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colin h

CMC Insurance

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I was just in the process of insuring my new Van and looking at the policy wording on the cmc site. The use of the word discretionary on claim is somewhat alarming.

I phoned  a chap at there HQ who said devitt underwrite it but any claim is agreed or not by the executive committee . Pricer wise its there or there about although it does not repatriate a van from abroad although my Volvo assist does so good there.

 

Is this a new thing for CMC

Edited by colin h
spell check is enthusiastic
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6 minutes ago, colin h said:

I was just in the process of insuring my new Van and looking at the policy wording on the cmc site. The use of the word discretionary on claim is somewhat alarming.

I phoned  a chap at there HQ who said devitt underwrite it but any claim is agreed or not by the executive committee . Pricer wise its there or there about although it does not repatriate a van from abroad although my Volvo assist does so good there.

 

Is this a new thing for CMC

Once the so-called Club became a marketing company with only loose connections with caravaning I stopped insuring my caravan with the Club.

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Is the discretionary element not just in relation to making a cash payment rather than fixing an issue? If so that's normal with all insurance.

We insure car and caravan now with CMC and find them competitive and extremely helpful.

 Contrast that with the likes of Safeguard or Caravanguard who appear to subscribe to the current industry standards of "screw your existing customers".

 

Edited by PandR

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CMC does not sell caravan insurance anymore instead they sell their own product where they have discression if they want to settle your claim.

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4 hours ago, AndersG said:

CMC does not sell caravan insurance anymore instead they sell their own product where they have discression if they want to settle your claim.

That does not sound good for the consumer however they are probably still governed by the Ombudsman and if there is a dispute, it is the health of the consumer that will suffer both physically and financially trying to resolve the issue.

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4 hours ago, AndersG said:

CMC does not sell caravan insurance anymore instead they sell their own product where they have discression if they want to settle your claim.

 

No different to any other insurance company then!

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23 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

That does not sound good for the consumer however they are probably still governed by the Ombudsman and if there is a dispute, it is the health of the consumer that will suffer both physically and financially trying to resolve the issue.

They don't sell insurance for caravans so how can you take them to the ombudsman? They make it clear in their terms for caravan cover that they can decide if they want to pay you or not.

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3 minutes ago, AndersG said:

They don't sell insurance for caravans so how can you take them to the ombudsman? They make it clear in their terms for caravan cover that they can decide if they want to pay you or not.

 

Quote

The Caravan and Motorhome Club is a trading name of The Caravan Club Limited which is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority, FCA Register number 311890. Our permitted business is advising and arranging general insurance contracts.  You can check this on the FCA's Register by visiting their website or by contacting the FCA on 0800 111 6768.

 

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They sell insurance for motorhomes but they don't sell insurance for caravans and they don't say that they do.

The terms says it's offered on a discretionary basis and that they will decide on your claim. It also says it's not an insurance and that they are not regulated as an insurance company.

 

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14 minutes ago, AndersG said:

They sell insurance for motorhomes but they don't sell insurance for caravans and they don't say that they do.

The terms says it's offered on a discretionary basis and that they will decide on your claim. It also says it's not an insurance and that they are not regulated as an insurance company.

 

 

Please post the link!

 

Who Regulates the Caravan and Motorhome Club?
Caravan and Motorhome Club is a trading name of The Caravan Club Ltd. which is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) for general insurance mediation and credit activities. Our Financial Services Register number is 311890 and you can check this on the Financial Services Register by visiting https://register.fca.org.uk/ or by telephoning the FCA on 0800 111 6768 or 0300 500 8082.
Is the Caravan and Motorhome Club Covered by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme?
Yes we are covered by the FSCS. You may be entitled to compensation from the scheme if we cannot meet our obligations relating to our insurance and credit activities.
Further information about compensation scheme arrangements is available from the FSCS at www.fscs.org.uk

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Put simply;

Your right to complain

Every effort is made to provide the highest service standards but on occasion you may feel that our service fails to meet the standard you expect.  Should this occur then please contact us as follows:

•Post: Caravan Cover Complaints,

Caravan and Motorhome Club,

East Grinstead

House, East Grinstead,

West Sussex

RH19 1UA.

•Tel: 01342 326944 (9am to 5pm, Mon to Fri).

•Email: cover@CMC.com

.If we cannot settle your complaint with us, or it remains unresolved,you may been titled to refer the matter to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS). Further details of the FOS may be obtained by contacting them on 0800 0234567 or by visiting their website: http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk.The existence of this complaints procedure does not prejudice your right to take legal proceedings.

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This  matter has been explored in depth on the Caravan Club forum and after about 400 postings it seem to me that it boils down to trust. The entire document has had a "search and replace" run over it and all occurrences of "We will pay" have been changed to "We may pay"

As someone with previous experience of a dispute (not insurance) with the CMC  I have gone elsewhere and paid more rather than rely on trust and I am not alone.

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On 25/09/2019 at 17:34, colin h said:

I phoned  a chap at there HQ who said devitt underwrite it but any claim is agreed or not by the executive committee . Pricer wise its there or there about although it does not repatriate a van from abroad although my Volvo assist does so good there.

As far as I am aware Devitt do not underwrite Caravan Cover but act as claims handlers working to CMC guidance. 

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On 26/09/2019 at 11:36, Grandpa Steve said:

Caravan and Motorhome Club is a trading name of The Caravan Club Ltd. which is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) for general insurance mediation and credit activities.


from the document linked to by @colin h above...

 

https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/globalassets/pdfs/caravan-cover/caravan-cover-document.pdf


 

Quote

The discretionary cover we provide is not a contract of insurance, and The Caravan Club Limited is not regulated as an insurance company.


