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smino0_1

More and More towing at higher speeds

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Whilst i dont want to start a salted or sweet popcorn.I am amazed at the amound of speeding towing,not just caravaners but all type of trailers.The last 3 or 4 outing for us have been with the moho.and we keep to approx 62/63mph as we find it returns good fuel fig.But the amount of items being towed overtaking us is breathtaking.I twin axle van swaying from the middle lane to the slow and middle to the fast,and a good guestimate of 70mph.How are they getting away with it.Or more importantly ,how are they stopping beats me?

And most of the time its on a friday .Are they in such a rush to get thaat Perfect pitch?

Edited by smino0_1

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Why do people break speed limits generally?

As to the question of how they get away with it, I assume that you mean this in respect of stability.

Truth is that the effect of speed on stability is only partially understood. From the studies published by the University of Bath it appears that there is an absolute limit of around 80-90 mph. However, the land speed record for towing a caravan is in excess of 140mph!

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13 minutes ago, smino0_1 said:

Whilst i dont want to start a salted or sweet popcorn.I am amazed at the amound of speeding towing,not just caravaners but all type of trailers.The last 3 or 4 outing for us have been with the moho.and we keep to approx 62/63mph as we find it returns good fuel fig.But the amount of items being towed overtaking us is breathtaking.I twin axle van swaying from the middle lane to the slow and middle to the fast,and a good guestimate of 70mph.How are they getting away with it.Or more importantly ,how are they stopping beats me?

And most of the time its on a friday .Are they in such a rush to get thaat Perfect pitch?

your 62/63 if it is a speedo could be more 56/57 and so your guess at their 70 could be 65.

I use my dash cam as a speedo even past speed cameras, no defence if I'm stopped for speeding but when it shows 60 my analogue speedo is somewhere near the 65 and my digital speedo about 63.

I could be considered speeding when overtaking another outfit that is showing 60 on their speedo.

I am not trying to speed just, trying to tow at the speed limit, 60mph

Whilst there is a 60mph limit, some outfits are steady at 70 while others are very unstable and there is also driver attitude.

 

 

There just is not enough Traffic police to patrol our roads and so the chances of getting stopped are minimal.

 

macafee2

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If they bothered to work out how much time is actually saved by driving at those speeds I am sure they would slow down a bit. Let alone the difference in how much fuel they use! 

 

I remember when we used to drive to Dover for the ferry (God knows why with Poole on our doorstep) ) we would regularly be passed on the motorway by large MH’s as well as caravans that were clearly doing 70+ Only to see them 4 or 5 vehicles ahead of us waiting to board the same ferry as me, so how much time had the saved because “my” ferry left at exactly the same time as theirs did? 

 

Motorway gantry cameras are unable to distinguish between a solo car and a car and caravan, or for that matter a car and a MH, and there are previous few police traffic patrols out there, so they get away with excessive speed UNTIL that is, they meet the caravaners nemesis,............

 

A SNAKE! 

 

Andy 

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1 minute ago, Stevan said:

Why do people break speed limits generally?

As to the question of how they get away with it, I assume that you mean this in respect of stability.

Truth is that the effect of speed on stability is only partially understood. From the studies published by the University of Bath it appears that there is an absolute limit of around 80-90 mph. However, the land speed record for towing a caravan is in excess of 140mph!

 

In stable conditions there may not be an upper limit at all - any practical limit relates to the ability to recover from an external force/disturbance - it's false logic to assume that high speed stability in good conditions makes that high speed safe.

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Think caravan speed limits are set based on being able to stop.

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3 minutes ago, Mr Plodd said:

If they bothered to work out how much time is actually saved by driving at those speeds I am sure they would slow down a bit. Let alone the difference in how much fuel they use! 

 

I remember when we used to drive to Dover for the ferry (God knows why with Poole on our doorstep) ) we would regularly be passed on the motorway by large MH’s as well as caravans that were clearly doing 70+ Only to see them 4 or 5 vehicles ahead of us waiting to board the same ferry as me, so how much time had the saved because “my” ferry left at exactly the same time as theirs did? 

