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Essential habitation equipment payload

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Hi,

 

Can anyone tell me what Sprite/Swift cover under 'essential habitation equipment payload'? The handbook doesn't mention it but says "the MRO includes an allowance for gas, the electric hook up, cables as well as the fluids and liquids required for normal caravan operation". 

 

However, the specification book lists the MRO and essential habitation weights separately so now I'm confused as to what comes under what?!

 

Thanks

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They have different payloads but they all come out of the caravan payload in the end .

 

 

 

Dave

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Ours is a 2010. 

 

Trouble is not knowing what comes out of what means I might end up double counting it, or not counting it if its something I've considered as factory fitted but actually needs to be considered separetely.

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34 minutes ago, joanie said:

what year is your  caravan as the miro changed in 2011 and again in 2015

 

 https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/caravans/articles/practical-advice/caravan-weight-loading-to-be-legal

 

 

 

Strictly speaking, MIRO, never really changed in principle. With every amendment, MIRO was simply defined more specifically.

 

The 1992 definition was simply:

'Mass of the vehicle in running order' means the mass of the vehicle with bodywork in running oder (sic) (including coolant, oils, fuel, spare wheele (sic),tools and driver).         (Source: 92/21/EEC)

 

The 1997 definition was a bit more specific:

'Mass of the vehicle in running order' means the mass of the unladen vehicle with bodywork, and with coupling device in the case of a towing vehicle, in running order, or the mass of the chassis with cab if the manufacturer does not fit the bodywork and/or coupling device (including coolant, oils, 90%fuel, 100% other liquids except used waters, tools, spare wheel and driver (75kg), and, for buses and coaches, the mass of the crew member(75kg) if there is a crew seat in the vehicle).         (Source: 97/27EC)

 

The current 2012 version states:

‘mass in running order’ means

 

(a) in the case of a motor vehicle:

 

the mass of the vehicle, with its fuel tank(s) filled to at least 90 % of its or their capacity/ies, including the mass of the driver, of the fuel and liquids, fitted with the standard equipment in accordance with the manu­facturer’s specifications and, when they are fitted, the mass of the bodywork, the cabin, the coupling and the spare wheel(s) as well as the tools;

 

(b) in the case of a trailer:

 

the mass of the vehicle including the fuel and liquids, fitted with the standard equipment in accordance with the manufacturer’s specifications, and, when they are fitted, the mass of the bodywork, additional coup­ling(s), the spare wheel(s) and the tools;         (Source: 1230/2012/EC)

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Posted (edited)

Bailey don’t include a leisure battery in their MIRO 

 

BUT., ..........

 

in the handbook it says

“Do not operate this caravan without a leisure battery”???????

 

So that’s about 25kg off the already meagre 155kg payload! But of course you  can PAY for an uprated MTPLM (about 50kg) if you wish sir!   :wub: 

Add a motor mover and that’s  the upgrade gobbled up entirely,  no-one wants to manhandle a tone and half of Caravan do they?

 

Neither do they include flush tank water or the contents of the hot water heater, that’s  a further  18kg  gone! 

 

Andy

Edited by Mr Plodd

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1 hour ago, Mr Plodd said:

Bailey don’t include a leisure battery in their MIRO 

 

BUT., ..........

 

in the handbook it says

“Do not operate this caravan without a leisure battery”???????

 

So that’s about 25kg off the already meagre 155kg payload! But of course you  can PAY for an uprated MTPLM (about 50kg) if you wish sir!   :wub: 

Add a motor mover and that’s  the upgrade gobbled up entirely,  no-one wants to manhandle a tone and half of Caravan do they?

 

Neither do they include flush tank water or the contents of the hot water heater, that’s  a further  18kg  gone! 

 

Andy

To say nothing of the tiny 'Gas' allowance.  Weight  is by far the biggest bone of contention across all makes.  One cause being the outdated 85% advice ( note advice not a rule)  

 

So customer A.  His cars 85% advice says 1500 kgs.  His car is plated for say 1800 kgs.  He picks out a van that he likes.  It weighs in at 1350 kgs with a max of 1500 kgs.   Dealer promptly checks Towsure or similar advisory program. vans max is O.K. for his car.  Smiles all round.

