Al-Ko hitch pads, same problem as Al-Ko brake shoes?

[James Donald]

Hi  just thought I would add this bit , I did a 3000 kilo trip earlier this year and did hear a few groans from the coupling at times. Have since changed the towcar which has a new tow ball . We have just done a 510 kilometer trip with the same Caravan , nothing changed on that and never heard a thing?

[Mr Plodd]

(Non) Update

 

I have yet to hear back from Al-ko in response to my initial email, so I have emailed them again pointing out that they have not answered my query after 7 days and they state their response time is 3-4 working days. 

 

I will I’ll continue to pester them until I get a response, and then I will post it. The cynical part of me suspects they are hoping that by ignoring me I will go away.

 

Fat chance!! 

 

Andy

[JCloughie]

6 hours ago, montesa said:

2. There seems to be also explained about front & rear pads / contact points as well - logical - not just the side ones. Assume the front & rear pads / contact points will also need setting up / shimming ?

 

On the whole I think that your report was quite accurate.  But the front and back pads aren’t shimmed, just changed when they fail the test.

 

Also, the ball, once initially cleaned of paint, don’t need much maintenance,  just a quick clean with white spirit, meths or brake cleaner and a rub with wet and dry if needed.

 

The Reasons for the noise are difficult to pin down.  My present van was quite for the first 3 years.  The engineer put new pads in, still quite including long trip to France.  But it’s recently got very noisy.  Not had time to look at it properly yet.

 

I once had a van which was noisy for the first few hundred yards the fine.  I remember leaving a French site with some tight bends and having lots of people pointing and staring.

 

John

[Mr Plodd]

At last a response from Alko !!

 

 

With reference to the creaking noise, please be advised that it is not possible for AL-KO to definitively diagnose the root-cause of ‘creaking’ remotely.

You are correct to have already tried attending to the stabiliser friction pads (please refer to page 22 of the AL-KO Caravan Chassis Handbook – copy attached).

Other possibilities are as follows but you may need to get your dealer/service centre to assist you with this actions:

Try greasing the overrun system. It could be that a local area in the overrun system has gone dry for some unknown reason (refer to the AL-KO Caravan Chassis Handbook – page 36).

Tightening of the chassis joints can be tried (they should be 85NM) but this is unlikely to resolve a creaking noise (the metal-to-metal joints are not known to make creaking noises).

If none of the above resolves the issue, then it is highly probable that the creak is coming from the floor of the caravan, which is not relevant to AL-KO.

We hope this information assists you.

 

Kind regards

 

Stuart Mead

 

Not the most useful of information eh? 

 

I think it’s probably a “generic” response because they Talk about all of the other possible causes DESPITE me explaining that cleaning the hitch eliminates the noise!

 

I think I might get back to them 

 

Below is my latest email to them.

 

Thanks for the response and the various things you suggest I look at. 

 

It is somewhat difficult to see how tightening the chassis bolts, or greasing the over-run system can possibly make any difference. The reason I say this is because I  did very clearly state in my initial email that cleaning of the hitch ball and de-glazing the pads cures the creaking for a few hundred miles!

 

 I have also tried raising the stabiliser lever when the creaking occurs. That stops it instantly so it’s clearly the friction pads at fault. I am also aware of a number of other caravan owners who are experiencing an identical problem. 

 

This is clearly not an isolated incident and I am sure I am not the first person to have raised it with you. 

 

Perhaps others who have the same problem would like to email Alko??

 

The guys name is Stuart Mead and email address is.

 

mail.uk@alko-tech.com

 

Andy

Edited October 16, 2019 by Mr Plodd

[Mr Plodd]

It gets better!!!

 

 

Possibly your tow-car is diesel? Diesel cars are particularly susceptible to creating stabiliser pad-creak. The exit of the vehicle exhaust can also affect this. With some vehicles, the exhaust fumes seem to flow around and under the caravan but on others, the fumes are more susceptible to flowing in the swirling vortices around the rear of the car.

 

Kind regards

 

Stuart Mead

 

Straws, clutch??

 

Andy

[AlwynMike]

2 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

....

Kind regards

 

Stuart Mead

 

Straws, clutch??

 

 

 

Don't say that!  Clutches create dust too. As for the brakes.......

[Mr Plodd]

4 minutes ago, AlwynMike said:

 

Don't say that!  Clutches create dust too. As for the brakes.......

 

Thought of that, mines an automatic 

 

Andy

[Lozzyf]

Ours are the same .  . . . 

[Mr Plodd]

FURTHER UPDATE

 

After  a few more emails back and forth (the last of which attempted to put the blame on soot particles from my exhaust pipe contaminating the pads , Yes really!!)

 

I have just had a further email stating they are going to send me a set of front and rear friction pads F.O.C. 

