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Weight Plate Upgrade

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Took the plunge at the recent Lawns Show & ordered the new Acadia 575

 

Just been looking through the options available & noticed the weight plate upgrade

 

Has anyone done this? Not sure what the point is, can someone enlighten me?

 

Many thanks

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From what I understand it allows you to legally carry more weight in the van, but exactly what it entails i.e. upgraded suspension etc, I have no idea.

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6 minutes ago, daveat92 said:

From what I understand it allows you to legally carry more weight in the van, but exactly what it entails i.e. upgraded suspension etc, I have no idea.

 

I asked the same on a facebook page. Apparently only the plate gets changed, no mechanical upgrades at all. Users can have another 50KG on the rating. TBH the whole thing baffled me, but that's not difficult.

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if you want to carry more weight in your 'van , i.e. more than the payload of 155kg, then you would ask the dealer for a weight plate upgrade,  you are then given a certificate stating the change and also your sticker is changed to reflect the weight change.  You will have to find out how much extra weight is allowed and it will cost you £35.

We had the upgrade as when we had the motor mover and the ATC added that was 40kg. to be taken out of the payload. You then have to add everything that you would put into the 'van or take the 'van fully loaded to a weigh bridge. It will probably surprise you . 

Before you do this check your driving licence and your car weight.

Edited by joanie

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3 minutes ago, Dave Capiro owner said:

 

I asked the same on a facebook page. Apparently only the plate gets changed, no mechanical upgrades at all. Users can have another 50KG on the rating. TBH the whole thing baffled me, but that's not difficult.

So, it appears to simply be a rip off.

 

To the OP, why not ask exactly what you get for the extra money demanded, above and beyond the simple task of changing the plate?

 

And in practice, putting more weight inside the van is not that clever anyway - keep it (do you REALLY need it?) in the car.

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9 minutes ago, joanie said:

if you want to carry more weight in your 'van , i.e. more than the payload of 155kg, then you would ask the dealer for a weight plate upgrade,  you are then given a certificate stating the change and also your sticker is changed to reflect the weight change.  You will have to find out how much extra weight is allowed and it will cost you £35.

We had the upgrade as when we had the motor mover and the ATC added that was 40kg. to be taken out of the payload. You then have to add everything that you would put into the 'van or take the 'van fully loaded to a weigh bridge. It will probably surprise you . 

We have had weight upgrades on previous caravans and have never ever got a certificate stating the change.  All they have supplied is a new sticker.  Peel off the old one and replace it with the new one.

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Durbanite  ;  we had a certificate  on this 'van although I haven't on previous 'vans. 

daveat92 ; It isn't a rip off if you need it, apparently  although the axle will take the upgrade, the makers use a lower weight so that people can use a smaller car to tow it. This goes back to the change in car  and towing licences.

  Folk are not always able to put extra weight in the car , as cars also have a weight plate to adhere to and also they may not have the room to put the extra's. 

PWoodley ; On this forum  if you search  'payloads 'you will find other threads on here that you may find interesting.

Edited by joanie

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If you do the weight plate upgrade when the caravan is ordered it might not cost anything.  The caravan MIRO will not change, just the MTPLM will increase which will allow a higher payload so unless you put more things in the caravan to use the extra payload, you will still be towing the same weight.

 

It does impact though on your tow car towing ratio and driving licence if you passed your test after 1997 and the car gross weight and caravan MTPLM weights then go above 3500 kg when you would need to pass a towing test.

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As said, if you order a weight upgrade when ordering a new van then it's usually free of charge.  After delivery it'll cost. The charge varies depending on brand, but it's usually about £60, which gets you a new weight certificate and a sticker with the higher weight on it.

 

If you think about it manufacturer's sell their vans with the lightest possible weight limit, as increasing numbers of owners have driving licences with a low weight limit. By selling the van with the lowest possible weight limit they increase their chances of more sales.

 

To arrive at the lightest weight limit possible they take the van's nominal empty weight (MIRO) and add the payload allowance. This is usually the amount specified under the NCC's minimum payload formula, which uses the length and number of berths to calculate the payload. The NCC's formula dates back decades and doesn't allow for a motor mover, or the bigger batteries commonly fitted these days. It was introduced to create a level playing field on payloads and to stop manufacturer's trying to quote tiny payloads to try and entice inexperienced owners. Note that it's a 'minimum' formula and that means manufacturer's are at liberty to provide more, but for competitive reasons they always use the minimum allowed. 