 

Identical van still weighing 1350kgs empty, but with an axle to take say 1700 kilos max.  Oh you can't possibly tow that van sir it's far to heavy for your car. 

 

An correct answer would be Yes you can tow that sir but please be aware of the fact, it will if loaded to 1700 kgs be close to your cars maximum.  Then give the Caravans Club maximum advice.

 

 But the manufacturers will not market the vans with that amount of payload because the salesmen / Caravan Club / Idiot in the bar say you 'can't tow it with your car'.   Result loss of sale,  add in the Driving licence (sometimes) weight restrictions and the whole thing is a farce.

 

What it means in the real world is a high proportion of vans being taken out overloaded and illegal.

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15 hours ago, Mr Plodd said:

Bailey don’t include a leisure battery in their MIRO 

 

BUT., ..........

 

in the handbook it says

“Do not operate this caravan without a leisure battery”???????

 

So that’s about 25kg off the already meagre 155kg payload! But of course you  can PAY for an uprated MTPLM (about 50kg) if you wish sir!   :wub: 

Add a motor mover and that’s  the upgrade gobbled up entirely,  no-one wants to manhandle a tone and half of Caravan do they?

 

Neither do they include flush tank water or the contents of the hot water heater, that’s  a further  18kg  gone! 

 

Andy

The upgrade plate wasn't offered to me at the time of sale, it wasn't until I was reading the handbook when we got home that I saw the difference.   Whereas  we used to empty any water and claim that weight as part of our payload we now couldn't do that. We weighed everything in the caravan and found that we were very near the max. That's when I did a lot of reading  to find out what was what. We then ordered the weight upgrade at a cost, of course. The reason they don't push the upgrade , I was told is so that they can keep the weight down so as more cars are able to tow it. 

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2 hours ago, joanie said:

The reason they don't push the upgrade , I was told is so that they can keep the weight down so as more cars are able to tow it. 

 

Spot on!

 

My cars MTPLM is 2100Kg.

My caravans “off the forecourt” MTPLM is 1397kg

 

So the combined  MTPLM of my car + caravan is 3497kg (so you wouldn’t need a B+E licence because it doesn’t exceed 3500kg) 

 

However having paid for the weight upgrade to 1450kg (a whole 53kg and £60) the rigs MTPLM now comes to 3547kg so DOES require a B+E licence.

 

It just annoys me that, even from new, the manufacturers have the gall to charge extra for a weight upgrade. They have to produce a certificate of conformity and plate for every new caravan so why, if specified at the point of ORDERING can they justify charging for something they must produce anyway?? Grrrrrr

 

To quote Steve Wright from many years ago....

 

”It makes me SO angry, I could THROW the phone down” 

 

Andy

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breathe Andy, breathe..... When we had a Swift some years ago we ordered the weight upgrade at the same time as ordering the 'van and didn't have to pay for the upgrade. I think that the salesman told me the same for Bailey, however as I wanted it after he put the order in, I had to pay. I didn't have a choice as I wanted peace of mind. Considering  the upgrade consists of a sticker and a sheet of paper, it does seem, no it is over priced at £60. The don't have to change anything , apart from the sticker , nor do they have to make any additions or changes to the axle. Easy money I think for the caravan makers.

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Posted (edited)

I actually contacted Bailey the day after I placed the order with the dealers (NEC in October) delivery wasn’t scheduled until April. 

 

They STILL insisted on charging me £60 for the upgrade. 

 

In the scale of things sixty quid is a tiny percentage of the capital cost, but it’s PRINCIPLE that annoys me, not that I can do anything about it of course (and the manufacturers know it!

 

Even WITH the weight upgrade, and VERY careful selection of what goes into the caravan I am still perilously close to the MTPLM. 

 

OK! Breathing in, breathing out, breathing in............and caaalm!!