This thread has raised enough uncertainty in my mind that I will likely change my cover (that I have maintained for a least ten years) to a bona fide insurance provider.

 

The ‘insurance’ is, for the last three or four years, the only reason we have kept our membership running too.:angry:

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29 minutes ago, ReggiePerrin said:

This thread has raised enough uncertainty in my mind that I will likely change my cover (that I have maintained for a least ten years) to a bona fide insurance provider.

 

I think the people would be concerned with the statement:- 

 

Quote

We offer cover on a discretionary basis which means that your Executive Committee has sole and absolute discretion on deciding claims and may accept or reject claims in its discretion. It also means that the Executive Committee may, in its discretion, agree a claim which falls outside the terms of the Caravan Cover, or which may even be expressly excluded, if the circumstances warrant it. The discretionary cover we provide is not a contract of insurance, and The Caravan Club Limited is not regulated as an insurance company.

 

However any insurer has absolute discretion on deciding claims and may accept or reject claims in its discretion, so it's no different.

I think it's the fact you have no recourse via the Insurance Ombudsman could be a concern, however I am not concerned enough and I have renewed with the CMC for another year.

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19 minutes ago, Grandpa Steve said:

 

I think the people would be concerned with the statement:- 

 

Quote

We offer cover on a discretionary basis which means that your Executive Committee has sole and absolute discretion on deciding claims and may accept or reject claims in its discretion. It also means that the Executive Committee may, in its discretion, agree a claim which falls outside the terms of the Caravan Cover, or which may even be expressly excluded, if the circumstances warrant it. The discretionary cover we provide is not a contract of insurance, and The Caravan Club Limited is not regulated as an insurance company.

 

However any insurer has absolute discretion on deciding claims and may accept or reject claims in its discretion, so it's no different.

I think it's the fact you have no recourse via the Insurance Ombudsman could be a concern, however I am not concerned enough and I have renewed with the CMC for another year.

 

No disagreement with the above (bold text) but the Caravan Club Ltd (or any company providing 'insurance style' cover entirely in house) may find it's future 'absolute discretion' influenced by commercial considerations.

 

For instance, there may be many claims for flood damage winging their way to caravan insurers and 'cover providers'.  If Caravan Club Ltd take a massive hit this time then it is not inconceivable 'absolute discretion' may be placed under pressure for future claims where conventional insurers have spread their exposure to higher than normal claims.

 

I too have not long renewed but I will leave it run its course.  Living on top of a serious hill and the caravan stored at home, thankfully flooding is not something that will affect me.

 

 

A scene in Worksop - BBC News today

image.png.b8ad629f313bb5adbda7201a8dd1dbb3.png

 

 

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3 minutes ago, ReggiePerrin said:

For instance, there may be many claims for flood damage winging their way to caravan insurers and 'cover providers'.  If Caravan Club Ltd take a massive hit this time then it is not inconceivable 'absolute discretion' may be placed under pressure for future claims where conventional insurers have spread their exposure to higher than normal claims.

 

Again no different to many people that have been hit by floods this year, as any were last year, they too will no-doubt be told that Flood Damage is an exclusion from their cover at the next renewal.

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1 hour ago, Grandpa Steve said:

 

Again no different to many people that have been hit by floods this year, as any were last year, they too will no-doubt be told that Flood Damage is an exclusion from their cover at the next renewal.

 

We were flooded in 2007 and lost our caravan.    CMC paid out with no problems whatsoever and the couple of times I've had to use them,  Devitts have been excellent.

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1 hour ago, Cherokee2015 said:

 

We were flooded in 2007 and lost our caravan.    CMC paid out with no problems whatsoever and the couple of times I've had to use them,  Devitts have been excellent.

Previously we also claim and no issue with payment of the claim.  However it is no longer and insurance policy.  I am wondering if all this flooding will increase claims to the club and if they will continue to pay out no problem.  A lot of caravans will be on the new for old cover.

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Just noticed the following on the CMC site :-

 

"Please note:
Effective as of 2pm, 15 Nov 2019
As a consequence of the extreme weather conditions being experienced across the country, The Club has considered it prudent to implement the following temporary measures, applying only to members purchasing new caravan cover in relation to flood cover. The Club will continue to sell caravan cover but exclude any claims that are caused by or due to flooding where the caravan is stored or located in an area that has been the subject of:

• A severe flood warning
• A flood warning
• A flood alert

(Issued by The Government via any of its agencies*)

In addition the Club will exclude any claim caused by flood damage on any new cover purchased within the following geographical areas; specifically at or near 
South Yorkshire, the Lower River Don Washland
The River Derwent, Derbyshire
The River Trent, Nottinghamshire
In more general terms; South Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and the Midlands.

*The Environment Agency, Gov.UK, Scottish Environment Protection Agency, Natural Resources Wales and Nidirect.gov.uk

The Club will keep these measures under constant review and when the extreme weather conditions abate remove the restrictions."

 

 

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10 minutes ago, AlanS said:

South Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and the Midlands.

 

That's a big area/population to blanket exclude flood cover from.

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Considering that we are just approaching winter and we haven't yet arrived at what  we normally consider to be the wet months, does this mean that caravan cover whether from the CMC or other insurance providers will be difficult or nigh on impossible for some people for some time to come ? What about renewals - will that mean that no insurance for flood damage will be available for some / many ?

Alan

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Slightly alarming. Surely they are bright enough to understand such a public statement will cause alarm. The ' Knock On' will be paying customers voting with their feet. We have our caravan "covered" with them but this thread has spooked me.

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So they do not want to sell 'cover' that might have to pay out. In a few weeks they might be saying they will not cover cold weather/ice/snow anywhere in the UK during winter. Looks as if in a year they will not sell cover any more, nobody will take it out with them.

Edited by Paul1957

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