 

So if YOUR hitch is creaking and groaning keep on at Alko about it, don’t be robbed off, and hopefully you will get yourself a free set as well. 

 

Oh course there is nothing to say thats going to cure  the problem but they studiously “zig-zagged and made black smoke” every time I asked if the pads had the same friction material as the the (known to be faulty) brake shoes!!

 

Andy

[Les Medes]

Being in Spain when this thread was started by Mr Plod, and not having read every post, I had the same problem last year on the way to Spain but still in the UK, I popped into  the dealer at Hawkinge near Black Horse Farm Site and Mark the owners son helped me out.

 

He popped the pins out on the Hitch, spread a little grease on the shafts and popped them back in, it only took five minutes and I continued my journey to BHF and onwards to Spain the following day,and have not had any problems since and have towed over 3000 miles since the pins were greased

[Mr Plodd]

1 minute ago, Les Medes said:

Being in Spain when this thread was started by Mr Plod, and not having read every post, I had the same problem last year on the way to Spain but still in the UK, I popped into  the dealer at Hawkinge near Black Horse Farm Site and Mark the owners son helped me out.

 

He popped the pins out on the Hitch, spread a little grease on the shafts and popped them back in, it only took five minutes and I continued my journey to BHF and onwards to Spain the following day,and have not had any problems since and have towed over 3000 miles since the pins were greased

 

I might just try that BEFORE fitting the new pads.

 

I am a little surprised because I would have thought if it’s THAT simple to cure the creaking the process would, by now, be very well known AND be well publicised by Alko! 

 

Andy

[JTQ]

22 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

I might just try that BEFORE fitting the new pads.

 

I am a little surprised because I would have thought if it’s THAT simple to cure the creaking the process would, by now, be very well known AND be well publicised by Alko! 

 

Andy

 

Lubricating the rear shank of the side pads is stated in the "Lubrication" section, Under "Important Maintenance and Cleaning",  of the Al-Ko AKS 3004  documentation. They specify " Use multipurpose grease DIN 51825 KTA 3K", [ I suspect a high temperature universal Lithium grease???]

 

Obviously this must get no where near the pad's friction surface. You should be able to download the manual, my copy of it is on our database so not readily or possibly legally publishable.

 

Dampening of high frequency noise from friction pads with a lubricant is quite widely adopted, I recall a tube of "product" being included with disc brake pads on a vehicle I once serviced.

 

Edit: the same lubrication of the side pad shank is still included in a more modern Manual, see here and look at Fig 21 on page 18

 

http://www.al-ko.com/sites/all/modules/handmade_reddot_intergration/reddot_files/za/download/aks3004handbookdigital.pdf

 

 

Edited October 17, 2019 by JTQ

[Les Medes]

9 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

I might just try that BEFORE fitting the new pads.

 

I am a little surprised because I would have thought if it’s THAT simple to cure the creaking the process would, by now, be very well known AND be well publicised by Alko! 

 

Andy

When we were nearing the dealer I said to Senora Medes I think we need new pads, I was very surprised with the outcome and they only charged me a Fiver, I would never in a million years thought of using Grease anywhere near the hitch, a pal of mine whilst in Catalonia on a different site to us rang me and asked for advice on the same problem, he did what I told him and he traveled the 1000 miles home with no creaking or groaning

[Mr Plodd]

I am not doubting the veracity of what is being stated, but.............

 

Why on earth is this seemingly VERY simple “fix” not commonly known in the caravan community? and more importantly why didn’t the manufacture of the hitch (Alko) advise me (and all the others with the same issue) to do exactly that when I first  contacted them, rather than come up with all the “waffle” about chassis bolts and exhaust particulates? 

 

Also why have they NOW kindly decided to supply me with a free set if pads? My suspicious mind tells me they are very well aware there is an issue but try and minimise their financial hit by waffling first and only supplying replacements if the customer (I.e. me!) persists? 

 

Andy

[JTQ]

7 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

I am not doubting the veracity of what is being stated, but.............

 

Why on earth is this seemingly VERY simple “fix” not commonly known in the caravan community? and more importantly why didn’t the manufacture of the hitch (Alko) advise me (and all the others with the same issue) to do exactly that when I first  contacted them, rather than come up with all the “waffle” about chassis bolts and exhaust particulates? 

 

Also why have they NOW kindly decided to supply me with a free set if pads? My suspicious mind tells me they are very well aware there is an issue but try and minimise their financial hit by waffling first and only supplying replacements if the customer (I.e. me!) persists? 

 

Andy

 

Probably they expect people who take on servicing their kit have read the manual and followed it??

And they did not tell you to try that because they reasonably thought the people who service your van would know to do that and had already done that??

 

Me, I have good reason not to trust anyone other than myself when it comes to caravan servicing, it is an industry with a dreadful track record, certainly with me that has been the case together with blatant lying.