 

As you can imagine, caravan MIRO's are usually going to be an odd number of kg, as is the minimum payload figure. When they're added together to make the van's MTPLM, it's v likely the total will be an odd, rather than round number. Now axles tend to be available in 50kg or 100kg units and unless the MTPLM is v v close to the 50kg or 100kg point the caravan manufacturer will always fit an axle at the next 50kg or 100kg point above the MTPLM.

 

So if your MTPLM is, say 1405kg, then you'll have either a 1450kg or 1500kg axle and the difference between MTPLM and axle limit will be available as an upgrade, with absolutely no mechanical changes. In the above case the upgrade will be either 45kg or 95kg depending on the axle used. However if the MTPLM is, say, 1396kg and the van has a 1400kg axle fitted, it's probable that the manufacturer will not offer an upgrade as it's so close to the axle limit already.

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Bailey charge £60 for a sticky plate and certificate to carry 60 kg more on my caravan.

Old label won't come off so stuck new one on top.

I think it a rip off.

 

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24 minutes ago, David 38 said:

Bailey charge £60 for a sticky plate and certificate to carry 60 kg more on my caravan.

Old label won't come off so stuck new one on top.

I think it a rip off.

 

 

Try warming the old sticker with a hair drier.  I've removed originals and carefully saved them in case next owner wants the lighter plate.   

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Well if he wants to revert back just the latest to take off and old one will be revealed.

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If the caravan is new or less than a few years old the uprated MTPLM will be found on the official weight plate in the gas locker. My U4 Seville was 1326Kg on the label near the door but the plate in the gas box was 1450Kg and that was what the upgrade gave! Note however that the axle limit is also 1450Kg so there is no headroom and weighing is a must.

For the record Bailey charge you £66 even if the upgrade is part of the order as it is a dealer task, Its not just a label change, they also have to update the Certificate of Conformity and they also have to notify CRiS. Why they charge when Swift(?) do it f.o.c. if included in the order baffles me.

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As Woodentop says, the MTPLW is on a separate plate inside the locker box, I wish I had seen it before buying the weight upgrade because it was the higher upgrade weight on the locker label, identical to the weight stated on the new upgrade label.

when you think about it, if you were pulled up and weighed, you could show the locker plate and that should be the end of it, but I think it would be worth pursuing to find out before being dogmatic about this.

BTW. I would like to know how Squash managed to remove his sticker intact as when I peeled mine off the printing came away from the backing leaving it totally unusable.

no way could that sticker be used again. Or maybe it is only Coachman that have this type of label?.......Peter

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This was investigated with Bailey at some length by Andy (Mr Plodd). As far as I remember from what became a lengthy thread, the upshot was that the door sticker would be the one used as the definitive plate by authorities.

1 hour ago, peterjohn said:

when you think about it, if you were pulled up and weighed, you could show the locker plate and that should be the end of it, but I think it would be worth pursuing to find out before being dogmatic about this.

 

 

Edited by Fireman Iain

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21 hours ago, joanie said:

Durbanite  ;  we had a certificate  on this 'van although I haven't on previous 'vans. 

daveat92 ; It isn't a rip off if you need it, apparently  although the axle will take the upgrade, the makers use a lower weight so that people can use a smaller car to tow it. This goes back to the change in car  and towing licences.

  Folk are not always able to put extra weight in the car , as cars also have a weight plate to adhere to and also they may not have the room to put the extra's. 

PWoodley ; On this forum  if you search  'payloads 'you will find other threads on here that you may find interesting.

Perhaps there are two certificates?  One for a weight adjustment to validate the high charge and another the CoC?

I don't think there is any mention of weight on the "Certificate of Conformity" which is the one that allows it to be on the road.  Mine is in our caravan so cannot check.

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For what its worth ...

 

I feel most UK Caravans have a silly initial low minimal payload to kid & mis-lead the public.  If your Licence  / outfit max weight limits will stand it i'd upgrade as a safety net if check weighed - they do !

 

We did the upgrade - Elddis = f.o.c.  & no mods done just a sticker change.

Think it was 1463kgs to  now 1500kgs.

When very light loaded, little clothing or food on board, we visited a weighbridge and our van was already 1460kgs.

 

From a previous slight overloading  issue with a light hgv there was then a bit of tolerance with the authorities but your Caravan Dealer / Builder will likely enjoy rejecting any relevant claim if your considered to be overloading !  

 

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33 minutes ago, Durbanite said:

Perhaps there are two certificates?  One for a weight adjustment to validate the high charge and another the CoC?

I don't think there is any mention of weight on the "Certificate of Conformity" which is the one that allows it to be on the road.  Mine is in our caravan so cannot check.