 

Motorway gantry cameras are unable to distinguish between a solo car and a car and caravan, or for that matter a car and a MH, and there are previous few police traffic patrols out there, so they get away with excessive speed UNTIL that is, they meet the caravaners nemesis,............

 

A SNAKE! 

 

Andy 

I think it is psychological, they think they are getting somewhere that much quicker.

 

macafee2

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Are sat nav/dash cam calculated speeds more accurate than vehicle speedometers ?Just seems odd that satellites 12000 miles or more away can be considered to be more accurate than something fastened to the car.

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Folding camper not a caravan and it tows very well at about 65. (Actual not indicated)  Not because it gets me to a site any quicker but because the gearing on the car (Diesel) puts it on maximum torque and it feels very comfortable.  As a bonus it means I can escape from the HGV convoys.

 

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2 minutes ago, Paul1957 said:

Are sat nav/dash cam calculated speeds more accurate than vehicle speedometers ?Just seems odd that satellites 12000 miles or more away can be considered to be more accurate than something fastened to the car.

Without a doubt yes!

Speedometers in cars are allowed to read 10% fast, but 0% slow.

To stay on the right side of the law even if tyre pressures and wear cause differences in rolling diameter of the wheels they are generally set around 5% fast.

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8 minutes ago, Paul1957 said:

Are sat nav/dash cam calculated speeds more accurate than vehicle speedometers ?Just seems odd that satellites 12000 miles or more away can be considered to be more accurate than something fastened to the car.

 

Yes they are generally more accurate - car speedos are dependent on the wheel/tyre diameter which varies slightly by brand and wear - satellite GPS is accurate enough to allow pinpoint targeting of missiles, indeed the accuracy is deliberately reduced for use in car satnavs.

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Also manufacturers deliberately display speeds slightly above the real speed.  A tolerance built in for safety so they cannot break the law.  

 

Edited by Alan Stanley
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13 hours ago, smino0_1 said:

Whilst i dont want to start a salted or sweet popcorn.I am amazed at the amound of speeding towing,not just caravaners but all type of trailers.The last 3 or 4 outing for us have been with the moho.and we keep to approx 62/63mph as we find it returns good fuel fig.But the amount of items being towed overtaking us is breathtaking.I twin axle van swaying from the middle lane to the slow and middle to the fast,and a good guestimate of 70mph.How are they getting away with it.Or more importantly ,how are they stopping beats me?

And most of the time its on a friday .Are they in such a rush to get thaat Perfect pitch?

We tend to stick to about 58mph(satnav) in the UK when towing on a motorway.  Probably makes a slight difference to consumption, but we have the extra when we need to overtake a slower vehicle.  Also a lot more relaxing.  Probably why we enjoy France as we have to stick to 55mph and in Spain it is 50mph.  As said what is the rush unless you are going to miss the ferry.  :D

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I can't say that I've noticed more so than normal , there will always be the reckless drivers on the road  and when they tow caravans they are more noticeable.  I find that when figuring out how long a journey will take towing, I calculate a minute a mile for motorways and 40 miles to the hour on other roads.  Then add another half hour for hold ups etc. not counting any P&T stops. 

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12 hours ago, Eirrab said:

Folding camper not a caravan and it tows very well at about 65.

As a bonus it means I can escape from the HGV convoys.

I used to find that a true 65mph was most comfortable when towing abroad but stick below 60mph in the UK where I can enjoy the full  benefit of the HGV ruts on our major roads! As our MH is similar to many goods vehicle in size, I find that on motorways I tend to set the cruise control to match an HGV that is travelling around 55mph and just enjoy the scenery until reaching our destination. I'm legally limited to 60mph when towing the car and cannot use the outside lane on motorways (the same as for caravans) - and by definition when in the MH, I am on holiday, so what's the rush?

Gordon.

 

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12 hours ago, Eirrab said:

Folding camper not a caravan and it tows very well at about 65. (Actual not indicated)  Not because it gets me to a site any quicker but because the gearing on the car (Diesel) puts it on maximum torque and it feels very comfortable.  As a bonus it means I can escape from the HGV convoys.

 

All trailers are limited to 60mph on dual carriageways and 50mph on single lane roads in the UK so be careful.  I think in France on some motorways you can exceed 60mph.

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I think there was rule for unbraked trailers of 40 mph.