 

 

Edited October 17, 2019 by JTQ

[Stevan]

20 minutes ago, JTQ said:

 

Lubricating the rear shank of the side pads is stated in the "Lubrication" section, Under "Important Maintenance and Cleaning",  of the Al-Ko AKS 3004  documentation. They specify " Use multipurpose grease DIN 51825 KTA 3K", [ I suspect a high temperature universal Lithium grease???]

 

Obviously this must get no where near the pad's friction surface. You should be able to download the manual, my copy of it is on our database so not readily or possibly legally publishable.

 

Dampening of high frequency noise from friction pads with a lubricant is quite widely adopted, I recall a tube of "product" being included with disc brake pads on a vehicle I once serviced.

 

Edit: the same lubrication of the side pad shank is still included in a more modern Manual, see here and look at Fig 21 on page 18

 

http://www.al-ko.com/sites/all/modules/handmade_reddot_intergration/reddot_files/za/download/aks3004handbookdigital.pdf

 

 

This fix seems to be remarkably reminiscent of the old practice of smearing the back of car brake pads with a copper based grease! Similar problem, similar cure!

Now unnecessary on many cars because of rubbery anti squeal coatings factory applied to many (most?) brake pads. Should Alko be applying a similar coating to the rear shank of the stabiliser pads?

[Mr Plodd]

6 minutes ago, JTQ said:

 

Probably they expect people who take on servicing their kit have read the manual and followed it??

And they did not tell you to try that because they reasonably thought the people who service your van would know to do that and had already done that??

 

I did repeatedly point out to them that my caravan is only six months old (so would not have been serviced yet)

 

Also there was no mention of taking it to a dealer to have that (simple) process carried out.

 

Ansy

[JTQ]

4 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

 

I did repeatedly point out to them that my caravan is only six months old (so would not have been serviced yet)

 

Also there was no mention of taking it to a dealer to have that (simple) process carried out.

 

Ansy

 

Okay, Andy, perhaps they expect their own factory operatives to follow their procedures 

 

It is a ten minute job to DIY it so worth a try.

 

 

Edited October 17, 2019 by JTQ

[Fireman Iain]

Well, it sounds like a logical idea. I’ll read the link in a bit, but am very tempted to give it a try this afternoon. I’ve got 200 odd miles to tow home tomorrow and the creak from mine drove us nuts on the way down. 

[Tradewinds]

The reason they are saying lubricate the stem of the friction pad is to enable passage through the 'O' ring fitted down the shaft passageway.

If the shaft and 'O' ring are dry, then damage can occur to the 'O' ring and the pad does not locate properly onto the pad base or true to the tow ball resulting in the groaning.

It also makes the pads easy to withdraw for cleaning.

 

[SamD]

2 hours ago, Tradewinds said:

The reason they are saying lubricate the stem of the friction pad is to enable passage through the 'O' ring fitted down the shaft passageway.

If the shaft and 'O' ring are dry, then damage can occur to the 'O' ring and the pad does not locate properly onto the pad base or true to the tow ball resulting in the groaning.

It also makes the pads easy to withdraw for cleaning.

 

 

....additionally, if dry, the stem can pull the O ring out of position and they can be a beggar to re-site.

[Fireman Iain]

On 17/10/2019 at 11:53, Fireman Iain said:

Well, it sounds like a logical idea. I’ll read the link in a bit, but am very tempted to give it a try this afternoon. I’ve got 200 odd miles to tow home tomorrow and the creak from mine drove us nuts on the way down. 

 

I tried a very light smear of grease on the stems, and the result....was a much more peaceful tow home. A couple of very minor squeaks, but the load groaning on every bend, bump, under braking and pulling away has stopped, thankfully. 

 

I really didn’t need anything else winding me up today, it’s taken 7.5 hours to travel a couple of hundred miles, which took barely 4 going down. Don’t you just love Friday traffic?

[weekender]

It would seem such a very small number affected a noisy hitch during towing I would think it's unlikely to be faulty friction material due to the vast numbers with no problems at all.
 Much more likely Alko maintenance advice not followed and by contamination not being removed in the correct way.
   Alko give very clear and precise instructions on this subject, although customer confidence may have taken a knock with brake and axle problems.

[Guest]

Just as I suggested in post 9! https://www.caravantalk.co.uk/community/topic/139247-al-ko-hitch-pads-same-problem-as-al-ko-brake-shoes/?do=findComment&comment=1684866 

Edited October 19, 2019 by Guest

[David 38]

Booked my caravan in for first annual service in January, I mentioned the brake noise to dealer and he as asked me to supply Al-ko axle serial number in advance and he will clear warranty with Bailey prior to that and have got parts in for January.

Where is the Al-ko serial plate please?