 

Andy

Edited by Mr Plodd
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Posted (edited)

Our caravan MTPLM is 1499 kg, it could be upgraded to 1500 kg so Elddis must think there are lots of 2000 kg cars about although any at that weight are likely to be well above the 85%. Its MIRO is mentioned in the handbook and sales brochure as it is supplied from the factory so excludes the battery but they say it includes an allowance for gas and water. There is also a tolerance for material differences so it could actually weigh something else.

Edited by Paul1957

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MR. Plod. I think that the request for an upgrade has to be written on the order form  to have it for nothing.

Paul 1957.  if you read my first post in this thread you'll see that the rules changed in 2011 & 2015.

Isn't it about time the clubs, NCC and caravan manufactures  got together with the government for a change in the law re. payloads. I know some folk say to put the stuff in the car, but cars also have weights to bide by.

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My 2018 lunar has an allowance of 10kg for battery. My battery weight is 25kg 

there is provision for two gas bottles, even got auto switching regulator, but they only allow 8kg for gas. At that size, it would probably use one cylinder of gas per cup of tea

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14 minutes ago, Lost in the wilderness said:

My 2018 lunar has an allowance of 10kg for battery. My battery weight is 25kg 

there is provision for two gas bottles, even got auto switching regulator, but they only allow 8kg for gas. At that size, it would probably use one cylinder of gas per cup of tea

 

10kg for battery ?

https://www.lunarcaravans.com/help/frequently-asked-questions

 

Dave

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Posted (edited)

What annoys me most of all is that manufacturers have the cheek to charge for a so-called 'upgrade' when the very same caravan was already type approved at the higher MTPLM in the first place and there is no need to upgrade because no technical modification is necessary to achieve that higher MTPLM. It's sheer exploitation of the customer.

Besides, If there is a higher maximum technically permissible laden mass then, by definition, unless accompanied by a change in configuration, the lower value can’t be a maximum.

Edited by Lutz
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On 19/08/2019 at 18:15, Lutz said:

The current 2012 version states:

‘mass in running order’ means

 

(a) in the case of a motor vehicle:

 

the mass of the vehicle, with its fuel tank(s) filled to at least 90 % of its or their capacity/ies, including the mass of the driver, of the fuel and liquids, fitted with the standard equipment in accordance with the manu­facturer’s specifications and, when they are fitted, the mass of the bodywork, the cabin, the coupling and the spare wheel(s) as well as the tools;

 

(b) in the case of a trailer:

 

the mass of the vehicle including the fuel and liquids, fitted with the standard equipment in accordance with the manufacturer’s specifications, and, when they are fitted, the mass of the bodywork, additional coup­ling(s), the spare wheel(s) and the tools;         (Source: 1230/2012/EC)

Would that include the weight of a full 40l onboard water tank or a full 10l hot water boiler which is part of the ALDE system?

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1 hour ago, Durbanite said:

Would that include the weight of a full 40l onboard water tank or a full 10l hot water boiler which is part of the ALDE system?

 

That would be my understanding, yes. I can't see anything in the definition that would suggest otherwise.

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BTW the caravan in question is a 2010 model so was built before the changes to the MIRO i.e. what is included in the MIRO and what is not.  The owner's manual should state what is in the MIRO and what isn't.  I don't think gas bottles were included in the MIRO for a 2010 model. 

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On 21/08/2019 at 10:43, Lutz said:

 

That would be my understanding, yes. I can't see anything in the definition that would suggest otherwise.

 

On 21/08/2019 at 09:34, Durbanite said:

Would that include the weight of a full 40l onboard water tank or a full 10l hot water boiler which is part of the ALDE system?

The fresh water isnt considered essential for 1230/2012 but the contents of a wet heater would be.

If the vehicle is NCC approved they specify their own version of MRO which includes water , gas and EHU cable. The NCC MRO figure is then invariably higher than the EWVTA figure.

 

In both cases though MRO + PAYLOAD cannot  exceed MTPLM.

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Bailey SPECIFICALLY state that “their” MIRO does NOT include flush tank or hot water heater!  (Truma not Alde)

 

Andy

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