near the expertise that the CAMH one had.

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1 minute ago, Wildwood said:

Having said that I found they got too expensive for me and insured with the C&CC for about £100 less. 

 

Did you have to become a member of C&CC?

Regards, David
Ford Kuga ST line 2ltr. Diesel 2017,  Bailey Pursuit 11 400/2 2018, Emove em303 motor mover, Hyundai 1000i Generator.

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47 minutes ago, David 38 said:

Did you have to become a member of C&CC?


Their website says it’s for members, but the online form allows you to choose non-member … whether that makes a difference to the quote I don’t know.

 

John.

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So did you buy as a member?

If you did the membership fee would reduce your £100 saving.

Regards, David
Ford Kuga ST line 2ltr. Diesel 2017,  Bailey Pursuit 11 400/2 2018, Emove em303 motor mover, Hyundai 1000i Generator.

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4 minutes ago, David 38 said:

So did you buy as a member?

If you did the membership fee would reduce your £100 saving.

 

Only if you joined just for the benefit of the reduction in insurance cost, I would surmise that is not the case for many members.

 

If you joined for other reasons such as the CL Network or the Club Sites then the membership cost has to be spread across all benefits, and you then have to add back in the per night  cost savings you make from being a member.

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1 hour ago, David 38 said:

 

Did you have to become a member of C&CC?

From the FAQ page of Club Care Insurance:

Do I need to be a member of The Camping and Caravanning Club to get a caravan insurance quote?

No, you do not need to be a member of The Club to get a quotation from our insurance arm Club Care Insurance. However being a member you will receive exclusive policy benefits across our range of insurance products. Also, you will benefit from our wide range of premium discounts as well as be part of any promotions that occur through the year.

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I've come across another "discretionary" scheme - my wife's dental insurance Patient Plan Direct will be a discretionary scheme from 1st Jan so maybe this is a growing trend.

2015 VW Touareg 3. 0 V6 TDI + 2013 Lunar Clubman ES

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20 minutes ago, Black Grouse said:

I've come across another "discretionary" scheme - my wife's dental insurance Patient Plan Direct will be a discretionary scheme from 1st Jan so maybe this is a growing trend.

Probably as I think that the legislation for this was only put in place in 2013? 

Alan

 

2005 Nissan X-trail 4WD diesel and Swift Charisma 540 2012 Lunar Clubman ES  2018 Lunar Clubman ES

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1 hour ago, Easy T said:

Probably as I think that the legislation for this was only put in place in 2013? 

 

It is not that long since the government put tax on insurance policies, now does this mean there is legislation to allow this tax to be avoided. If the taxman is going to lose out I could see changes at a future budget.

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4 hours ago, Wildwood said:

 

We were already members of both clubs so it was no problem for me.

I have decided to vote with my feet today. See copy e mail text

 

"to

CMC Re: Club Membership No ….  

I have received my Cover quotation (renewal). I want insurance but as the club management has decided to withdraw insurance, I have to  go elsewhere. It is important to me that you acknowledge I am doing this because I don't want Cover and do want Insurance. Hopefully in the future the club will restore the Caravan Insurance product to all club members. I hope the loss of business caused directly by this club management decision is correctly recorded, and that when the result is visible the management will explain the benefit to the club, and its members.

Please acknowledge. 

Thank you.

Ern

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4 hours ago, Ern said:

I have decided to vote with my feet today. See copy e mail text

 

"to

CMC Re: Club Membership No ….  

I have received my Cover quotation (renewal). I want insurance but as the club management has decided to withdraw insurance, I have to  go elsewhere. It is important to me that you acknowledge I am doing this because I don't want Cover and do want Insurance. Hopefully in the future the club will restore the Caravan Insurance product to all club members. I hope the loss of business caused directly by this club management decision is correctly recorded, and that when the result is visible the management will explain the benefit to the club, and its members.

Please acknowledge. 

Thank you.

Don't hold your breath for a reply ;)

2013(13) Sorento KX2 2. 2 Diesel Manual, (With smelling clutch) Glittering Metal (Metallic Grey) dragging a 2020 Coachman VIP 520 with a Powrtouch Evolution Motor Mover (Towing @ 80. 0%) :)

 

1288275170_2019VIP.jpg.775f2d8ce7b26db242e04a2e77903cd0.jpg

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19 hours ago, Ern said:

I have decided to vote with my feet today. See copy e mail text

 

"to

CMC Re: Club Membership No ….  