I don't know either but I expect some bright soul will come up with the answer

 

 

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1 minute ago, joanie said:

I don't know either but I expect some bright soul will come up with the answer

 

 

The mandatory C of C ( which actually most caravan manufacturers do not seem to issue as a matter of course as trailers aren't registered) contains figures for MRO, MTPLM, Actual Mass , Mass on each axle, Nose weight or S value, mass of options etc etc.

 

 

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5 hours ago, montesa said:

For what its worth ...

 

I feel most UK Caravans have a silly initial low minimal payload to kid & mis-lead the public.  If your Licence  / outfit max weight limits will stand it i'd upgrade as a safety net if check weighed - they do !

 

We did the upgrade - Elddis = f.o.c.  & no mods done just a sticker change.

Think it was 1463kgs to  now 1500kgs.

When very light loaded, little clothing or food on board, we visited a weighbridge and our van was already 1460kgs.

 

From a previous slight overloading  issue with a light hgv there was then a bit of tolerance with the authorities but your Caravan Dealer / Builder will likely enjoy rejecting any relevant claim if your considered to be overloading !  

 

A manufacturer is likely to publish a low mass figure as this generally increases the amount of people able to tow this trailer.

However they have to do this, as unlike the MRO which is allowed to have a range the MTPLM has to be specific for an actual TYPE VARIANT and VERSION.  

This means a figure has to be included in the Type approval documents for each additional mass, and that as such means a different version code.

Multiple versions and the many permutations thereof are a real headache to manage for manufacturers (and homologation people) and so usually a manufacturer will offer just one standard and where possible one upgrade.

Although the manufacturers don't often issue the C of C they do have to control a unique copy which is retained on a database and that cannot be amended. When you take a weight upgrade a new C of C then has to be added to that database. By rights the owner should be contacted and asked to sign to show either why a duplicate or amended C of C has been requested, although because we dont have registration in the UK (yet) that rarely happens.

 

The statutory plate whilst only a sticker has to have its issue and destruction strictly controlled. Again in other countries it's more rigorously controlled, but even here where the plates were sent and when etc still has to be controlled.

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5 hours ago, Towtug said:

The mandatory C of C ( which actually most caravan manufacturers do not seem to issue as a matter of course as trailers aren't registered) contains figures for MRO, MTPLM, Actual Mass , Mass on each axle, Nose weight or S value, mass of options etc etc.

 

 

I think that the Certificate of Conformity that is being referred to here is the NCC one that confirms compliance with certain industry standards, not the Certificate of Conformity to type approval requirements which you mean.

One needs to distinguish between these two certificates as the NCC one serves no legal purpose.

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15 minutes ago, Lutz said:

 

I think that the Certificate of Conformity that is being referred to here is the NCC one that confirms compliance with certain industry standards, not the Certificate of Conformity to type approval requirements which you mean.

One needs to distinguish between these two certificates as the NCC one serves no legal purpose.

Correct I was referring to the CoC issued by the NCC to the manufacturer.  I have never seen any other sort CoC.

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It sounds like TT has provided an answer that has puzzled me for years.

 

I've never seen a formal Type Approval CofC for a UK built caravan, only the Certificate that confirms that the caravan complies with NCC standards, which aren't legal regulations. I guess there must be some sense in not issuing the legally binding CoC required by Type Approval and it may be because UK vans aren't registered, but I'm not sure of the logical route to that result.  

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10 minutes ago, Steamdrivenandy said:

It sounds like TT has provided an answer that has puzzled me for years.

 

I've never seen a formal Type Approval CofC for a UK built caravan, only the Certificate that confirms that the caravan complies with NCC standards, which aren't legal regulations. I guess there must be some sense in not issuing the legally binding CoC required by Type Approval and it may be because UK vans aren't registered, but I'm not sure of the logical route to that result.  

 

You're probably right because you do need the official CoC to register a caravan in those countries where they are registered.

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17 minutes ago, Steamdrivenandy said:

It sounds like TT has provided an answer that has puzzled me for years.

 

I've never seen a formal Type Approval CofC for a UK built caravan, only the Certificate that confirms that the caravan complies with NCC standards, which aren't legal regulations. I guess there must be some sense in not issuing the legally binding CoC required by Type Approval and it may be because UK vans aren't registered, but I'm not sure of the logical route to that result.  

It is quite possible that you never see the C of C for a new car also. Manufacturers issue the C of C electronically to their dealers, they then use this info to apply for the first time registration, the info on the C of C being used to populate the V5c. 

The logical conclusion of most trailer manufacturers is that in the UK there is no final use of the C of C information by a statutory body as there is no registration requirement. If you take a larger O3 or O4 trailer there is a requirement to register and therefore manufacturers have to issue a C of C

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