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1 minute ago, David 38 said:

I think there was rule for unbraked trailers of 40 mph.

 

Not ever aware of that, always been 50 for all trailers since 1977 at least! 

 

Andy

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I cannot recall the exact rules now but I do remember being allowed to add a 50mph (white on black) sticker to our caravan to indicate that our outfit complied with rules that allowed us to tow up to 50mph (without the sticker we would have been limited to 40mph)

 

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On 17/09/2019 at 10:41, Mr Plodd said:

 

Not ever aware of that, always been 50 for all trailers since 1977 at least! 

 

Andy

 

All trailers were limited to 40 before it was increased to 50 in the '70s and 60 in the '80s - I seem to recall it was even lower before WW2.

 

 

On 17/09/2019 at 11:06, Gordon said:

I cannot recall the exact rules now but I do remember being allowed to add a 50mph (white on black) sticker to our caravan to indicate that our outfit complied with rules that allowed us to tow up to 50mph (without the sticker we would have been limited to 40mph)

 

The trailer's gross weight mustn't exceed the car's kerbweight (ie 100% ratio), both must be externally marked with their respective weights and the 50 sticker applied to the trailer - otherwise was still 40.

Edited by Black Grouse

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2 hours ago, Durbanite said:

All trailers are limited to 60mph on dual carriageways and 50mph on single lane roads in the UK so be careful.  I think in France on some motorways you can exceed 60mph.

I ‘m well aware of the speed limits but very much doubt I’ll ever get booked.  Think the trailers behind works Transits, boat trailers and especially the jet skis on trailers that overtake me at over 70 are far more likely to get a ticket

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On 16/09/2019 at 20:45, David 38 said:

Think caravan speed limits are set based on being able to stop.

 

No, it's because every outfit has a threshold speed above which it won't recover from induced instability without some sort of active intervention, either on the part of the driver or of an electronic system on the towing vehicle or trailer or both. Depending on whether a frictional stabiliser is fitted or not, this threshold speed (for a caravan) is normally somewhere between 50 and 65mph.

Braking distance towing a heavy trailer is obviously going to be more than solo, although the difference is not so great in dry road conditions, more so in the wet. This means that the higher the weight ratio the bigger the demands on the driver's due care and attention.

 

On 17/09/2019 at 12:07, Black Grouse said:

 

The trailer's gross weight mustn't exceed the car's kerbweight (ie 100% ratio), both must be externally marked with their respective weights and the 50 sticker applied to the trailer - otherwise was still 40.

 

 

Where did you get that information from? I can't find any corresponding reference in current UK legislation. Weights are never displayed externally on cars and not always on trailers, either.

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Someone should tell the French.  The number of times I have been in a car or on a bike at 80mph and then overtaken by a car towing a caravan doing over 100mph. First time I was shocked but after a while I got use to it. 

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37 minutes ago, Eirrab said:

I ‘m well aware of the speed limits but very much doubt I’ll ever get booked.  Think the trailers behind works Transits, boat trailers and especially the jet skis on trailers that overtake me at over 70 are far more likely to get a ticket

Getting done for speeding is a bit like a cross between a lottery and Russian roulette!

 

2 minutes ago, Lutz said:

 

No, it's because every outfit has a threshold speed above which it won't recover from induced instability without some sort of active intervention, either on the part of the driver or of an electronic system on the towing vehicle or trailer or both. Depending on whether a frictional stabiliser is fitted or not, this threshold speed (for a caravan) is normally somewhere between 50 and 65mph.

 

That's one theory, the other is that every outfit has a critical speed at which stability is at its lowest. So far as has been published, very little work has been done to identify which theory is correct.

Certainly, on the road it does not matter much because of the danger around driving at, or near, this threshold or critical speed.

It may account though for some of the extremes of speeding because they have passed through the critical speed into relative stability again. Pity that at some point they will have to drive through the critical speed again when they come to slow down!

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5 minutes ago, Ex-Gasman said:

Someone should tell the French.  The number of times I have been in a car or on a bike at 80mph and then overtaken by a car towing a caravan doing over 100mph. First time I was shocked but after a while I got use to it. 

 

Wow!  Really!  Incredible. 

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