I have received my Cover quotation (renewal). I want insurance but as the club management has decided to withdraw insurance, I have to  go elsewhere. It is important to me that you acknowledge I am doing this because I don't want Cover and do want Insurance. Hopefully in the future the club will restore the Caravan Insurance product to all club members. I hope the loss of business caused directly by this club management decision is correctly recorded, and that when the result is visible the management will explain the benefit to the club, and its members.

Please acknowledge. 

Thank you.

 

I understand what you mean but I think you are simply missing the point. The club have set up a fund to cover the claims but at the same time have taken out a policy which covers them if the claims paid exceeds the figure the club feels that they can afford.

Basically still have the security but it is given in a different way. I think too much is being wrongly assumed by people who do not see what is a common route to cut costs as something sinister. It would not worry me and as usual I will check what they are quoting at renewal.

If you go elsewhere be very careful as some of the cheaper policies are no where near the quality of those offered by the clubs.

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There's no security since CMC can decide if they want to pay your claim or not and you can't go to the ombudsman since its not an insurance.

We are with the camping club now and not going anywhere near CMC when our new caravan will need insurance.

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34 minutes ago, Wildwood said:

 

I understand what you mean but I think you are simply missing the point. The club have set up a fund to cover the claims but at the same time have taken out a policy which covers them if the claims paid exceeds the figure the club feels that they can afford.

Basically still have the security but it is given in a different way. I think too much is being wrongly assumed by people who do not see what is a common route to cut costs as something sinister. It would not worry me and as usual I will check what they are quoting at renewal.

If you go elsewhere be very careful as some of the cheaper policies are no where near the quality of those offered by the clubs.

The way I read it is that the policy covers the CMC and not the consumer who has then to start the very lengthy process of a dispute.

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1 hour ago, Wildwood said:

 

I understand what you mean but I think you are simply missing the point. The club have set up a fund to cover the claims but at the same time have taken out a policy which covers them if the claims paid exceeds the figure the club feels that they can afford.

Basically still have the security but it is given in a different way. I think too much is being wrongly assumed by people who do not see what is a common route to cut costs as something sinister. It would not worry me and as usual I will check what they are quoting at renewal.

If you go elsewhere be very careful as some of the cheaper policies are no where near the quality of those offered by the clubs.

After nearly 50 years membership of the club I know club mantra when I see it. If you believe it I don't mind. Meanwhile I have switched to the other club (of which we are also life long members) for our insurance. Oh by the way, its a better policy with a better schedule and over £100 lower price (including IPT).  

Ern

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No brainer then-personally have never found the cmc competitive-their new cover wouldn't stop me if it were but it never is or has been for us and we happily insure with a broker. 

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4 hours ago, Wildwood said:

 

I understand what you mean but I think you are simply missing the point. The club have set up a fund to cover the claims but at the same time have taken out a policy which covers them if the claims paid exceeds the figure the club feels that they can afford.

Basically still have the security but it is given in a different way. I think too much is being wrongly assumed by people who do not see what is a common route to cut costs as something sinister. It would not worry me and as usual I will check what they are quoting at renewal.

If you go elsewhere be very careful as some of the cheaper policies are no where near the quality of those offered by the clubs.

 

4 hours ago, Wildwood said:

I understand what you mean but I think you are simply missing the point.

Hi WW. I think that it is you who are missing the point regarding prospective purchasers concerns. I doubt that any/many are concerned that the club can't pay out. What they are concerned about is in the case of a dispute over payment or the amount thereof. 

Alan

 

2005 Nissan X-trail 4WD diesel and Swift Charisma 540 2012 Lunar Clubman ES  2018 Lunar Clubman ES

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Who's missing the point, if you're happy take out the cover, if not insure elsewhere, personally I have taken the cover, if a claim is honest and straight forward I don't see any problems 

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3 hours ago, mjohns4 said:

Who's missing the point, if you're happy take out the cover, if not insure elsewhere, personally I have taken the cover, if a claim is honest and straight forward I don't see any problems 

Jolly good even if irrelevant as to who is missing the point. 

  • I agree completely 1

Alan

 

2005 Nissan X-trail 4WD diesel and Swift Charisma 540 2012 Lunar Clubman ES  2018 Lunar Clubman ES

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Anyone have a personal pension like a SIPP? Perhaps with a large amount of assets in it?

 

It's not possible to "will" such a fund to a spouse or child in case of death.

 

It is possible to express a wish to the trustees that the fund should benefit particular  individuals. But hey, it's totally discretionary but any SIPP provider who doesn't behave responsibly isn't going to stay in business.

 

Ditto the CMC. I've less concerns with their cover than many of our so called "insurance" companies who use reems of paper to frankly make their own payouts entirely optional.

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